Thoughts on U. Wisc. Madison (for out of state student)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"BS...there are a hell of a lot more UVA grads in front office wall-street positions or strategy consulting positions than UW-Madison alums."

Uh, and this is supposed to be a good thing?

In my career, I have worked with a number Wall Street bankers and strategy consultants and have come to the conclusion that if they are supposed to be Masters of the Universe, it must be of some incredibly small, make-believe one. Each time, I'm impressed less and less with their "insight" and advice. Not much added value. However, they are very good at putting together project schedules and PowerPoints. One reason why this country has been on the skids for some time is that we produce many more self-styled "financial engineers" than engineers.

This may be true, but a kid can go to either UW or UVA and yet not end up in finance or consulting.

of course, that's the case even if you go to Harvard, princeton or wharton but if you want maximize your chances at those options then it behooves you to know which schools have stronger recruiting and pipelines or these programs.

and to be honest finance and strat consulting popularity and strength is less about the actual job as it is the exit options.

if you want to work in corp dev (internal m&a), corp strat, etc in industry (any industry) the teams that get some of the highest visibility to the c-suite at a relatively young age then top finance and consulting really helps. It can knock years off the normal grind/progression in your career.

that's why it is a 'good thing'. these jobs provide a different level of 'access' to certain industry side jobs that happen to have interesting work, high visibility, and incubators of future leaders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does it compare to Indiana University or university of Illinois?

Very favorably in all the academic measures quantified by national lists (US news being the most infamous of this type)

Not on the radar of the Whitman crowd though. Indiana sounds "Midwestern."' Madison evokes lakes and adorableness and not farming -- so it is acceptable to people from the east coast, and in particular, Jews and self-described intellectual parents. That's not an anti-Semitic swipe: try an experiment today. Ask a practicing Jewish parent which school they'd pick for their teen, Ohio State or UWisc? Uillinois or UWisc? UKansas or UWisc? Even U Minnesota vs U Wisconsin, and they're about two feet away from each other and "ranked" about the same.

This experiment would probably work with any parents in Bethesda and Ward 3, of any faith. For some reason, Wisconsin gets a pass on the "flyover country farm boy hicks evangelical" perception. Maybe it's the lakes and the fact that there is a sailing team. Hm.

According to the College Bound article in the September-October Bethesda Magazine, 36 applied to U of W-M and 17 accepted from Whitman. Illinois-20 applied 14 accepted and Indiana 44 applied and 36 accepted from Whitman.

It would seem that the Whitman crowd is open to the midwest schools.

This is in the current issue of Bethesda Magazine

Whitman grad here - there are always a large number of kids that go to Wisconsin from Whitman (same with MI, IL, IN, etc) - there are around 450-500 or so seniors each year, and 95% or more go to 4 year colleges (similar types of stats in many of the local big high schools). Coming from an East Coast bias, Wisconsin is typically viewed as a tier a little below UVA and MI, but on par with the other BIG Midwestern schools (and very different than a small liberal arts school, although I know lots of students who applied to a range of different types of schools since you don't necessarily know where you'll thrive and many feel the pressure to try to get into a school they feel is as prestigious as possible - whether that is a healthy thing or not is another issue). Of course, in the Midwest itself, they would have their own feelings of how schools compare - and you get many of the most elite students from that area of the Midwest who go to Wisconsin (similar to how in Texas, a large set of the "best" students who stay in state and go to UT without thinking of going to a Coast). Every college and university has some stronger depts and facilities etc than others - but are generally fine across the board and many don't know what they want to major in before they actually go to school (although of course some do). Everyone I know who went to WI seemed to like it - one consideration is that if kids go to school in the Midwest, they may settle in the Midwest after college - although I do also know many who moved back.

I don't think anyone disputes that UVA is perceived above UW within the DMV bubble, but outside the bubble it's not close. Consider this: Wisconsin probably draws more DMV students each year than UVA has drawn from Wisconsin + Illinois + Minnesota (the upper Midwest) in its entire existence. UVA is not well known at all in the upper Midwest, where Wisconsin is under appreciated in the DMV, but certainly known. Internationally, it's not even close.

UVA OOS is a lot harder to get into than UW-M oos. that's why uva is also half the size.

2. I highly doubt internationally this is true. I am willing to bet there are more uva alums in london for instance than UW (ateast on linkedin this is true, just looked it up). and UVA is HALF the size of UW-M in ug population. There is probably more UW-M grads in asia but not at a greater rate than the difference in the class sizes between the two. There's more uva grads in sao paulo than uw-m according to linkedin.

3. i would say it is the whole north east bubble not DMV. And the 95 corridor happens to have boston, philly dc, nyc....still the economically most powerful region in the country and one of the most economically powerful strips of region in the world.

[Anonymous]

Easy to get caught up in ranks and college status mentality. Try to resist. I'd focus on your important characteristics for example - fit (vibe and size of classes, school and college town,, department strength if child has known interest) and encouraging your kid to work hard, enjoy and explore wherever they attend.
I attended university of Wisconsin Madison (after high school in Illinois). My brother attended university of Illinois and liked it. After visiting both campuses, I felt Illinois seemed a kinda conservative campus environment. Madison was a better match for me.
I got university housing and liked it, though seemed majority were in state WI students. Lots of my Illinois friends got private dorms, which tend to be more homogeneous around wealth and a region (North Chicago suburbs, NY, DC etc) .
Am not a drinker or pot smoker, but found plenty of great people and activities.
Good luck! Sounds like your child has some good options to consider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does it compare to Indiana University or university of Illinois?

Very favorably in all the academic measures quantified by national lists (US news being the most infamous of this type)

Not on the radar of the Whitman crowd though. Indiana sounds "Midwestern."' Madison evokes lakes and adorableness and not farming -- so it is acceptable to people from the east coast, and in particular, Jews and self-described intellectual parents. That's not an anti-Semitic swipe: try an experiment today. Ask a practicing Jewish parent which school they'd pick for their teen, Ohio State or UWisc? Uillinois or UWisc? UKansas or UWisc? Even U Minnesota vs U Wisconsin, and they're about two feet away from each other and "ranked" about the same.

This experiment would probably work with any parents in Bethesda and Ward 3, of any faith. For some reason, Wisconsin gets a pass on the "flyover country farm boy hicks evangelical" perception. Maybe it's the lakes and the fact that there is a sailing team. Hm.

According to the College Bound article in the September-October Bethesda Magazine, 36 applied to U of W-M and 17 accepted from Whitman. Illinois-20 applied 14 accepted and Indiana 44 applied and 36 accepted from Whitman.

It would seem that the Whitman crowd is open to the midwest schools.

This is in the current issue of Bethesda Magazine

Whitman grad here - there are always a large number of kids that go to Wisconsin from Whitman (same with MI, IL, IN, etc) - there are around 450-500 or so seniors each year, and 95% or more go to 4 year colleges (similar types of stats in many of the local big high schools). Coming from an East Coast bias, Wisconsin is typically viewed as a tier a little below UVA and MI, but on par with the other BIG Midwestern schools (and very different than a small liberal arts school, although I know lots of students who applied to a range of different types of schools since you don't necessarily know where you'll thrive and many feel the pressure to try to get into a school they feel is as prestigious as possible - whether that is a healthy thing or not is another issue). Of course, in the Midwest itself, they would have their own feelings of how schools compare - and you get many of the most elite students from that area of the Midwest who go to Wisconsin (similar to how in Texas, a large set of the "best" students who stay in state and go to UT without thinking of going to a Coast). Every college and university has some stronger depts and facilities etc than others - but are generally fine across the board and many don't know what they want to major in before they actually go to school (although of course some do). Everyone I know who went to WI seemed to like it - one consideration is that if kids go to school in the Midwest, they may settle in the Midwest after college - although I do also know many who moved back.

I don't think anyone disputes that UVA is perceived above UW within the DMV bubble, but outside the bubble it's not close. Consider this: Wisconsin probably draws more DMV students each year than UVA has drawn from Wisconsin + Illinois + Minnesota (the upper Midwest) in its entire existence. UVA is not well known at all in the upper Midwest, where Wisconsin is under appreciated in the DMV, but certainly known. Internationally, it's not even close.

UVA OOS is a lot harder to get into than UW-M oos. that's why uva is also half the size.

2. I highly doubt internationally this is true. I am willing to bet there are more uva alums in london for instance than UW (ateast on linkedin this is true, just looked it up). and UVA is HALF the size of UW-M in ug population. There is probably more UW-M grads in asia but not at a greater rate than the difference in the class sizes between the two. There's more uva grads in sao paulo than uw-m according to linkedin.

3. i would say it is the whole north east bubble not DMV. And the 95 corridor happens to have boston, philly dc, nyc....still the economically most powerful region in the country and one of the most economically powerful strips of region in the world.

Virginia (28%) does have a slightly lower OOS student % than Wisconsin (32%)
http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/11/19/looking-for-an-out-of-state-public-university
But the difference would be the demographic break down of the OOS students. I can’t find the statistics to back this up, but I suspect that Wisconsin draws a lot of students from far away” – which for Madison, WI means California and the East Coast. Wisconsin is definitely a “blue state” school and I’d be surprised if they drew many than a handful of students from the southern “red states.” Virginia does draw from the East Coast – especially the mid-Atlantic and southern red states, but it doesn’t seem to have the national reach of Wisconsin and Michigan. I know that when I was in the Midwest UVA had nowhere near the name recognition that Wisconsin has in the DMV. Obviously bigger schools = more alum = more name recognition, but I also think that attracting a nationwide student body is more important for a large school in a comparatively small state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does it compare to Indiana University or university of Illinois?

Very favorably in all the academic measures quantified by national lists (US news being the most infamous of this type)

Not on the radar of the Whitman crowd though. Indiana sounds "Midwestern."' Madison evokes lakes and adorableness and not farming -- so it is acceptable to people from the east coast, and in particular, Jews and self-described intellectual parents. That's not an anti-Semitic swipe: try an experiment today. Ask a practicing Jewish parent which school they'd pick for their teen, Ohio State or UWisc? Uillinois or UWisc? UKansas or UWisc? Even U Minnesota vs U Wisconsin, and they're about two feet away from each other and "ranked" about the same.

This experiment would probably work with any parents in Bethesda and Ward 3, of any faith. For some reason, Wisconsin gets a pass on the "flyover country farm boy hicks evangelical" perception. Maybe it's the lakes and the fact that there is a sailing team. Hm.

According to the College Bound article in the September-October Bethesda Magazine, 36 applied to U of W-M and 17 accepted from Whitman. Illinois-20 applied 14 accepted and Indiana 44 applied and 36 accepted from Whitman.

It would seem that the Whitman crowd is open to the midwest schools.

This is in the current issue of Bethesda Magazine

Whitman grad here - there are always a large number of kids that go to Wisconsin from Whitman (same with MI, IL, IN, etc) - there are around 450-500 or so seniors each year, and 95% or more go to 4 year colleges (similar types of stats in many of the local big high schools). Coming from an East Coast bias, Wisconsin is typically viewed as a tier a little below UVA and MI, but on par with the other BIG Midwestern schools (and very different than a small liberal arts school, although I know lots of students who applied to a range of different types of schools since you don't necessarily know where you'll thrive and many feel the pressure to try to get into a school they feel is as prestigious as possible - whether that is a healthy thing or not is another issue). Of course, in the Midwest itself, they would have their own feelings of how schools compare - and you get many of the most elite students from that area of the Midwest who go to Wisconsin (similar to how in Texas, a large set of the "best" students who stay in state and go to UT without thinking of going to a Coast). Every college and university has some stronger depts and facilities etc than others - but are generally fine across the board and many don't know what they want to major in before they actually go to school (although of course some do). Everyone I know who went to WI seemed to like it - one consideration is that if kids go to school in the Midwest, they may settle in the Midwest after college - although I do also know many who moved back.

I don't think anyone disputes that UVA is perceived above UW within the DMV bubble, but outside the bubble it's not close. Consider this: Wisconsin probably draws more DMV students each year than UVA has drawn from Wisconsin + Illinois + Minnesota (the upper Midwest) in its entire existence. UVA is not well known at all in the upper Midwest, where Wisconsin is under appreciated in the DMV, but certainly known. Internationally, it's not even close.

UVA OOS is a lot harder to get into than UW-M oos. that's why uva is also half the size.

2. I highly doubt internationally this is true. I am willing to bet there are more uva alums in london for instance than UW (ateast on linkedin this is true, just looked it up). and UVA is HALF the size of UW-M in ug population. There is probably more UW-M grads in asia but not at a greater rate than the difference in the class sizes between the two. There's more uva grads in sao paulo than uw-m according to linkedin.

3. i would say it is the whole north east bubble not DMV. And the 95 corridor happens to have boston, philly dc, nyc....still the economically most powerful region in the country and one of the most economically powerful strips of region in the world.

Virginia (28%) does have a slightly lower OOS student % than Wisconsin (32%)
http://www.usnews.com/education/articles/2009/11/19/looking-for-an-out-of-state-public-university
But the difference would be the demographic break down of the OOS students. I can’t find the statistics to back this up, but I suspect that Wisconsin draws a lot of students from far away” – which for Madison, WI means California and the East Coast. Wisconsin is definitely a “blue state” school and I’d be surprised if they drew many than a handful of students from the southern “red states.” Virginia does draw from the East Coast – especially the mid-Atlantic and southern red states, but it doesn’t seem to have the national reach of Wisconsin and Michigan. I know that when I was in the Midwest UVA had nowhere near the name recognition that Wisconsin has in the DMV. Obviously bigger schools = more alum = more name recognition, but I also think that attracting a nationwide student body is more important for a large school in a comparatively small state.

acceptance rates are deceiving. Chicago had 30+% acceptance rates as recently as early 2000's....it was still a tough school to get into due to self selecting population.

I would be curious as to the median 25-75% stats of OOS UVA acceptances vs. OOS UW-Mad acceptances.

I would also be interested in the yield and at the 25-75% stats of the OOS attendees of the two schools. My hypothesis is that the OOS student body at UVA is stronger (just a hypothesis).

[Anonymous]

You can’t compare the scores 25/75 of schools that are not about the same size. Here’s why: schools admit from the top down. In rough numbers UVA has 14K undergrads and Wisconsin has 28K undergrads. I’d wager that the top half (14K) of Wisconsin’s undergrads have better stats than the top 14K of Virginia’s undergrads (essentially all of the undergrads). Simply put, larger schools attract more top students AND more mediocre students.

[Anonymous]

It’s actually easy to make a mathematical comparison in this case because Madison is twice the size of UVA (28K v. 14K, rough numbers).

Among 28K undergrads, the 75% is the student who has 7,000 students more qualified (by score).

Among 14K undergrads, the student who has 7,000 students more qualified (by score) is the 50%.

Compare the 75% of Madison to the 50% of UVA. Apples to Apples.

75% of ACT scores for Wisconsin Madison = 30
http://collegeapps.about.com/od/state-act-scores/a/wisconsin-colleges-act-scores.htm

Average ACT score of UVA = 29
http://colleges.findthebest.com/q/4437/2550/What-is-the-average-ACT-score-at-University-of-Virginia-UVA

One factor to consider is that Wisconsin students are second (only to Minnesota) in ACT scores: http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/wisconsin-ties-for-second-nationally-in-act-test-scores-b9980125z1-220432501.html so the higher in state scores are a factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s actually easy to make a mathematical comparison in this case because Madison is twice the size of UVA (28K v. 14K, rough numbers).

Among 28K undergrads, the 75% is the student who has 7,000 students more qualified (by score).

Among 14K undergrads, the student who has 7,000 students more qualified (by score) is the 50%.

Compare the 75% of Madison to the 50% of UVA. Apples to Apples.

75% of ACT scores for Wisconsin Madison = 30
http://collegeapps.about.com/od/state-act-scores/a/wisconsin-colleges-act-scores.htm

Average ACT score of UVA = 29
http://colleges.findthebest.com/q/4437/2550/What-is-the-average-ACT-score-at-University-of-Virginia-UVA

One factor to consider is that Wisconsin students are second (only to Minnesota) in ACT scores: http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/wisconsin-ties-for-second-nationally-in-act-test-scores-b9980125z1-220432501.html so the higher in state scores are a factor.

Honestly, the biggest factor that would push me to UVA would be the 4 year graduation rate, 87% vs 53%. That's a huge difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s actually easy to make a mathematical comparison in this case because Madison is twice the size of UVA (28K v. 14K, rough numbers).

Among 28K undergrads, the 75% is the student who has 7,000 students more qualified (by score).

Among 14K undergrads, the student who has 7,000 students more qualified (by score) is the 50%.

Compare the 75% of Madison to the 50% of UVA. Apples to Apples.

75% of ACT scores for Wisconsin Madison = 30
http://collegeapps.about.com/od/state-act-scores/a/wisconsin-colleges-act-scores.htm

Average ACT score of UVA = 29
http://colleges.findthebest.com/q/4437/2550/What-is-the-average-ACT-score-at-University-of-Virginia-UVA

One factor to consider is that Wisconsin students are second (only to Minnesota) in ACT scores: http://www.jsonline.com/news/education/wisconsin-ties-for-second-nationally-in-act-test-scores-b9980125z1-220432501.html so the higher in state scores are a factor.

Honestly, the biggest factor that would push me to UVA would be the 4 year graduation rate, 87% vs 53%. That's a huge difference.

holy shit why is it so low at UW-Madison?

even PSU-University Park has a higher 4 year grad rate.

[Anonymous]

Current McLean resident Dick Cheney is a UW-Madison alum. Both of his daughters were born in Wisconsin....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Current McLean resident Dick Cheney is a UW-Madison alum. Both of his daughters were born in Wisconsin....

Charles Robb earned his degree there as well. You could swing by his house in McLean and feel him out on his alma mater too

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Current McLean resident Dick Cheney is a UW-Madison alum. Both of his daughters were born in Wisconsin....

He is a Wyoming alum, but was a grad student and TA at Madison. http://www.waxingamerica.com/2006/09/dick_cheneys_ma.html

[Anonymous]

Do grads mainly end up in the Midwest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do grads mainly end up in the Midwest?

Maybe, but it's a big school that draws lots of coasties. As a result, there are large contingents of Wisconsin alums in many major cities, including DC, NY, LA and SFO. My BIL teaches at an Ivy, but did a post-doc at Wisconsin and looooved it. He and SIL would go back in a heartbeat if the opportunity came up.

[Anonymous]

Mentioning UVA and UW-Madison in the same sentence is absurd when it comes to undergrad. Go to UVA.