How do I know if I am middle class?

[Anonymous]

I keep coming back to this forum because it never ceases to amaze me that DCUMers who spend $30K on preschool and $4 on an organic peach can say "we're not rich" with a straight face.

Do you ever leave your leafy little neighborhoods and actually see how the vast majority of people -- even in this wildly wealthy region of the country -- live???

I hope there is reincarnation and you are reborn "middle class." You won't last a minute.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep coming back to this forum because it never ceases to amaze me that DCUMers who spend $30K on preschool and $4 on an organic peach can say "we're not rich" with a straight face.

Do you ever leave your leafy little neighborhoods and actually see how the vast majority of people -- even in this wildly wealthy region of the country -- live???

I hope there is reincarnation and you are reborn "middle class." You won't last a minute.

Agreed. I want to think they're just trolling, but something tells me they're really that much of a totally ignorant ass.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How funny that people think the US doesn't have a social definition of class, too.

Honey Boo Boo and the Jersey Shore people make more money than I do. But I hardly think anyone would define them as upper class, even if the numbers say they are doing quite well.

If they're making a couple hundred thousand dollars a year, I would most definitely classify them as "upper class." Maybe not classy, but unhesitatingly upper class.

Sorry, that's dead wrong. What are they, the Beverly Hillbillies?

[Anonymous]

OP, how could you possibly have grown to adulthood without discussing this with your parents and figuring this out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you go on vacation, do you stay at the Ritz, a Comfort Inn or a Howard Johnson?

Comfort Inn, but I'm upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:above 100k below 450k

Absolutely not. In the DC area, I'd say middle class would be maybe 40-50K

Really? I agree pretty much agree with PP except I'd drop the low end to $80k - $275k. Of course this entire thread is subjective and how one defines middle income. I make $200k have two DCs under 4 (relevant because child care costs directly affect disposable income available) and think we fall in upper middle income for the area.

At 200k, you make more than over 95% of people in the United States. That is not even close to "middle class."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

So who buys all those $375 pieces of clothing in Georgetown?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The failure of people who make 200k, 500k, etc to realize they are rich, is exactly the reason why we have such income disparity in the United States. Holy shit. Holy cognitive dissonance.

We make $430K. We are well off, but we are not rich because we work two full time jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I keep coming back to this forum because it never ceases to amaze me that DCUMers who spend $30K on preschool and $4 on an organic peach can say "we're not rich" with a straight face.

Do you ever leave your leafy little neighborhoods and actually see how the vast majority of people -- even in this wildly wealthy region of the country -- live???

I hope there is reincarnation and you are reborn "middle class." You won't last a minute.

When you're reincarnated as "rich" and get to spend 7 years in school after high school, let us know how many minutes you last. Oh yeah, the 60 or 70 hour work weeks for 30 years too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The failure of people who make 200k, 500k, etc to realize they are rich, is exactly the reason why we have such income disparity in the United States. Holy shit. Holy cognitive dissonance.

We make $430K. We are well off, but we are not rich because we work two full time jobs.

That is approximately FIVE TIMES the median income in the area. You are rich. You are upper class. You are in amazing denial.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you go on vacation, do you stay at the Ritz, a Comfort Inn or a Howard Johnson?

Westin only for me. Where do I fit into the hotel test?

I think middle because we have W, Westin, and then Aloft.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:HHI is 230k. After 2 daycare expenses, a mortgage underwater, student loans- I'm definitely middle class in this area.

No, you're not. Middle Class is based on HHI -- not on the choices you made/make (i.e. to have 2 kids, to buy the house you bought, to take on the debt you took on).

In fact, many middle class families in the area don't even own a house because they couldn't afford to do so.

You make more than double the median salary for the region. You don't think people making $80k have expenses (childcare, mortgage, student loans)?

Wrong. Class is based on much more than income. It is also based on your level of education, your parents' level of education, your life style choices, your manners and your taste. Income is only part of socio-economic class.

No, when we're talking about middle class in terms of economics and we're talking about the U.S., we're talking HHI. It doesn't matter what education, lifestyle choices or manners are. We're talking cold hard numbers.

A guy with a high school diploma who likes NASCAR but makes some savvy business decisions, combined with luck, and manages to own a successful company, pulling in a high salary may seem "low class" to you but would still be upper class if his salary fit the definition.

We're not talking about the British, turn of the century concept of class and lineage.

Not true. Class is determined by more than just income. Education, job, etc all goes into class. Unlike GB, you can actually move among the classes here.

Yes, true. If we're discussing class from an ECONOMICS perspective, it is determined by HHI. Period. Economists don't factor in what jobs people have, especially given that in one household, one spouse could have a blue collar job while the other had a white collar job. Economists look at HHI. Period.

It just so happens that HHI is usually correlated with education (i.e. higher HHI usually means a higher level of education). But it's the HHI that really is the determining factor in whether an economist calls you middle class.

Neither of my parents have a college degree, but because they worked hard, they fit pretty firmly into upper middle class.

In GB, people can move around among the classes from an economists' perspective. It's from a social perspective that it's harder to "fit in." But that's a different type of class discussion altogether.

But when we are talking about whether someone in the U.S. is middle class, upper class, et cetera, we're talking about HHI and wealth (i.e. they may not have a high income, but have inherited money, et cetera). We are essentially talking about money.

Class is not an economic measurement. It is a social one.

It is socio-economic. But in the U.S., it is most definitely defined by income and wealth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I keep coming back to this forum because it never ceases to amaze me that DCUMers who spend $30K on preschool and $4 on an organic peach can say "we're not rich" with a straight face.

Do you ever leave your leafy little neighborhoods and actually see how the vast majority of people -- even in this wildly wealthy region of the country -- live???

I hope there is reincarnation and you are reborn "middle class." You won't last a minute.

When you're reincarnated as "rich" and get to spend 7 years in school after high school, let us know how many minutes you last. Oh yeah, the 60 or 70 hour work weeks for 30 years too.

Ummm you are not special. Do you know how many people work 60-70 hour weeks just for the basics? And I mean basics as in food, water, shelter, and maybe a little for a rainy day after they've paid down their student loans- not new cars, retirement, college savings, etc Plenty of people go to school too and still make meager wages so give a rest doc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:above 100k below 450k

Absolutely not. In the DC area, I'd say middle class would be maybe 40-50K

WRONG. Look up the section 8 income limits for Fairfax:

For a family of 4 (which is probably the demographic on this site):

Extremely low income: 32K and under
Very Low Income: 53K max
Low Income: 70K max

You have not even begun to graze the middle with your estimate of "middle".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:above 100k below 450k

Absolutely not. In the DC area, I'd say middle class would be maybe 40-50K

Really? I agree pretty much agree with PP except I'd drop the low end to $80k - $275k. Of course this entire thread is subjective and how one defines middle income. I make $200k have two DCs under 4 (relevant because child care costs directly affect disposable income available) and think we fall in upper middle income for the area.

At 200k, you make more than over 95% of people in the United States. That is not even close to "middle class."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

So who buys all those $375 pieces of clothing in Georgetown?

Well, DUH, the poster is comparing Boise Idaho to Washington DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The failure of people who make 200k, 500k, etc to realize they are rich, is exactly the reason why we have such income disparity in the United States. Holy shit. Holy cognitive dissonance.

We make $430K. We are well off, but we are not rich because we work two full time jobs.

That's rich. You are in denial or extremely ignorant. I'm not sure which.