How do I know if I am middle class?

[Anonymous]

We recognize we are very well off, but not rich in the common understanding of that word as portrayed in movies and on TV.

Ah, but do you recognize the difference between fiction and fact?

[Anonymous]

The failure of people who make 200k, 500k, etc to realize they are rich, is exactly the reason why we have such income disparity in the United States. Holy shit. Holy cognitive dissonance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The failure of people who make 200k, 500k, etc to realize they are rich, is exactly the reason why we have such income disparity in the United States. Holy shit. Holy cognitive dissonance.

Seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we need another category, something between middles class and rich. Upper middle class does not cut it because everyone is fighting over what makes up the "middle".

Our HHI is $300K+, two working parents. We have a small amount of debt in addition to our mortgage but all student debt is paid off and we are on track to eliminate all non-mortgage debt within the year. We live in a small, not updated, close in house in DC with a good school district. We expect to finally be able to update our house in the next year or so once (1) non-mortgage debt is gone, and (2) our youngest starts K and there is no more private preschool/daycare bill. We can afford to eat mostly organic, take occasional vacations, drive decent cars that we keep for about 10 years, and we will ensure that our children have excellent educational options and can attend the best college for them that they get into. We are saving for retirement. We usually drive over flying when traveling because of cost but we will stay in nice hotels because we like them. We recognize we are very well off, but not rich in the common understanding of that word as portrayed in movies and on TV. We do not make financial decisions without thinking them through. We get upset when there is a problem with the a/c or roof or something else because such expenses are a big deal to us.

So, what is the name for this category that does not (1) insult people that are struggling financially because it understates how well off a HH is as compared to the country and the world or (2) overstate how well off a HH is in its day to day experience of life and relative to the truly wealthy.

The name is upper class on a scale of lower/middle/upper.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The failure of people who make 200k, 500k, etc to realize they are rich, is exactly the reason why we have such income disparity in the United States. Holy shit. Holy cognitive dissonance.

This is such an astute observation. I completely agree.

[Anonymous]

I notice at the top of the page a button for "Nanny Forums" that appear heavily traficked. It seems this is where the middle class DCUMs discuss issues related to the management of domestic servants.

BWAHAHA.

Garrison Keillor would have a field day with us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My take: If you have most if not everything you NEED, can take care of some WANTS occasionally, yet everyone you know still has more than you.

This is perfect!! And absolutely true. The tricky part is identifying what you NEED vs. what you want. Some might think a new car after 5 or 7 years is a need, others (like me) think it's a want. Some might think new clothes every year or season is a need, others may think it's a want. But I love the definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we need another category, something between middles class and rich. Upper middle class does not cut it because everyone is fighting over what makes up the "middle".

Our HHI is $300K+, two working parents. We have a small amount of debt in addition to our mortgage but all student debt is paid off and we are on track to eliminate all non-mortgage debt within the year. We live in a small, not updated, close in house in DC with a good school district. We expect to finally be able to update our house in the next year or so once (1) non-mortgage debt is gone, and (2) our youngest starts K and there is no more private preschool/daycare bill. We can afford to eat mostly organic, take occasional vacations, drive decent cars that we keep for about 10 years, and we will ensure that our children have excellent educational options and can attend the best college for them that they get into. We are saving for retirement. We usually drive over flying when traveling because of cost but we will stay in nice hotels because we like them. We recognize we are very well off, but not rich in the common understanding of that word as portrayed in movies and on TV. We do not make financial decisions without thinking them through. We get upset when there is a problem with the a/c or roof or something else because such expenses are a big deal to us.

So, what is the name for this category that does not (1) insult people that are struggling financially because it understates how well off a HH is as compared to the country and the world or (2) overstate how well off a HH is in its day to day experience of life and relative to the truly wealthy.

How about affluent? To me it implies that someone is well off but not Bill Gates/Warren Buffett/celebrity levels of richness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have a cleaning lady? If you do, you are middle or upper class.

If you have a cleaning lady, you are likely well beyond middle class. You are upper middle to upper class.

What if I just fired my cleaning lady? Am I back to middle class?

If you had a cleaning lady to fire, you are still upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HHI is 230k. After 2 daycare expenses, a mortgage underwater, student loans- I'm definitely middle class in this area.

No, you're not. Middle Class is based on HHI -- not on the choices you made/make (i.e. to have 2 kids, to buy the house you bought, to take on the debt you took on).

In fact, many middle class families in the area don't even own a house because they couldn't afford to do so.

You make more than double the median salary for the region. You don't think people making $80k have expenses (childcare, mortgage, student loans)?

Wrong. Class is based on much more than income. It is also based on your level of education, your parents' level of education, your life style choices, your manners and your taste. Income is only part of socio-economic class.

No, when we're talking about middle class in terms of economics and we're talking about the U.S., we're talking HHI. It doesn't matter what education, lifestyle choices or manners are. We're talking cold hard numbers.

A guy with a high school diploma who likes NASCAR but makes some savvy business decisions, combined with luck, and manages to own a successful company, pulling in a high salary may seem "low class" to you but would still be upper class if his salary fit the definition.

We're not talking about the British, turn of the century concept of class and lineage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we need another category, something between middles class and rich. Upper middle class does not cut it because everyone is fighting over what makes up the "middle".

Our HHI is $300K+, two working parents. We have a small amount of debt in addition to our mortgage but all student debt is paid off and we are on track to eliminate all non-mortgage debt within the year. We live in a small, not updated, close in house in DC with a good school district. We expect to finally be able to update our house in the next year or so once (1) non-mortgage debt is gone, and (2) our youngest starts K and there is no more private preschool/daycare bill. We can afford to eat mostly organic, take occasional vacations, drive decent cars that we keep for about 10 years, and we will ensure that our children have excellent educational options and can attend the best college for them that they get into. We are saving for retirement. We usually drive over flying when traveling because of cost but we will stay in nice hotels because we like them. We recognize we are very well off, but not rich in the common understanding of that word as portrayed in movies and on TV. We do not make financial decisions without thinking them through. We get upset when there is a problem with the a/c or roof or something else because such expenses are a big deal to us.

So, what is the name for this category that does not (1) insult people that are struggling financially because it understates how well off a HH is as compared to the country and the world or (2) overstate how well off a HH is in its day to day experience of life and relative to the truly wealthy.

I'm sorry you don't get it, but you are upper class. Not even upper middle class, your salary puts you in upper class. period.

No one is saying that upper class or even rich people don't have to watch what they spend money on or be prudent or practice self-restraint.

An HHI of $300k, even in this area, is upper class.

Movies and TV are not real, folks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The failure of people who make 200k, 500k, etc to realize they are rich, is exactly the reason why we have such income disparity in the United States. Holy shit. Holy cognitive dissonance.

+ a million

Seriously, the lady posting that she has an HHI of $300k and a mortgage that is almost paid off in a good school district in DC and is *still* able to take vacations thinks she's not rich because her house is small and not updated? Are you kidding me?

It's sickening. Does she not realize how many people live in this area on an HHI of $60k, with kids to support? No, lady, you are RICH! Maybe we need a term like "working rich" because people seem to think that they aren't rich unless they don't have to work and live in a castle with granite counter tops, stainless steel appliances, theater rooms, ladies in waiting and a butler and a limo and a private jet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My take: If you have most if not everything you NEED, can take care of some WANTS occasionally, yet everyone you know still has more than you.

This is perfect!! And absolutely true. The tricky part is identifying what you NEED vs. what you want. Some might think a new car after 5 or 7 years is a need, others (like me) think it's a want. Some might think new clothes every year or season is a need, others may think it's a want. But I love the definition.

The problem from reading posts is that I don't think people do understand the difference between need and want. Our needs are actually pretty basic. And most people on here would look at a family that just had what it needs and call it poverty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HHI is 230k. After 2 daycare expenses, a mortgage underwater, student loans- I'm definitely middle class in this area.

No, you're not. Middle Class is based on HHI -- not on the choices you made/make (i.e. to have 2 kids, to buy the house you bought, to take on the debt you took on).

In fact, many middle class families in the area don't even own a house because they couldn't afford to do so.

You make more than double the median salary for the region. You don't think people making $80k have expenses (childcare, mortgage, student loans)?

Wrong. Class is based on much more than income. It is also based on your level of education, your parents' level of education, your life style choices, your manners and your taste. Income is only part of socio-economic class.

No, when we're talking about middle class in terms of economics and we're talking about the U.S., we're talking HHI. It doesn't matter what education, lifestyle choices or manners are. We're talking cold hard numbers.

A guy with a high school diploma who likes NASCAR but makes some savvy business decisions, combined with luck, and manages to own a successful company, pulling in a high salary may seem "low class" to you but would still be upper class if his salary fit the definition.

We're not talking about the British, turn of the century concept of class and lineage.

Not true. Class is determined by more than just income. Education, job, etc all goes into class. Unlike GB, you can actually move among the classes here.

[Anonymous]

Maybe we need a term like "working rich" because people seem to think that they aren't rich unless they don't have to work and live in a castle with granite counter tops, stainless steel appliances, theater rooms, l

"Working rich," I like it. The irony is most of these folks could be non-working rich with restraint and patience. Instead, they go into hock and piss away their money buying these things, ensuring they will have to work forever like everyone else. Hence, "I am middle class."