Why do white parents think black kids are accepted into private school only because of their race?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reality that a lot of people want to ignore is that affirmative action has done a lot of good. It has exposed many people to industries, professions, and schools that they would have never had a chance to experience. During slavery, a black person could lose their life for knowing how to read. In the days of Jim Crow, there were so many abuses that something drastic had to be done to get a rapid change. Somehow, people who would never have been allowed in the door had to be forced in. A good elderly friend of mine still has the letter he received from UVA telling him that the school would not accept him, because he was black, but would pay for him to go elsewhere.

Affirmative action has helped women, minorities, and to some degree the disabled into more challenging and lucrative careers. It is practiced in some form in many other countries like India. The benefits are obvious. To mention a few, more diverse corporations tend to be more successful. Our society starts to look better, and we have less shame.


There is still too much evidence that societal racism affects everything from birth weight to life expectancy. Recent studies out of Britain imply that racism in the education system is a huge factor that determines the academic outcome of black students. Teachers with low expectations of black students give out lower grades and are less likely to recommend advanced classes. Scores tend to be higher for blacks if papers are graded anonymously. All of these factors can tire anyone. The student becomes discouraged and loses interest. All the while, everyone either blames the student or his family. Even sympathy can take a patronizing turn.

In my profession, I saw a white man promoted above some black and Asian workers, simply because he was white. He was THE MOST incompetent individual I have ever met. He was eventually fired, they hired another white man from the outside, who so far stinks. That spot will probably never be filled by a minority.

I am reluctant to support the idea of affirmative action, and I can see why it is upsetting to many people, but are we trying to be fair? Can we ask our grandparents why they were not fair?

What field are you in? Are you in education?

Interesting that we attack affirmative action but we don't attack the status quo.

[Anonymous]

Agreed, 17:26, good analysis. As well, I have been on hiring committees and it is quite striking to me how much I want to hire people who are exactly like me. I have a comfort level with people like me which I may mistake for a judgment about competence. I am conscious of these feelings and admit them (at least anonymously) and I suspect there are a number of people who are not aware of this dynamic. I am very careful not to give in to this but I can see how easy it is to discriminate unintentionally.

Case in point: Researchers have found that resumes with Black-identified names like Rakeisha are less likely to excite interest and lead to a call-back than resumes with typical white names like Jennifer. And the resumes are exactly the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agreed, 17:26, good analysis. As well, I have been on hiring committees and it is quite striking to me how much I want to hire people who are exactly like me. I have a comfort level with people like me which I may mistake for a judgment about competence. I am conscious of these feelings and admit them (at least anonymously) and I suspect there are a number of people who are not aware of this dynamic. I am very careful not to give in to this but I can see how easy it is to discriminate unintentionally.

Case in point: Researchers have found that resumes with Black-identified names like Rakeisha are less likely to excite interest and lead to a call-back than resumes with typical white names like Jennifer. And the resumes are exactly the same.

Thanks for your honesty.

[Anonymous]

"resumes with Black-identified names like Rakeisha are less likely to excite interest and lead to a call-back "

this is funny

Please tell it to the mamas who want to give their baby an unusual name.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"resumes with Black-identified names like Rakeisha are less likely to excite interest and lead to a call-back "

this is funny

Please tell it to the mamas who want to give their baby an unusual name.

I don't find it funny at all. Only celebrities can get away with giving their kids weird/unusual names: Apple, Honor, Shiloh, Moon. For the average person, it's a matter of even getting an interview for a job or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agreed, 17:26, good analysis. As well, I have been on hiring committees and it is quite striking to me how much I want to hire people who are exactly like me. I have a comfort level with people like me which I may mistake for a judgment about competence. I am conscious of these feelings and admit them (at least anonymously) and I suspect there are a number of people who are not aware of this dynamic. I am very careful not to give in to this but I can see how easy it is to discriminate unintentionally.

Case in point: Researchers have found that resumes with Black-identified names like Rakeisha are less likely to excite interest and lead to a call-back than resumes with typical white names like Jennifer. And the resumes are exactly the same.

This was one study published in, I think, an economics journal. The resumes were not exactly the same, but were given qualifications that were judged to be equivalent. The only outcome measured was being called for an interview. The caveat, of course, is the implication that racism was at fault when it might have been class bias. Blacks and whites might both be named Jason and Emily but Lakisha was judged to be a black name. However, critics of the study have noted that middle- and upper-class blacks are probably less likely to give their children stereotypical African American names. Rightly or wrongly, first names are associated with perceived social class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"resumes with Black-identified names like Rakeisha are less likely to excite interest and lead to a call-back "

this is funny

Please tell it to the mamas who want to give their baby an unusual name.

It's not unusual in their neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed, 17:26, good analysis. As well, I have been on hiring committees and it is quite striking to me how much I want to hire people who are exactly like me. I have a comfort level with people like me which I may mistake for a judgment about competence. I am conscious of these feelings and admit them (at least anonymously) and I suspect there are a number of people who are not aware of this dynamic. I am very careful not to give in to this but I can see how easy it is to discriminate unintentionally.

Case in point: Researchers have found that resumes with Black-identified names like Rakeisha are less likely to excite interest and lead to a call-back than resumes with typical white names like Jennifer. And the resumes are exactly the same.

This was one study published in, I think, an economics journal. The resumes were not exactly the same, but were given qualifications that were judged to be equivalent. The only outcome measured was being called for an interview. The caveat, of course, is the implication that racism was at fault when it might have been class bias. Blacks and whites might both be named Jason and Emily but Lakisha was judged to be a black name. However, critics of the study have noted that middle- and upper-class blacks are probably less likely to give their children stereotypical African American names. Rightly or wrongly, first names are associated with perceived social class.

Sure no doubt it is related to social class. I'm guessing white applicant "Billy Bob" won't get as many interviews either. But it does show that prejudice and discrimination are more insidious than many people realize.

I think some people believe that affirmative action is not necessary because they know they would never discriminate. But the reality is that people do actually discriminate more than they realize.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Case in point: Researchers have found that resumes with Black-identified names like Rakeisha are less likely to excite interest and lead to a call-back than resumes with typical white names like Jennifer. And the resumes are exactly the same.

This was one study published in, I think, an economics journal. The resumes were not exactly the same, but were given qualifications that were judged to be equivalent. The only outcome measured was being called for an interview. The caveat, of course, is the implication that racism was at fault when it might have been class bias. Blacks and whites might both be named Jason and Emily but Lakisha was judged to be a black name. However, critics of the study have noted that middle- and upper-class blacks are probably less likely to give their children stereotypical African American names. Rightly or wrongly, first names are associated with perceived social class.

FWIW, a friend who is black (middle class) and her circle (family & friends) looked down on the stereotypical AA naming conventions. They referred to it as "ghetto." So there is also some class involved, but for people who are not black, I think it can be adequately deduced that it is a race thing.

[Anonymous]

Names can be a reflection of class structure in both white and black cultures. See, e.g., "Tiffyni"; "Britnee"; "Haylee"; "Shaneequa".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Case in point: Researchers have found that resumes with Black-identified names like Rakeisha are less likely to excite interest and lead to a call-back than resumes with typical white names like Jennifer. And the resumes are exactly the same.

This was one study published in, I think, an economics journal. The resumes were not exactly the same, but were given qualifications that were judged to be equivalent. The only outcome measured was being called for an interview. The caveat, of course, is the implication that racism was at fault when it might have been class bias. Blacks and whites might both be named Jason and Emily but Lakisha was judged to be a black name. However, critics of the study have noted that middle- and upper-class blacks are probably less likely to give their children stereotypical African American names. Rightly or wrongly, first names are associated with perceived social class.

FWIW, a friend who is black (middle class) and her circle (family & friends) looked down on the stereotypical AA naming conventions. They referred to it as "ghetto." So there is also some class involved, but for people who are not black, I think it can be adequately deduced that it is a race thing.

10:06 here. I'm sure it's at least partially about racial bias, but my point is that it's also at least somewhat about class bias, and without further study it's impossible to tease out what is racism, what is classism, and what is an interaction of both, and the latter is probably the most harmful in terms of limiting opportunity. I remember well when this study came out because we included it in a lit review we worked on for the Department of Labor. The study got a lot of press but it didn't hold up that well under scrutiny for the reasons I've mentioned here.

FWIW, the black children and parents at the independent school our child goes to tend to have very race-neutral names. The black parents I know there seem pretty affluent and are highly educated. I don't think parents at this school make the assumptions OP referred to. But the school is very racially and ethnically diverse, so maybe that makes a difference. It's not one of the most prestigious or "big three" schools. I suspect the attitudes the OP referred to are not evenly distributed across the area's independent schools, and the diversity of the student body and families makes a big difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Names can be a reflection of class structure in both white and black cultures. See, e.g., "Tiffyni"; "Britnee"; "Haylee"; "Shaneequa".

10:06/10:34 here. Exactly. And we all have biases related to social class, if we're honest enough to admit it. If I meet an adult white woman whose name is "Britnee," I'm going to have a hard time thinking she's a better hire than an Emily with equivalent qualifications -- Emily being the prototypical white name the economists used for women in their study. That's purely class-based prejudice on my part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Case in point: Researchers have found that resumes with Black-identified names like Rakeisha are less likely to excite interest and lead to a call-back than resumes with typical white names like Jennifer. And the resumes are exactly the same.

This was one study published in, I think, an economics journal. The resumes were not exactly the same, but were given qualifications that were judged to be equivalent. The only outcome measured was being called for an interview. The caveat, of course, is the implication that racism was at fault when it might have been class bias. Blacks and whites might both be named Jason and Emily but Lakisha was judged to be a black name. However, critics of the study have noted that middle- and upper-class blacks are probably less likely to give their children stereotypical African American names. Rightly or wrongly, first names are associated with perceived social class.

FWIW, a friend who is black (middle class) and her circle (family & friends) looked down on the stereotypical AA naming conventions. They referred to it as "ghetto." So there is also some class involved, but for people who are not black, I think it can be adequately deduced that it is a race thing.

Just wanted to add that the researchers in this study had no idea of the race of those making decisions about who to interview. That was another major limitation of the study, and one that made me think class bias played a significant role. It sounds like your black middle-class friend would have had the same preference for non-stereotypical black names, were she one of the decisionmakers. The researchers would have put that down to racism, without knowing she was black.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
FWIW, the black children and parents at the independent school our child goes to tend to have very race-neutral names. The black parents I know there seem pretty affluent and are highly educated. I don't think parents at this school make the assumptions OP referred to. But the school is very racially and ethnically diverse, so maybe that makes a difference. It's not one of the most prestigious or "big three" schools. I suspect the attitudes the OP referred to are not evenly distributed across the area's independent schools, and the diversity of the student body and families makes a big difference.

But what's a race-neutral name in a majority white Anglo society? Are you sure you wouldn't call them "white" names? Hmmm....this will take more time and thought to sort out than I should be spending when I'm at work. Must....stop...cogitating.....now!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
FWIW, the black children and parents at the independent school our child goes to tend to have very race-neutral names. The black parents I know there seem pretty affluent and are highly educated. I don't think parents at this school make the assumptions OP referred to. But the school is very racially and ethnically diverse, so maybe that makes a difference. It's not one of the most prestigious or "big three" schools. I suspect the attitudes the OP referred to are not evenly distributed across the area's independent schools, and the diversity of the student body and families makes a big difference.

But what's a race-neutral name in a majority white Anglo society? Are you sure you wouldn't call them "white" names? Hmmm....this will take more time and thought to sort out than I should be spending when I'm at work. Must....stop...cogitating.....now!

Good point. I don't know if they're necessarily "white" names, but they're certainly representative of middle-class and upper middle-class families I have known of all races. Of course my perspective is just that -- my perspective. If I've known four black Miriams and three white ones, is it a "white" name or a "black" name? I think of it as a biblical name, and as race-neutral, but that's just my perspective. I'm biracial myself, so I guess I have a foot in both camps.