AAP Work Session Scheduled for Jan. 14, 3:30 pm

[Anonymous]

How is the center crowded because it's popular? It's not like people assigned to other centers can choose it.

It's crowded because the center helps the whole school. As Dr. Sheers described last night, the teachers at the center engage in "vertical" as well as "horizontal" collaboration with one another. So the non-center teachers collaborate with the center teachers and share best practices, and vice versa. This is an excellent school. That's why so many people have moved inside its boundaries!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How is the center crowded because it's popular? It's not like people assigned to other centers can choose it.

It's crowded because the center helps the whole school. As Dr. Sheers described last night, the teachers at the center engage in "vertical" as well as "horizontal" collaboration with one another. So the non-center teachers collaborate with the center teachers and share best practices, and vice versa. This is an excellent school. That's why so many people have moved inside its boundaries!

This is not done solely at Haycock. Many other Center schools do this as well.

The 800 pound gorilla is the perceived "feeder" into TJ. What's best in that situation is to take the Center away altogether. That alters demand and will reduce the overcrowding issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How is the center crowded because it's popular? It's not like people assigned to other centers can choose it.

It's crowded because the center helps the whole school. As Dr. Sheers described last night, the teachers at the center engage in "vertical" as well as "horizontal" collaboration with one another. So the non-center teachers collaborate with the center teachers and share best practices, and vice versa. This is an excellent school. That's why so many people have moved inside its boundaries!

We have been at three FCPS ES. Haycock is not that unique, except for the elitist attitude we are now surrounded by. And I can't figure out why people move in...just like everybody else...and then complain about how crowded it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

How is the center crowded because it's popular? It's not like people assigned to other centers can choose it.

It's crowded because the center helps the whole school. As Dr. Sheers described last night, the teachers at the center engage in "vertical" as well as "horizontal" collaboration with one another. So the non-center teachers collaborate with the center teachers and share best practices, and vice versa. This is an excellent school. That's why so many people have moved inside its boundaries!

We have been at three FCPS ES. Haycock is not that unique, except for the elitist attitude we are now surrounded by. And I can't figure out why people move in...just like everybody else...and then complain about how crowded it is.

Amen! I keep meeting families that have moved to the Haycock boundary area in the last couple of years, yet they are complaining about overcrowding. It has been an issue for almost 10 years. A little research would have told them that.

[Anonymous]

The most disappointing part of the meeting was that somehow the staff has repositioned a discussion about how to provide aap services in a better way to a discussion about how to deal with overcrowding issues at a few elementary schools and middle schools without having to go through a boundary change.

The advanced academics fcps staff should not be leading this issue. The numbers being presented are consistently inaccurate, and frankly I don't think they know how to go about finding space in fcps schools. That is the role of facilities and planning.

The AA staff has a great opportunity to reshape the AA program and develop specific policies on how the service should be delivered. They can study why some centers like Rachel Carson and Longfellow are so successful, and other centers have not had similar success. What type of training works best for teachers, what is the right mix of students, how should the classes be taught? Even look at how the students are identified. The school board seems eager to review these questions, and might even give them some funding for studies.

There is no strategic thinking going on with this staff. I hope they get smart-- withdraw the middle school proposals, focus on relieving overcrowding at three elementary schools -- and then do some work to figure out what makes a strong AA program-- and replicate it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think they'll look back in a year and see that removing 90 kids did not really help Haycock very much. It will still be overcrowded and they'll start targeting the next group. When will Fairfax County Public Schools actually start to PLAN rather than just reacting? It was incredibly frustrating to watch that discussion. They keep making the same mistakes over and over again!! They spoke about how they want a balance of AAP and non-AAP, yet they create a new AAP center in a school of 300 kids. It will be 50% AAP in no time and then the Lemon Road families will be upset. The overcrowding discussions were unbelievable. FCPS has no idea what it's doing.

Whatever happens at Haycock, happens and I don't think the board is willing to think creatively about how to come up with the best policy solution for that community. What frustrates me is that they never actually solve any of the problems. They react once the probelm becomes a "crisis." I get it that much of the board is "new" but that's no excuse for the staff. How is it that facilities has no idea how many trailers are at the various middle schools and how they are used? How is it that projections are so wildly wrong and change by hundreds of students from year to year with no explanation? It's outrageous to me.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think they'll look back and see that, in fact, removing 90 kids during the renovation period helped get the school through the renovation period without making the school unlivable, but also helped immediately create an excellent Cluster 2 center. And it's not just 90 kids: the creation of a Lemon Road center will also move Cluster 2 AAP 3rd graders out of Haycock this fall, and then in 2014-15 the "grandfathered" 6th grade class will have graduated. So that's another 90 or so students over two years. Plus the creation of LLIV at Franklin Sherman should provide additional relief at Haycock. This is the solution that both principals from Lemon Road and Haycock have backed, and for good reason: it's forward-thinking and disrupts as few families as possible during a difficult situation. Another parent here called the situation "a perfect storm." That seems about right.

The most frustrating part of last night's discussion as far as I was concerned was watching Elizabeth Schultz. Rather than listen to the suggestions of both these principals -- who ought to know better than anyone what the "right" solution is for their communities -- she basically said that, well, kids are resilient, she moved around to many, many schools as a kid and turned out fine, and the most important thing was to "keep the cohort together." She seemed to want to needlessly move Cluster 1 families to Lemon Road during the construction period, despite the fact that they will not be continuing with their Cluster 2 friends in middle school or high school. Talk about short-term, reactionary solutions! Both principals felt there would be "critical mass" at both Lemon Road and Haycock next year, and that Haycock could continue with the renovation safely by adopting Janie Strauss' amendment. Ms. Schultz simply ignored them. It was so painful listening to her. She obviously thinks she knows best, and anyone else's opinion is irrelevant. Such arrogance. Be careful of these FEC veterans, guys. Thank goodness Dranesville didn't elect Louise Epstein or we'd be dealing with more of the same. Sheesh!

Yes, thank god that dreanesville has Janie Strauss, a 20yr school board veteran who would never let a school in her jurisdiction get to this level of crisis without convincing her colleagues to deal with the issue. Obviously she has done a great job for Haycock throughout the years.

It's fascinating to watch the Haycock parents defend Strauss after being in the meeting in October where they were ready to boot her out. What exactly has she done for them since except kick a few kids out? They are getting a renovation they don't want and no relief from overcrowding. She better make sure they can keep the mod because it will be needed after the renovation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

There is no strategic thinking going on with this staff. I hope they get smart-- withdraw the middle school proposals, focus on relieving overcrowding at three elementary schools -- and then do some work to figure out what makes a strong AA program-- and replicate it!

I think the School Board is going to support Tammy Derenak Kaufax's amendment (which itself may be further amended so South County and Cooper can go through) to have a more strategic review of AAP as a whole (K-12).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I think they'll look back in a year and see that removing 90 kids did not really help Haycock very much. It will still be overcrowded and they'll start targeting the next group. When will Fairfax County Public Schools actually start to PLAN rather than just reacting? It was incredibly frustrating to watch that discussion. They keep making the same mistakes over and over again!! They spoke about how they want a balance of AAP and non-AAP, yet they create a new AAP center in a school of 300 kids. It will be 50% AAP in no time and then the Lemon Road families will be upset. The overcrowding discussions were unbelievable. FCPS has no idea what it's doing.

Whatever happens at Haycock, happens and I don't think the board is willing to think creatively about how to come up with the best policy solution for that community. What frustrates me is that they never actually solve any of the problems. They react once the probelm becomes a "crisis." I get it that much of the board is "new" but that's no excuse for the staff. How is it that facilities has no idea how many trailers are at the various middle schools and how they are used? How is it that projections are so wildly wrong and change by hundreds of students from year to year with no explanation? It's outrageous to me.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think they'll look back and see that, in fact, removing 90 kids during the renovation period helped get the school through the renovation period without making the school unlivable, but also helped immediately create an excellent Cluster 2 center. And it's not just 90 kids: the creation of a Lemon Road center will also move Cluster 2 AAP 3rd graders out of Haycock this fall, and then in 2014-15 the "grandfathered" 6th grade class will have graduated. So that's another 90 or so students over two years. Plus the creation of LLIV at Franklin Sherman should provide additional relief at Haycock. This is the solution that both principals from Lemon Road and Haycock have backed, and for good reason: it's forward-thinking and disrupts as few families as possible during a difficult situation. Another parent here called the situation "a perfect storm." That seems about right.

The most frustrating part of last night's discussion as far as I was concerned was watching Elizabeth Schultz. Rather than listen to the suggestions of both these principals -- who ought to know better than anyone what the "right" solution is for their communities -- she basically said that, well, kids are resilient, she moved around to many, many schools as a kid and turned out fine, and the most important thing was to "keep the cohort together." She seemed to want to needlessly move Cluster 1 families to Lemon Road during the construction period, despite the fact that they will not be continuing with their Cluster 2 friends in middle school or high school. Talk about short-term, reactionary solutions! Both principals felt there would be "critical mass" at both Lemon Road and Haycock next year, and that Haycock could continue with the renovation safely by adopting Janie Strauss' amendment. Ms. Schultz simply ignored them. It was so painful listening to her. She obviously thinks she knows best, and anyone else's opinion is irrelevant. Such arrogance. Be careful of these FEC veterans, guys. Thank goodness Dranesville didn't elect Louise Epstein or we'd be dealing with more of the same. Sheesh!

Yes, thank god that dreanesville has Janie Strauss, a 20yr school board veteran who would never let a school in her jurisdiction get to this level of crisis without convincing her colleagues to deal with the issue. Obviously she has done a great job for Haycock throughout the years.

It's fascinating to watch the Haycock parents defend Strauss after being in the meeting in October where they were ready to boot her out. What exactly has she done for them since except kick a few kids out? They are getting a renovation they don't want and no relief from overcrowding. She better make sure they can keep the mod because it will be needed after the renovation.

90 less kids next year is some relieve from overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

Yes, thank god that dreanesville has Janie Strauss, a 20yr school board veteran who would never let a school in her jurisdiction get to this level of crisis without convincing her colleagues to deal with the issue. Obviously she has done a great job for Haycock throughout the years.

It's fascinating to watch the Haycock parents defend Strauss after being in the meeting in October where they were ready to boot her out. What exactly has she done for them since except kick a few kids out? They are getting a renovation they don't want and no relief from overcrowding. She better make sure they can keep the mod because it will be needed after the renovation.

Louise Epstein... is that you? Always quick with the (self-serving) criticism. Never one to make the tough trade-offs. You swooped into Haycock that that October meeting (despite the fact that you are not a parent there) to offer utopian solutions just to make people angry. Just keep imagining in your fantasyland that Haycock will get $25 million for a 2-story renovation (despite needs elsewhere in the county), move the population to Pimmit during the construction, and of course this all would have been done if only you had yelled and screamed hard enough for it.

Strauss did take lots of #(*$ at that October meeting. That's what public officials do. They make difficult choices, and they take (@#* for it. Strauss isn't perfect, but obviously more people in Dranesville prefer her to someone who's completely dishonest with them.

[Anonymous]

AAP is going to be reduced to the top 10% so we will see less overall numbers at centers. This will help all the center schools with overcrowding and also allow the AAP program to serve those that really need the advanced work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, thank god that dreanesville has Janie Strauss, a 20yr school board veteran who would never let a school in her jurisdiction get to this level of crisis without convincing her colleagues to deal with the issue. Obviously she has done a great job for Haycock throughout the years.

It's fascinating to watch the Haycock parents defend Strauss after being in the meeting in October where they were ready to boot her out. What exactly has she done for them since except kick a few kids out? They are getting a renovation they don't want and no relief from overcrowding. She better make sure they can keep the mod because it will be needed after the renovation.

Louise Epstein... is that you? Always quick with the (self-serving) criticism. Never one to make the tough trade-offs. You swooped into Haycock that that October meeting (despite the fact that you are not a parent there) to offer utopian solutions just to make people angry. Just keep imagining in your fantasyland that Haycock will get $25 million for a 2-story renovation (despite needs elsewhere in the county), move the population to Pimmit during the construction, and of course this all would have been done if only you had yelled and screamed hard enough for it.

Strauss did take lots of #(*$ at that October meeting. That's what public officials do. They make difficult choices, and they take (@#* for it. Strauss isn't perfect, but obviously more people in Dranesville prefer her to someone who's completely dishonest with them.

Nope. Wrong. Not Louise. I had no idea what Strauss was like until I started tracking this issue. She's a real piece of work.

[Anonymous]

Strauss did take lots of #(*$ at that October meeting. That's what public officials do. They make difficult choices, and they take (@#* for it. Strauss isn't perfect, but obviously more people in Dranesville prefer her to someone who's completely dishonest with them.

Amen! And at least Strauss told folks in October that they might be moved out of Haycock. She's consistently told anyone who would listen that she wouldn't be advocating grandfathering. So she's given people time to air their grievances about moving to Lemon Road... and air they have. She's taken her lumps. Patty Reed didn't suggest moving the ENTIRE 4th and 5th grades of AAP kids until last Friday. I'm all for creative problem-solving, but you've also got to be involved in community engagement. Shame on you, Patty Reed.

[Anonymous]

At least Patty was trying to solve the problem. Maybe it wasn't a solution people liked but she was trying to find one. She was listening to all of the Haycock parents' complaining about overcrowding and how awful the renovation was going to be. She was trying to give them a little extra indoor space and some breathing room for the renovation, while at the same time solving her constituents' problem. It was not a perfect solution, but she was trying. Did you expect her to blow off her constituents' concerns?

Shame on Janie for not engaging in any creative problem solving. Janie knew what she wanted to do and she shoved it through rather than trying to find something that could work for everyone.

Oh and by the way, Janie knew about the proposal before last Friday, so why didn't she mention it to her constituents if she's oh so good at public engagement?

[Anonymous]

Louise Epstein... is that you? Always quick with the (self-serving) criticism. Never one to make the tough trade-offs. You swooped into Haycock that that October meeting (despite the fact that you are not a parent there) to offer utopian solutions just to make people angry. Just keep imagining in your fantasyland that Haycock will get $25 million for a 2-story renovation (despite needs elsewhere in the county), move the population to Pimmit during the construction, and of course this all would have been done if only you had yelled and screamed hard enough for it.

Strauss did take lots of #(*$ at that October meeting. That's what public officials do. They make difficult choices, and they take (@#* for it. Strauss isn't perfect, but obviously more people in Dranesville prefer her to someone who's completely dishonest with them.

Sorry to disappoint but I don't even know who Louise is. To be honest, I don't even know where Haycock is. But all of the posts I have seen about this issue over the last year has led me back to the same question over and over again -- how did FCPS and the School Board ever let an elementary school get into such a crisis! A parent i spoke with at a meeting told me that the environment at the school has become almost toxic, with groups of parents not speaking to each other over this issue. Where is your cluster superintendent? Why hasn't dr. Dale taken this on as a personal commitment to remedy the situation. It seems to an outsider that the parents, students teachers and staff have been failed by everyone at the school system.

Maybe we should use Haycock as a case study to ensure that the county doesn't let any other schools get into a similar situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At least Patty was trying to solve the problem. Maybe it wasn't a solution people liked but she was trying to find one. She was listening to all of the Haycock parents' complaining about overcrowding and how awful the renovation was going to be. She was trying to give them a little extra indoor space and some breathing room for the renovation, while at the same time solving her constituents' problem. It was not a perfect solution, but she was trying. Did you expect her to blow off her constituents' concerns?

Shame on Janie for not engaging in any creative problem solving. Janie knew what she wanted to do and she shoved it through rather than trying to find something that could work for everyone.

Oh and by the way, Janie knew about the proposal before last Friday, so why didn't she mention it to her constituents if she's oh so good at public engagement?

Oh, Louise, you are still in la-la-land. Patty has shown up at WHICH Haycock renovation meetings? Which PTA meetings? Oh, that's right: she hasn't been at any of them.

Parroting the angriest and most vengeful parent suggestions (if Cluster 2 kids have to go to Lemon Road then you will ALL go to Lemon Road, ha, ha, ha) is not statesmanship. It's not good policy. But it makes people feel like you're an advocate... without actually having to do the tough stuff of politics. You know, compromise.

The right solution is a compromise. It hasn't been shoved down anybody's throat. There is no solution that works for everyone. Sorry, Louise, keep pitching those dreamworld suggestions... but we see right through you.