AAP Work Session Scheduled for Jan. 14, 3:30 pm

[Anonymous]

I think the Haycock solution is to take the AAP Center out of the school. That way the AAP teachers can relocate to an AAP Center at another school, and then the remaining general ed kids will still access elements of the AAP curriculum. The gifted kids will have a strong cohort at a newly located AAP Center with the experienced AAP Center teachers. It really is the best for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps the special ed kids don't care then but some general ed students seem to feel marginalized when 80% of the school is AAP.

Here's the thing. The Haycock population itself is about 50% AAP in each grade, so when you add a center on top of that, it gets overwhelming. Even without a center, the school would be about 50/50. It sounds like the Haycock population just doesn't want a center. Maybe it wants local level IV, which would give it about a 50/50 ratio in each grade. That's ust what happens when you go to a school in a high socioeconomic area. I think Springhill is similar.

[Anonymous]

I think they'll look back in a year and see that removing 90 kids did not really help Haycock very much. It will still be overcrowded and they'll start targeting the next group. When will Fairfax County Public Schools actually start to PLAN rather than just reacting? It was incredibly frustrating to watch that discussion. They keep making the same mistakes over and over again!! They spoke about how they want a balance of AAP and non-AAP, yet they create a new AAP center in a school of 300 kids. It will be 50% AAP in no time and then the Lemon Road families will be upset. The overcrowding discussions were unbelievable. FCPS has no idea what it's doing.

Whatever happens at Haycock, happens and I don't think the board is willing to think creatively about how to come up with the best policy solution for that community. What frustrates me is that they never actually solve any of the problems. They react once the probelm becomes a "crisis." I get it that much of the board is "new" but that's no excuse for the staff. How is it that facilities has no idea how many trailers are at the various middle schools and how they are used? How is it that projections are so wildly wrong and change by hundreds of students from year to year with no explanation? It's outrageous to me.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think they'll look back and see that, in fact, removing 90 kids during the renovation period helped get the school through the renovation period without making the school unlivable, but also helped immediately create an excellent Cluster 2 center. And it's not just 90 kids: the creation of a Lemon Road center will also move Cluster 2 AAP 3rd graders out of Haycock this fall, and then in 2014-15 the "grandfathered" 6th grade class will have graduated. So that's another 90 or so students over two years. Plus the creation of LLIV at Franklin Sherman should provide additional relief at Haycock. This is the solution that both principals from Lemon Road and Haycock have backed, and for good reason: it's forward-thinking and disrupts as few families as possible during a difficult situation. Another parent here called the situation "a perfect storm." That seems about right.

The most frustrating part of last night's discussion as far as I was concerned was watching Elizabeth Schultz. Rather than listen to the suggestions of both these principals -- who ought to know better than anyone what the "right" solution is for their communities -- she basically said that, well, kids are resilient, she moved around to many, many schools as a kid and turned out fine, and the most important thing was to "keep the cohort together." She seemed to want to needlessly move Cluster 1 families to Lemon Road during the construction period, despite the fact that they will not be continuing with their Cluster 2 friends in middle school or high school. Talk about short-term, reactionary solutions! Both principals felt there would be "critical mass" at both Lemon Road and Haycock next year, and that Haycock could continue with the renovation safely by adopting Janie Strauss' amendment. Ms. Schultz simply ignored them. It was so painful listening to her. She obviously thinks she knows best, and anyone else's opinion is irrelevant. Such arrogance. Be careful of these FEC veterans, guys. Thank goodness Dranesville didn't elect Louise Epstein or we'd be dealing with more of the same. Sheesh!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure it matters much whether these children are AAP kid base school kids verses AAP transfer kids to the general ed or special needs kid who feels overwhelmed by having so much of the school "smarter" than him or her.

Perhaps you should have researched that before you moved to a school with a center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the Haycock solution is to take the AAP Center out of the school. That way the AAP teachers can relocate to an AAP Center at another school, and then the remaining general ed kids will still access elements of the AAP curriculum. The gifted kids will have a strong cohort at a newly located AAP Center with the experienced AAP Center teachers. It really is the best for everyone.

Um, except that not only does Haycock want the center, but it's one of the most successful centers in the county. That's why they have this overcrowding problem... They're a victim of their own success, as somebody at the School Board meeting said last night. Somebody even said to the principal last night that they'd be approaching her after this mess is all over to talk about "best practices" at AAP Centers. No one wants to move the AAP Center out of Haycock.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the Haycock solution is to take the AAP Center out of the school. That way the AAP teachers can relocate to an AAP Center at another school, and then the remaining general ed kids will still access elements of the AAP curriculum. The gifted kids will have a strong cohort at a newly located AAP Center with the experienced AAP Center teachers. It really is the best for everyone.

Um, except that not only does Haycock want the center, but it's one of the most successful centers in the county. That's why they have this overcrowding problem... They're a victim of their own success, as somebody at the School Board meeting said last night. Somebody even said to the principal last night that they'd be approaching her after this mess is all over to talk about "best practices" at AAP Centers. No one wants to move the AAP Center out of Haycock.

I wouldn't be so sure. The Gen Ed parents whine endlessly about the center. What makes you think they want to keep it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think they'll look back in a year and see that removing 90 kids did not really help Haycock very much. It will still be overcrowded and they'll start targeting the next group. When will Fairfax County Public Schools actually start to PLAN rather than just reacting? It was incredibly frustrating to watch that discussion. They keep making the same mistakes over and over again!! They spoke about how they want a balance of AAP and non-AAP, yet they create a new AAP center in a school of 300 kids. It will be 50% AAP in no time and then the Lemon Road families will be upset. The overcrowding discussions were unbelievable. FCPS has no idea what it's doing.

Whatever happens at Haycock, happens and I don't think the board is willing to think creatively about how to come up with the best policy solution for that community. What frustrates me is that they never actually solve any of the problems. They react once the probelm becomes a "crisis." I get it that much of the board is "new" but that's no excuse for the staff. How is it that facilities has no idea how many trailers are at the various middle schools and how they are used? How is it that projections are so wildly wrong and change by hundreds of students from year to year with no explanation? It's outrageous to me.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think they'll look back and see that, in fact, removing 90 kids during the renovation period helped get the school through the renovation period without making the school unlivable, but also helped immediately create an excellent Cluster 2 center. And it's not just 90 kids: the creation of a Lemon Road center will also move Cluster 2 AAP 3rd graders out of Haycock this fall, and then in 2014-15 the "grandfathered" 6th grade class will have graduated. So that's another 90 or so students over two years. Plus the creation of LLIV at Franklin Sherman should provide additional relief at Haycock. This is the solution that both principals from Lemon Road and Haycock have backed, and for good reason: it's forward-thinking and disrupts as few families as possible during a difficult situation. Another parent here called the situation "a perfect storm." That seems about right.

The most frustrating part of last night's discussion as far as I was concerned was watching Elizabeth Schultz. Rather than listen to the suggestions of both these principals -- who ought to know better than anyone what the "right" solution is for their communities -- she basically said that, well, kids are resilient, she moved around to many, many schools as a kid and turned out fine, and the most important thing was to "keep the cohort together." She seemed to want to needlessly move Cluster 1 families to Lemon Road during the construction period, despite the fact that they will not be continuing with their Cluster 2 friends in middle school or high school. Talk about short-term, reactionary solutions! Both principals felt there would be "critical mass" at both Lemon Road and Haycock next year, and that Haycock could continue with the renovation safely by adopting Janie Strauss' amendment. Ms. Schultz simply ignored them. It was so painful listening to her. She obviously thinks she knows best, and anyone else's opinion is irrelevant. Such arrogance. Be careful of these FEC veterans, guys. Thank goodness Dranesville didn't elect Louise Epstein or we'd be dealing with more of the same. Sheesh!

It sounded to me like ELizabeth Schultz felt they had not given enough thought to the Pimmit idea.

[Anonymous]

Didn't I read that FCPS standards require a "critical mass" of 50 students per grade level for an AAP center? Lemon Road will not meet this standard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the Haycock solution is to take the AAP Center out of the school. That way the AAP teachers can relocate to an AAP Center at another school, and then the remaining general ed kids will still access elements of the AAP curriculum. The gifted kids will have a strong cohort at a newly located AAP Center with the experienced AAP Center teachers. It really is the best for everyone.

Um, except that not only does Haycock want the center, but it's one of the most successful centers in the county. That's why they have this overcrowding problem... They're a victim of their own success, as somebody at the School Board meeting said last night. Somebody even said to the principal last night that they'd be approaching her after this mess is all over to talk about "best practices" at AAP Centers. No one wants to move the AAP Center out of Haycock.

I wouldn't be so sure. The Gen Ed parents whine endlessly about the center. What makes you think they want to keep it?

I agree. The neighborhood families want the Center out. So take it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I think they'll look back in a year and see that removing 90 kids did not really help Haycock very much. It will still be overcrowded and they'll start targeting the next group. When will Fairfax County Public Schools actually start to PLAN rather than just reacting? It was incredibly frustrating to watch that discussion. They keep making the same mistakes over and over again!! They spoke about how they want a balance of AAP and non-AAP, yet they create a new AAP center in a school of 300 kids. It will be 50% AAP in no time and then the Lemon Road families will be upset. The overcrowding discussions were unbelievable. FCPS has no idea what it's doing.

Whatever happens at Haycock, happens and I don't think the board is willing to think creatively about how to come up with the best policy solution for that community. What frustrates me is that they never actually solve any of the problems. They react once the probelm becomes a "crisis." I get it that much of the board is "new" but that's no excuse for the staff. How is it that facilities has no idea how many trailers are at the various middle schools and how they are used? How is it that projections are so wildly wrong and change by hundreds of students from year to year with no explanation? It's outrageous to me.

I couldn't disagree with you more. I think they'll look back and see that, in fact, removing 90 kids during the renovation period helped get the school through the renovation period without making the school unlivable, but also helped immediately create an excellent Cluster 2 center. And it's not just 90 kids: the creation of a Lemon Road center will also move Cluster 2 AAP 3rd graders out of Haycock this fall, and then in 2014-15 the "grandfathered" 6th grade class will have graduated. So that's another 90 or so students over two years. Plus the creation of LLIV at Franklin Sherman should provide additional relief at Haycock. This is the solution that both principals from Lemon Road and Haycock have backed, and for good reason: it's forward-thinking and disrupts as few families as possible during a difficult situation. Another parent here called the situation "a perfect storm." That seems about right.

The most frustrating part of last night's discussion as far as I was concerned was watching Elizabeth Schultz. Rather than listen to the suggestions of both these principals -- who ought to know better than anyone what the "right" solution is for their communities -- she basically said that, well, kids are resilient, she moved around to many, many schools as a kid and turned out fine, and the most important thing was to "keep the cohort together." She seemed to want to needlessly move Cluster 1 families to Lemon Road during the construction period, despite the fact that they will not be continuing with their Cluster 2 friends in middle school or high school. Talk about short-term, reactionary solutions! Both principals felt there would be "critical mass" at both Lemon Road and Haycock next year, and that Haycock could continue with the renovation safely by adopting Janie Strauss' amendment. Ms. Schultz simply ignored them. It was so painful listening to her. She obviously thinks she knows best, and anyone else's opinion is irrelevant. Such arrogance. Be careful of these FEC veterans, guys. Thank goodness Dranesville didn't elect Louise Epstein or we'd be dealing with more of the same. Sheesh!

Yes, thank god that dreanesville has Janie Strauss, a 20yr school board veteran who would never let a school in her jurisdiction get to this level of crisis without convincing her colleagues to deal with the issue. Obviously she has done a great job for Haycock throughout the years.

[Anonymous]

18:40. My child is at a LLIV program that switched to a more inclusive program because of these reasons. Maybe at the center, children are better prepared, but I see these complaints coming especially from the larger centers and more recently from parents at the schools where new centers are being proposed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the Haycock solution is to take the AAP Center out of the school. That way the AAP teachers can relocate to an AAP Center at another school, and then the remaining general ed kids will still access elements of the AAP curriculum. The gifted kids will have a strong cohort at a newly located AAP Center with the experienced AAP Center teachers. It really is the best for everyone.

Um, except that not only does Haycock want the center, but it's one of the most successful centers in the county. That's why they have this overcrowding problem... They're a victim of their own success, as somebody at the School Board meeting said last night. Somebody even said to the principal last night that they'd be approaching her after this mess is all over to talk about "best practices" at AAP Centers. No one wants to move the AAP Center out of Haycock.

How is the center crowded because it's popular? It's not like people assigned to other centers can choose it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn't I read that FCPS standards require a "critical mass" of 50 students per grade level for an AAP center? Lemon Road will not meet this standard.

Projected to have 49 students (rising 3rd graders):

http://www.boarddocs.com/vsba/fairfax/Board.nsf/files/93UP3K62A8BD/$file/New%20Proposal%20ES_AAP%20Centers_011413.pdf

[Anonymous]

It sounded to me like ELizabeth Schultz felt they had not given enough thought to the Pimmit idea.

The Pimmit idea is dead. It was never a viable idea; that space would need millions in renovations to be useful and the Haycock renovation is coming this fall. Elizabeth Schultz was not advocating Pimmit; she was advocating Patty Reed's ideas about moving the entire 4th and 5th grades to Lemon Road immediately. That idea only came up last Friday, and has already run into opposition from both Haycock and Lemon Road principals... No, consideration has been given to that idea. It's just a bad idea. It's been proposed so that Patty Reed can say she's doing something to advocate for "her" people in Cluster 2. On the other hand, perhaps if she'd worked on this problem and advocated for "her" people in Cluster 2 years ago, they wouldn't be facing this terrible situation where their kids will be moving schools just a year or two after coming to Haycock. They could have created a center at Lemon Road this fall, and avoided this nastiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the Haycock solution is to take the AAP Center out of the school. That way the AAP teachers can relocate to an AAP Center at another school, and then the remaining general ed kids will still access elements of the AAP curriculum. The gifted kids will have a strong cohort at a newly located AAP Center with the experienced AAP Center teachers. It really is the best for everyone.

Um, except that not only does Haycock want the center, but it's one of the most successful centers in the county. That's why they have this overcrowding problem... They're a victim of their own success, as somebody at the School Board meeting said last night. Somebody even said to the principal last night that they'd be approaching her after this mess is all over to talk about "best practices" at AAP Centers. No one wants to move the AAP Center out of Haycock.

How is the center crowded because it's popular? It's not like people assigned to other centers can choose it.

Because people sell their homes and buy new ones in Haycock boundary so they can have a better shot for their kids to get into TJ