What should come first a diverse school faculty or a diverse student population?

[Anonymous]

NP here. I study teachers and teaching for a living. I also educate future teachers. I'm deeply committed to this work. That said, I'm not unique, except maybe, in that I spend a lot of time reading the research that is not being quoted in this thread.

Fact is, there is no conclusive research that indicates that kids are "better off" having teachers that look like them or share their race, gender, or SES. There are many reasons for this, including the difficulty in measuring something as ill defined as better off. Does better off mean more motivated? Higher test scores? Increased attendance? Increased classroom participation? Decreased behavioral issues? The experts cannot agree on the measureables behind what constitutes a successful teaching environment, and as such, the research will only be able to look at one factor in a limited setting and will not be truly helpful to the questions asked here.

That said, my gut and experience says that there's something to be said about the comfort level of students when they can identify and feel understood by their teachers. Many times, in the US of 2012, kids find it easiest and most comfortable to feel understood by teachers who look like themselves. While I would love to live in a post racial world where that was not true, the fact is, I don't and if I really care about students, I must consider this fact of the world I live in.

How do I deal with this? Well, of course, I go into overdrive recruiting AA teachers, especially AA male teachers, and I seek to aggressively diversify the teaching population to provide the most supportive learning environment for the students who live in the same world I do and because I know that all students, black or white, benefit from learning from a diverse pool of teachers.

The vast majority of teachers in this country are white, middle to upper middle class women. They are not unqualified to teach solely because they don't resemble the population they are teaching. But, they need, in my opinion, to be aware that, by not looking like their students, they miss an opportunity of trust and comfort and to be the best they can be, they need to establish an environment of real exchange. They need to be as open to learning from their students as they are in teaching them. They need education, support, an open mind and a steel heart. It isn't easy for anyone to be the only one of themselves in a room.

In terms of diversity studies, this may be the greatest challenge in teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I study teachers and teaching for a living. I also educate future teachers. I'm deeply committed to this work. That said, I'm not unique, except maybe, in that I spend a lot of time reading the research that is not being quoted in this thread.

Fact is, there is no conclusive research that indicates that kids are "better off" having teachers that look like them or share their race, gender, or SES. There are many reasons for this, including the difficulty in measuring something as ill defined as better off. Does better off mean more motivated? Higher test scores? Increased attendance? Increased classroom participation? Decreased behavioral issues? The experts cannot agree on the measureables behind what constitutes a successful teaching environment, and as such, the research will only be able to look at one factor in a limited setting and will not be truly helpful to the questions asked here.

That said, my gut and experience says that there's something to be said about the comfort level of students when they can identify and feel understood by their teachers. Many times, in the US of 2012, kids find it easiest and most comfortable to feel understood by teachers who look like themselves. While I would love to live in a post racial world where that was not true, the fact is, I don't and if I really care about students, I must consider this fact of the world I live in.

How do I deal with this? Well, of course, I go into overdrive recruiting AA teachers, especially AA male teachers, and I seek to aggressively diversify the teaching population to provide the most supportive learning environment for the students who live in the same world I do and because I know that all students, black or white, benefit from learning from a diverse pool of teachers.

The vast majority of teachers in this country are white, middle to upper middle class women. They are not unqualified to teach solely because they don't resemble the population they are teaching. But, they need, in my opinion, to be aware that, by not looking like their students, they miss an opportunity of trust and comfort and to be the best they can be, they need to establish an environment of real exchange. They need to be as open to learning from their students as they are in teaching them. They need education, support, an open mind and a steel heart. It isn't easy for anyone to be the only one of themselves in a room.

In terms of diversity studies, this may be the greatest challenge in teaching.

You raise some excellent points, but therein also lies a conundrum of "comfort level and being understood by teachers who look like themselves" where if AA students are never exposed to anyone who doesn't look and sound like themselves, as with any population in the same circumstance, without regular exposure, they will likely continue to be uncomfortable with anyone who isn't like them, and will likely continue passing on that discomfort to future generations, which is why a faculty demographic matched so tightly to the student demographic maybe isn't such a good idea.

[Anonymous]

You raise some excellent points, but therein also lies a conundrum of "comfort level and being understood by teachers who look like themselves" where if AA students are never exposed to anyone who doesn't look and sound like themselves, as with any population in the same circumstance, without regular exposure, they will likely continue to be uncomfortable with anyone who isn't like them, and will likely continue passing on that discomfort to future generations, which is why a faculty demographic matched so tightly to the student demographic maybe isn't such a good idea.

Thank you! You also make a great point and I don't disagree with you in terms of exposure (which is a long winded way of saying I agree with you). That said, I'm committed to a multi modal approach because my gut tells me that simply expecting students to buy into the idea of regular exposure is asking for a big leap of faith from (in many cases) young children and may not be as effective as an approach that recruits a diverse staff, engages in culturally sensitive PD, and asks both students and teachers to create a mutually respectful and rich learning environment.

In the end, I want to teach in a world that doesn't need closely matched demographics because the world respects the differences we all bring to the classroom. We're not there, not by a long shot, but I believe that every time we engage in conversations like this, and ask the tough questions, we are moving in the better direction.

[Anonymous]

You said there's no conclusive evidence to the issues of students doing better when taught by those of the same race. Well, the operative word is conclusive and that's all you hanging your hat on, then there's evidence out there that it is working. Some your most profound schools in this country was found on this very premise and are quite proficient in this decade.

C'mon DCPS built a high-school on the premise to serve solely an AA school population and has not apologized for it over the 40 years of existence. Nope, it is not Dunbar High School.

If your are going in overdrive to recruit then that might be the problem as it might seem you only want AA male teachers to fill a quota. Damn if you do and damned if you don't.

[Anonymous]

Long time Washington residents no doubt are familiar with the constant stream of task forces, initiatives and other important-sounding enterprises that pledge to tackle a certain issue and give it the attention it deserves. The problem, longtime Washington residents also know, is that the most effective outcomes often arise from actual, concrete policies instead of the formation of more committees to talk about the problems.

So it was a curious move by President Obama last week when, during remarks at the National Urban League conference, he announced the creation of a new initiative to improve educational outcomes for blacks.

The thing is, the president’s a bit behind on this one. That initiative already exists — it’s called school choice.

While the president’s executive order pledges to “work across Federal agencies and with partners and communities” to help improve educational outcomes for blacks, there is remarkable evidence across the country — no more so than here in the nation’s capital — that makes clear just how effective school-choice programs have been in improving the lives of black students.

Here in the District, where more than 90 percent of participants in the city’s D.C. Opportunity Scholarship program are black, youngsters are graduating at a rate of 91 percent — more than 30 points higher than the students in the city’s public schools, who also are overwhelmingly black. Youngsters who participate in the voucher program also show improved reading scores, according to a 2010 study from the Department of Education's Institute of Educational Sciences. Considering the president’s public statements about a desire to improve educational outcomes for our people, you’d think he would be a supporter of the voucher program, right?

The sad truth is that despite all the worthwhile education initiatives the president does support — including improving teacher and administrator quality, improving individual school quality, and making college readiness a more integral part of the course work for black students — he actively opposes perhaps the most important component of education reform, which can help youngsters of all races, including black students, and that’s expanded educational options for low-income families.

While he’s only on record in opposition to the District’s voucher program, similarly effective programs are in operation in some of the very places where he’s focusing his new initiative. Louisiana, where the president announced the plan, is one of the shining examples of how lives can change as a result of school choice. The state Department of Education recently awarded 5,600 scholarships for the state’s newly expanded voucher program, and nearly 5,000 of those awards — almost 88 percent — went to black families. This for a program that in its four years in New Orleans saw four consecutive parental satisfaction surveys reveal that no fewer than 93 percent of parents — again, the majority of whom were black — expressed satisfaction with their child’s school.

Mr. Obama’s idea of the best way to improve educational outcomes is through a host of federal initiatives, when in reality, we should be putting the power directly in the hands of the parents. As voucher programs across the country predominantly benefit families in large urban areas, black families often are the biggest winners.

The idea of vouchers, after all, began in Milwaukee, a city with a plurality black population. There, graduation rates are higher for voucher students than for those in the public schools, and students in the Milwaukee program are more likely to go to college and stay in college — one of the goals outlined by the president’s new initiative.

A statewide scholarship tax credit program in Florida, which is improving academic outcomes, graduating students at a higher rate, and improving the performance of public schools, enrolls more than 50 percent more black students than the public schools in those same communities.

It’s laudatory that the president recognizes and seems interested in combating the heartbreakingly high black dropout rate in this country, a rate that nearly doubles that of white students. Any additional attention on that reality is a welcome and appreciated move toward ultimately making education in this country a more equitably distributed system.

What is there to say of that aim if the tools he’s willing to use leave out such an important and proven effective component?

If the president is sincere about his desire to help black children achieve better educational outcomes — and I believe he is — it’s imperative that he make school choice and the D.C. Opportunity Scholarship program a part of this initiative.

After all, aren’t our young black boys and girls worth trying everything to save?

Kevin P. Chavous is a senior adviser to the American Federation for Children and the board chairman of the Black Alliance for Educational Options. He was a member of the D.C. Council for 12 years.



Read more: CHAVOUS: Obama must support school choice - Washington Times

[Anonymous]

The Chavous piece is making the case for charters.

[Anonymous]

You said there's no conclusive evidence to the issues of students doing better when taught by those of the same race. Well, the operative word is conclusive and that's all you hanging your hat on, then there's evidence out there that it is working. Some your most profound schools in this country was found on this very premise and are quite proficient in this decade.

C'mon DCPS built a high-school on the premise to serve solely an AA school population and has not apologized for it over the 40 years of existence. Nope, it is not Dunbar High School.

If your are going in overdrive to recruit then that might be the problem as it might seem you only want AA male teachers to fill a quota. Damn if you do and damned if you don't.

I'm violating my long time self imposed rule of never posting more than twice on a thread because you and I (assuming the same person, which, I know, is odd in this anonymous space) are having a good conversation and I care enough about this topic to respectfully disagree with you.

I never said that I was hanging my hat on conclusive data, rather I pointed out that conclusive data, which doesn't exist, *can't* exist because no one is in agreement with what constitutes "doing better". This is the hardest part about studying effective teaching...no one can quantify what it is. Which is exactly why we need a diverse strategy for student success. As for your evidence about what is working...as I said, it depends on your measure. What exactly are you referring to? What places are proficient? By what measures? How are those measures indicative of "doing better"? These are important questions that, if we want to get serious about parsing out what it means to be successful in teaching and learning, we have to discuss.

You also misrepresent my position when you suggest that the part of my multi model approach to reaching students that concerns recruiting AA teachers, especially males, is simply meeting a quota. I never said that and I certainly don't believe that. Read my post again. I suggested that by recruiting teachers who look like their students (which you seem to favor) we build a bridge that gains student trust, may well increase motivation, and can improve student experience. This isn't filling a quota, this is finding excellent educators, finding committed individuals who will make excellent educators, and putting them in the classroom.

This will likely be my last post here because of my self imposed rule. At some point, one is just trying to clarify the same cases and that is straight up boring to the internet. That said, thank you for giving me a lot to think about and for the good chat.

[Anonymous]

20:13, I respect your response and have learned from it. Thanks, I did misrepresent your statement.

[Anonymous]

What constitutes "doing better"?

There's no reason to get into any deep philosophical discussion or precise definitions.

We should start with reading and math.

If you can't master those two basic things then you won't master any of the many other things that depend on it. You need to have basic literacy and you need basic math to function in this world, regardless of race or culture. Not to mention, that the vast majority of the remainder of the curriculum depend on those - you need to be able to read for history class, for social studies, you need math for science and so on.

The CAS tests provide a basic measure - and even as dumbed-down as the DC CAS already is, it shows that a huge number of DC schools can't even manage to achieve basic literacy or math skills in any meaningful percentage of the student body.

That has to be solved first and foremost - teaching math and literacy - the basic survival skills needed in order to function effectively in our complex society, rather than spending time in idle navel-gazing contemplation about the rest. It's like trying to polish the hood of the car when the engine's blown - the car's useless if it can't run. Get the car running first!

[Anonymous]

I think the chicken should come first, right before he crosses the road.

[Anonymous]

Doing better can be misinterpreted as a negative only when someone believes that your best is not good enough.

[Anonymous]

Not good enough is the young people who aren't even literate enough to fill out a job application for themselves- which I've seen plenty of firsthand here in DC. Not good enough is the young people who don't know enough math to manage what little money they do manage to get and end up never having any stability or security in their lives.

We aren't talking about some fuzzy utopian ideal here, we are talking about hard realities.

[Anonymous]

Look I am at a government agency where there's an occupation that reaches salaries at 100k+. But many of the seasoned employees are considered "not good enough" because they are not college graduates or worst yet high-school drop outs.

Not good enough but a productive citizen, can't be all bad.