I’m "closet" anti-LBGT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm convinced it is a choice, but that societal pressures repress many from making that choice. So while I don't really care about it, I don't think we should provide civil, protected-class, type rights on something that is basically a choice.

And by "choice", what I mean is that there is some homo-hetero spectrum. Maybe less than 1% are on the extreme homo side where they are solely that way, and maybe 50% are solely hetero on the other side. But I think a good percentage, say 10-15% each, are close enough to the middle where they could honestly go either way based on circumstances in their upbringing and based on their life experiences.

Have you ever had a family member that is gay? Did you get to see them grow up? I have a gay family member. Let me tell you, I knew from the time he was 5 that he was going to be gay. For what it's worth, him and his straight brother were raised exactly the same. It's really not a choice and I can't believe people actually think that.

so every gay person is exactly like your brother? maybe he is the extreme (1% or whatever) that is 100% homo. I'm a hetero man, but I'm sure in different circumstances I would have a gay relationship. Say I was raised in ancient Greece or Rome and it was accepted. Or say I was in jail with all men for 20 years. Whatever, a mouth is a mouth. I just think it is not that obvious, and to say there is no choice just insults gay people even more so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m OP. I am reading every single post and your thoughts are helpful to me. I had a feeling some people would suggest that I have gay/lesbian tendencies. Far, far from it. I am not a swinger. Neither do I fear or dislike LGBT people. I am just like most of the posters here – “normal”. There is one person I don’t care much for, that’s Rick Santorum. IMO, I think he really has major social (and political) issues. He is scary to me. But, you may recall that a few weeks ago Santorum had a back-n-forth exchange about gay marriage with a college student in NH, and I think he made some really valid points. Google it. One of his lines of questions was asking the students (and others in the audience) if they thought that people should be legally allowed to have multiple spouses. The audience’s response was a clear “no”. Well, Santorum went on from there… So, if you support gay marriage, do you also think that polygamy should be law?

Btw, the princess/princess book in the pre-school is totally crazy! That’s what I mean by “aggressive”.

I support gay marriage, and I have absolutely no problem if we decide to legalize polygamy. If consenting adults want to get married, and that marriage has no real negative effect on society, then I see no reason to ban it.

That said, I think there are real differences between gay marriage and polygamy. First of all, practically speaking, our legal system is already set up to easily accommodate gay marriage. Spousal benefits, divorce law, child support, insurance, inheritance, etc., it's all based on a two-party contract, and there's no reason why a same-sex couple should cause any hiccups to the system. A marriage of three or more would be more difficult to accommodate -- how would we divide assets? Who would get survivor benefits? But I don't think that's an insurmountable obstacle.

I also think that the nature of a relationship between two people is different than one between three or more. I think the type of intimacy and trust is probably different (again, not better or worse, but different). But that's clearly no reason to ban polygamous marriage.

I know that, historically, polygamous marriages have lead to welfare fraud, child abuse, spousal abuse, etc. But we have laws already on the books to deal with that.

So, yeah. I have no problem with polygamous marriage. But I don't see us legalizing it any time soon, simply because the demand isn't there.

Here's a question for you, OP -- if the "two princes" preschool book is "aggressive," is a book about a prince and a princess an example of the aggressive heterosexual agenda?

OP responding. Thank you for your thoughts. I say "no" to your prince/princess heterosexual question. No "agenda" is needed -- it's an established tradition.

[Anonymous]

For some reason, I'm more accepting of lesbians than I am of gay men. The very juvenile mind of mine always wonders who's the "bottom" and who's the "top" and whenever I meet gay men, that is often what I'm fixated on (yes, I am a teenage boy in the body of a 32 year old woman). I have a DD, if she grows up to be a lesbian, I won't bat an eyelid and would welcome it with open arms. If my son grows up to be gay, I admit, I'd feel conflicted.

As for letting gay people get married, it may be *wrong* but I'm a firm believer in live and let live. The fact that they can marry doesn't take food off my plate so why should I care? They pay taxes and many are upstanding members of the society, just like me, so why are they not entitled to the same rights as I am?.

There are so many many wrongs in our society that deserves our focus and yet don't get it, gay marriage should be at the very bottom of that list, if at all. The world is already going to hell in a handbasket anyway, I don't think legalizing gay marriage will solidify that fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m OP. I am reading every single post and your thoughts are helpful to me. I had a feeling some people would suggest that I have gay/lesbian tendencies. Far, far from it. I am not a swinger. Neither do I fear or dislike LGBT people. I am just like most of the posters here – “normal”. There is one person I don’t care much for, that’s Rick Santorum. IMO, I think he really has major social (and political) issues. He is scary to me. But, you may recall that a few weeks ago Santorum had a back-n-forth exchange about gay marriage with a college student in NH, and I think he made some really valid points. Google it. One of his lines of questions was asking the students (and others in the audience) if they thought that people should be legally allowed to have multiple spouses. The audience’s response was a clear “no”. Well, Santorum went on from there… So, if you support gay marriage, do you also think that polygamy should be law?

Btw, the princess/princess book in the pre-school is totally crazy! That’s what I mean by “aggressive”.

I support gay marriage, and I have absolutely no problem if we decide to legalize polygamy. If consenting adults want to get married, and that marriage has no real negative effect on society, then I see no reason to ban it.

That said, I think there are real differences between gay marriage and polygamy. First of all, practically speaking, our legal system is already set up to easily accommodate gay marriage. Spousal benefits, divorce law, child support, insurance, inheritance, etc., it's all based on a two-party contract, and there's no reason why a same-sex couple should cause any hiccups to the system. A marriage of three or more would be more difficult to accommodate -- how would we divide assets? Who would get survivor benefits? But I don't think that's an insurmountable obstacle.

I also think that the nature of a relationship between two people is different than one between three or more. I think the type of intimacy and trust is probably different (again, not better or worse, but different). But that's clearly no reason to ban polygamous marriage.

I know that, historically, polygamous marriages have lead to welfare fraud, child abuse, spousal abuse, etc. But we have laws already on the books to deal with that.

So, yeah. I have no problem with polygamous marriage. But I don't see us legalizing it any time soon, simply because the demand isn't there.

Here's a question for you, OP -- if the "two princes" preschool book is "aggressive," is a book about a prince and a princess an example of the aggressive heterosexual agenda?

OP responding. Thank you for your thoughts. I say "no" to your prince/princess heterosexual question. No "agenda" is needed -- it's an established tradition.

It's an established tradition because we've been teaching our children that it is "normal." And the way this tradition is perpetuated is through an aggressive push to expose kids to it as "the norm." I just don't see why there's anything wrong with telling preschoolers about "two princes" if it's ok to tell them about a prince and a princess. We're not talking about sex -- we're talking about love.

[Anonymous]

WE ARE THE BIGOTS WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR.

Most of these posting are unbelievable. Everyone, of course, is find with their own quirks, but take aim at others choices? So some make you uncomfortable? Too bad. People used to be uncomfortable with Christians and Jews marrying, or blacks and whites marrying. It's time to look deep into the mirror and see the problem is staring right at you.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for making me wonder if some of our straight friends secretly think our marriage should be recognized.

[Anonymous]

meant shouldn't be recognized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm convinced it is a choice, but that societal pressures repress many from making that choice. So while I don't really care about it, I don't think we should provide civil, protected-class, type rights on something that is basically a choice.

And by "choice", what I mean is that there is some homo-hetero spectrum. Maybe less than 1% are on the extreme homo side where they are solely that way, and maybe 50% are solely hetero on the other side. But I think a good percentage, say 10-15% each, are close enough to the middle where they could honestly go either way based on circumstances in their upbringing and based on their life experiences.

Have you ever had a family member that is gay? Did you get to see them grow up? I have a gay family member. Let me tell you, I knew from the time he was 5 that he was going to be gay. For what it's worth, him and his straight brother were raised exactly the same. It's really not a choice and I can't believe people actually think that.

Yup -- I agree... there is something different in their wiring.
Anyone who has a boy and a girl know what I mean... their interests are just so inherently different.
And its not environment. When our daughter was growing up she had almost all boy toys around, from her brother. But when she would come across "girly" toys, she would instantly light up. This is from kids who are < 2yrs old.

The neighbors had an opposite experience with their younger boy. When he would see a train or ball, he would get excited.
It really surprises young parents, when they first see it.

People are really just wired with different preferences from the get-go (not to say that you don't change as you grow).
But I am convinced that most gays are physiologically pre-set.

[Anonymous]

A choice? Riiiight. I'm sure lots of people would choose a lifestyle that means discrimination and threads like this about them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for making me wonder if some of our straight friends secretly think our marriage should be recognized.

sad to think pp but they probably do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a hetero man, but I'm sure in different circumstances I would have a gay relationship. Say I was raised in ancient Greece or Rome and it was accepted. Or say I was in jail with all men for 20 years. Whatever, a mouth is a mouth. I just think it is not that obvious, and to say there is no choice just insults gay people even more so.

You're not gay, even if you did had sex with a men in those situations. You may be bi... but you ain't gay.
Prisoners in jail don't even consider themselves gay when they engage in homosexual acts. Its just what they need to do to get by.

Look, there room for all-shades of gay... as long as you aren't hurting others... its all good.

[Anonymous]

9:21PP - that was a very good, incredibly sensible post. Are you sure you belong on DCUM?

[Anonymous]

50-100 years from now, the younger generation will look back and wonder what we were smoking disallowing gay marriage. And our generation will look back and long for the times when "things made sense". Just like we look back now and marvel at the utter stupidity of slavery and segregation and older generations long for times when "things were simpler and everybody not only knew their place but stayed in it"

[Anonymous]

I hate when people classify ALL gay people into one category. The same people think bisexuals are selfish just because they are attracted to and have relationships with both sexes. If being gay is a choice, what does that say about bisexuality? Is it a choice also?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It does not fit the definition of a mental illness. Homosexuals are no different then heterosexuals.

How do you explain those kids that already have the gay lisp and are designing clothes and sashaying around at 10 years old? This shit definitely didn't happen when I was a kid--nor did boys trying to kiss boys on the elementary school playground.

How old are you? This shit definitely was happening when I was a kid... my cousin was one of them -- always into the "girly" things as a kid. And this was back in the 70s.
It surprised absolutely no one in our family when he came out.