Circus last night was great, by the way

[Anonymous]

the circus didn't involve cruelty to animals either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't focus any more energy on it than to NOT buy tickets and go. It's pretty easy.

Exactly. Wtf is wrong with people?

Hey 16:57, here's a clue--not everyone who boycotts the circus is a PETA activist. And here's something else. Most people have the rather amazing ability to care about more than one issue at once. You should try it sometime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the circus didn't involve cruelty to animals either.

well of course they're not going show what they do to the animals in front of paying customers. You'd have to sneak back to where they train them with a video camera.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:the circus didn't involve cruelty to animals either.

Wow. You really aren't very bright, are you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the circus didn't involve cruelty to animals either.

Wow. You really aren't very bright, are you?

taken from other board:
I do not attend gun shows, I do not eat at McDonald's, I'm about as liberal elite as they come, and, unlike (I suspect) any of the people responding to this thread, I have worked extensively with elephants as a zookeeper. My doctoral degree is in animal science, and I've worked with a large number of species in a variety of settings (in the wild, at nature centers, in zoos, etc.) Plus, in addition to my life revolving around my DS, it is also ruled by the beloved 2 dogs and adorable cat with whom I share my home.

This is to say that I consider myself both an animal lover and an animal expert.

I completely agree with the poster who said that you can make anything look bad out of context. If someone filmed my one year old son having blood drawn for a routine test last week or at his bris during week one, it would have looked like torture and child cruelty. Making a snap judgment about the way animals are treated at a circus - or people who attend the circus - based on one video produced by a group with an agenda just makes you look like a gullible idiot.

If you do more careful research, you might note that Ringling Brothers has a fantastic birthrate for Asian elephants. And I can tell you, from experience, that Asian elephants do not breed well under stressful conditions. It's one of the biggest challenges for conservation of the species. Ringling Brothers has been challenged innumerable times, by efforts far more sophisticated than the folks chattering on this board, by charges of animal cruelty and have been able to demonstrate, over and over again, that such charges are false.

The elephants I've worked with seemed to enjoy learning tricks (we used jelly beans as treats, primarily, and worked with their natural behaviors). It kept them from being bored when their primary activity in the wild - searching for food - has been lost with regular feeding. You would often see our elephants "practicing" on their own time. So while you may have a philosophical objection to animals learning tricks for human entertainment, I think it is incorrect to say that the learning of the tricks itself is a form of animal cruelty. Why is that any worse than teaching your dog to sit, come, or stay?

Which isn't to say all circuses are good. There are a lot of roadside circuses who are horribly cruel to their animals. I think our job as parents is to learn the difference, do the research, and teach our kids the signs of a healthy, happy animal. (Are they showing stereotypical behaviors? Are their ears back? Are they showing signs of nervousness?) This would also go a long way towards teaching kids how and whether to approach dogs and other animals safely.

For the record, I also don't think it's hypocritical to draw lines in your comfort zone for animal use. There are those who think we shouldn't use animals in any capacity. There are those who think medical research is OK, but recreational, food, or clothing uses are not. I myself object to animal fighting and the use of fur, but I eat meat, have pets, support the humane use of animals in medical research, and go to circuses and zoos. But those are informed choices, based on research and actual observation of animals in those situations, not based on ill-informed propaganda.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
taken from other board:
I do not attend gun shows, I do not eat at McDonald's, I'm about as liberal elite as they come, and, unlike (I suspect) any of the people responding to this thread, I have worked extensively with elephants as a zookeeper. My doctoral degree is in animal science, and I've worked with a large number of species in a variety of settings (in the wild, at nature centers, in zoos, etc.) Plus, in addition to my life revolving around my DS, it is also ruled by the beloved 2 dogs and adorable cat with whom I share my home.

This is to say that I consider myself both an animal lover and an animal expert.

I completely agree with the poster who said that you can make anything look bad out of context. If someone filmed my one year old son having blood drawn for a routine test last week or at his bris during week one, it would have looked like torture and child cruelty. Making a snap judgment about the way animals are treated at a circus - or people who attend the circus - based on one video produced by a group with an agenda just makes you look like a gullible idiot.

If you do more careful research, you might note that Ringling Brothers has a fantastic birthrate for Asian elephants. And I can tell you, from experience, that Asian elephants do not breed well under stressful conditions. It's one of the biggest challenges for conservation of the species. Ringling Brothers has been challenged innumerable times, by efforts far more sophisticated than the folks chattering on this board, by charges of animal cruelty and have been able to demonstrate, over and over again, that such charges are false.

The elephants I've worked with seemed to enjoy learning tricks (we used jelly beans as treats, primarily, and worked with their natural behaviors). It kept them from being bored when their primary activity in the wild - searching for food - has been lost with regular feeding. You would often see our elephants "practicing" on their own time. So while you may have a philosophical objection to animals learning tricks for human entertainment, I think it is incorrect to say that the learning of the tricks itself is a form of animal cruelty. Why is that any worse than teaching your dog to sit, come, or stay?

Which isn't to say all circuses are good. There are a lot of roadside circuses who are horribly cruel to their animals. I think our job as parents is to learn the difference, do the research, and teach our kids the signs of a healthy, happy animal. (Are they showing stereotypical behaviors? Are their ears back? Are they showing signs of nervousness?) This would also go a long way towards teaching kids how and whether to approach dogs and other animals safely.

For the record, I also don't think it's hypocritical to draw lines in your comfort zone for animal use. There are those who think we shouldn't use animals in any capacity. There are those who think medical research is OK, but recreational, food, or clothing uses are not. I myself object to animal fighting and the use of fur, but I eat meat, have pets, support the humane use of animals in medical research, and go to circuses and zoos. But those are informed choices, based on research and actual observation of animals in those situations, not based on ill-informed propaganda.

In that case, please feel free to post your evidence so we can all make informed choices.

[Anonymous]

Is it true they don't let you breast feed at the circus?

[Anonymous]

Boy, do I feel like a lemming right now. Just for posting here. No one who wasn't born yesterday heads a post "Re: Circus was great last night, BTW" without the express purpose of starting an argument. And we all bought into it. We all fed the troll (myself included even if this is my first post).Animal cruelty issues aside, I doubt very much if OP even attended a circus event. He/She was probably just looking to stir up some rhubarb on here. And boy, they got the whole pie, didn't they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boy, do I feel like a lemming right now. Just for posting here. No one who wasn't born yesterday heads a post "Re: Circus was great last night, BTW" without the express purpose of starting an argument. And we all bought into it. We all fed the troll (myself included even if this is my first post).Animal cruelty issues aside, I doubt very much if OP even attended a circus event. He/She was probably just looking to stir up some rhubarb on here. And boy, they got the whole pie, didn't they?

I feel sorry for you. Only on DCUM could a nice harmless post about going to the circus with your family be construed as an attempt to start an argument. Sad and pathetic. We have been going to the circus for 35 years, since I was a kid, and now my parents get a kick out of taking my kids. Hopefully in 30 years I will be taking my grandkids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
taken from other board:
I do not attend gun shows, I do not eat at McDonald's, I'm about as liberal elite as they come, and, unlike (I suspect) any of the people responding to this thread, I have worked extensively with elephants as a zookeeper. My doctoral degree is in animal science, and I've worked with a large number of species in a variety of settings (in the wild, at nature centers, in zoos, etc.) Plus, in addition to my life revolving around my DS, it is also ruled by the beloved 2 dogs and adorable cat with whom I share my home.

This is to say that I consider myself both an animal lover and an animal expert.

I completely agree with the poster who said that you can make anything look bad out of context. If someone filmed my one year old son having blood drawn for a routine test last week or at his bris during week one, it would have looked like torture and child cruelty. Making a snap judgment about the way animals are treated at a circus - or people who attend the circus - based on one video produced by a group with an agenda just makes you look like a gullible idiot.

If you do more careful research, you might note that Ringling Brothers has a fantastic birthrate for Asian elephants. And I can tell you, from experience, that Asian elephants do not breed well under stressful conditions. It's one of the biggest challenges for conservation of the species. Ringling Brothers has been challenged innumerable times, by efforts far more sophisticated than the folks chattering on this board, by charges of animal cruelty and have been able to demonstrate, over and over again, that such charges are false.

The elephants I've worked with seemed to enjoy learning tricks (we used jelly beans as treats, primarily, and worked with their natural behaviors). It kept them from being bored when their primary activity in the wild - searching for food - has been lost with regular feeding. You would often see our elephants "practicing" on their own time. So while you may have a philosophical objection to animals learning tricks for human entertainment, I think it is incorrect to say that the learning of the tricks itself is a form of animal cruelty. Why is that any worse than teaching your dog to sit, come, or stay?

Which isn't to say all circuses are good. There are a lot of roadside circuses who are horribly cruel to their animals. I think our job as parents is to learn the difference, do the research, and teach our kids the signs of a healthy, happy animal. (Are they showing stereotypical behaviors? Are their ears back? Are they showing signs of nervousness?) This would also go a long way towards teaching kids how and whether to approach dogs and other animals safely.

For the record, I also don't think it's hypocritical to draw lines in your comfort zone for animal use. There are those who think we shouldn't use animals in any capacity. There are those who think medical research is OK, but recreational, food, or clothing uses are not. I myself object to animal fighting and the use of fur, but I eat meat, have pets, support the humane use of animals in medical research, and go to circuses and zoos. But those are informed choices, based on research and actual observation of animals in those situations, not based on ill-informed propaganda.

In that case, please feel free to post your evidence so we can all make informed choices.

See, someone takes all this time to post a nice, sound argument and you have to be an @$$hole

[Anonymous]

Why is it being an asshole to ask for evidence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boy, do I feel like a lemming right now. Just for posting here. No one who wasn't born yesterday heads a post "Re: Circus was great last night, BTW" without the express purpose of starting an argument. And we all bought into it. We all fed the troll (myself included even if this is my first post).Animal cruelty issues aside, I doubt very much if OP even attended a circus event. He/She was probably just looking to stir up some rhubarb on here. And boy, they got the whole pie, didn't they?

I feel sorry for you. Only on DCUM could a nice harmless post about going to the circus with your family be construed as an attempt to start an argument. Sad and pathetic. We have been going to the circus for 35 years, since I was a kid, and now my parents get a kick out of taking my kids. Hopefully in 30 years I will be taking my grandkids.

Another lemming, just one of a different breed. Or just the OP perhaps sock puppeting the thread? I can't help but hope the latter because if it's the former, well, I just hope you don't drive a car on a regular basis.