When the reality of college cost hits. Cannot do dream school.

[Anonymous]

sorry 1.2x income. (some people say 2 x income, but I think my infomantion is better)

[Anonymous]

I put 185k income and 500k of assets and got 65k at yale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

That is exactly what Ivies (excluding Princeton) ask of families such as described. We were in the same position last year with slightly higher income and the schools asked for between $63k and $72k. It’s obscene how bad the financial aid is at the Ivy league level.

Not to be a turd by why do the schools "owe" you aid? Going to an Ivy is a privilege, not a right. If you can't make it work, I'm sorry. Lots of other great schools out there that might be cheaper.

And sorry if people have multiple kids. Should have thought about that before having more kids (I feel a bit worse for those with twins). I knew what I wanted to be able to pay for for my kids and that having more than two kids would prohibit that, so we stopped at two. Three would have been nice but the sacrifices weren't worth it. Plus the fact that you get more aid if you have two kids in college at the same time but less if kids are further apart? That makes no sense.

Because we as a country still like to believe in the myth of meritocracy, that elite college slots goes to those who earned it on merit, and that college is the gateway to upward social mobility. And these elite institutions with more money than entire countries pay virtually no taxes on the assumption that they're doing a public good and serving society.

And it's very fair to question the outrageous cost of higher education. It's like this nowhere else in the world. Even UVA in-state is over $40,000 per year. That is not accessible or affordable to the vast majority of Virginians. An undergrad can't borrow enough to cover even a quarter of that.

Upward social mobility isn't always zero to sixty in one step. Sometimes it is multi-generational. Poor FGLI kid goes to a good state school to step up the social class ladder. Then perhaps their kid makes the next jump to Ivies.

I am supportive of financial aid and helping families. But I think that schools have gone overboard with the virtue signaling and tripping over themselves to attract low income families. Some number of them is great, particularly the many who truly deserve to be there - as you said, "meritocracy." But diversity for the sake of diversity, which is currently often the case, is going too far. I think the NY Times had an article a year or two ago basically shaming schools for not having enough poor kids. Really? If it was zero I would get it. But they all had a fair amount and the Times was making huge generalizations saying the school with 12% is much worse than the one with 14%, which is basically statistical noise and still more than enough. I say this as a lifelong Democrat.

This is a weird take. Most people acknowledge that smart kids with raw talent can come from any income group. Most people who go to an elite college want to be surrounded by the best and the brightest. If only kids whose parents can afford nearly 100k per year to attend, the students won’t be the best and the brightest, and it won’t be the educational experience marketed.

Right now, most ivies have only about half of families receiving ANY aid at all. That means half come from families making enough money to shell out around 100k a year. That’s an insanely out-of-whack distribution. It means that most students come from the top 5% in terms of wealth, even though intelligence isn’t distributed accordingly. That’s worthy of criticism. It’s especially worthy of criticism when these schools have tens of billions in assets shielded from tax liability but exist to overwhelmingly serve the rich. It’s not right.

I'm supportive of financial aid. But I think it has gone too far. Big difference. The whole "you owe nothing if your family makes under $200k" irks me. I'm not saying give them nothing. But that is sufficient for them to have a little skin in the game. If you were consistently making $150k plus for a few years leading up to your kid going to college, you could have been saving a little bit. Not a lot. But something.

And your kid can get a job. Personally, I wish admissions committees screamed from the rooftops that they look favorably upon kids who work, including and particularly service jobs like waiters, scooping ice cream, or whatever else - it shows a good work ethic and builds character and people skills. I think this is much more impressive than most of the phony extra-curriculars that kids do.

Not a single school has a policy that generous. Princeton, the most generous by far, provides full rides for up to 150k with typical assets. The other “guarantees” with relatively high qualifying incomes are for “free tuition.” In other words, the families qualifying for free tuition are still on the hook for nearly 30k in costs. It ain’t free.

Fine. You are making $190k a year. You have free tuition so are on the hook for $30k a year. At $190k a year you hopefully were at least saving a few thousand a year. Plus your kid gets a job - full time in the summer, part time during school. And you cash flow a little bit. If you take out loans for the rest it isn't awful. I get not wanting to be burdened with 6-figure loans but they will be nowhere near that.

you dont automatically get free tuition if you are under 200k. you only get it if you have typical assets. that's 200k or 250k depending on school. some Ivies consider home equity in this. they all consider ALL kids 529s added together.

This is a ridiculous, nitpicky argument, but, for example, if there are 529s to be considered, then that is money specifically there to pay for college. So therefore the out of pocket is not fully coming from income. I tend to agree that only the 529 for the child in question should be considered (or perhaps add them up and divide by the number of kids so there is no funny business), but I definitely think they should count - that is the purpose of the vehicle.

Again - schools have no legal obligation to do any of this. They can do whatever they want. If you don't like it, go elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

I think it should count too.

But this is also why you're not going for free on the under 200k income.

I personally think retirement and primary home should count. You can withdraw from ROTH for college tuition with no penalty and you can take out a loan on your house easily enough. the idea that they can't be touched is ridiculous.

Add up ALL the numbers and take a smaller percentage. That makes a lot more sense to me than, ignore the 4mm house and the 4mm dental practice, and the 4mm retirement and only look at the 400k in that one account and - oh, how lucky - you didn't take a salary draw last year last year and left it in the business account. .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Note too that these are non-retirement assets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it should count too.

But this is also why you're not going for free on the under 200k income.

I personally think retirement and primary home should count. You can withdraw from ROTH for college tuition with no penalty and you can take out a loan on your house easily enough. the idea that they can't be touched is ridiculous.

Add up ALL the numbers and take a smaller percentage. That makes a lot more sense to me than, ignore the 4mm house and the 4mm dental practice, and the 4mm retirement and only look at the 400k in that one account and - oh, how lucky - you didn't take a salary draw last year last year and left it in the business account. .

Totally agree. There are too many gimmicks to avoid paying. So you get people paying too little ruining it for those who need the help. An acquaintance of mine was bragging on a semi-public message board about how brilliant he was for gaming the system. I wish he channeled his brilliance towards the greater good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Note too that these are non-retirement assets.

the problem is if you have one parent die in the last 5 years. you can't move much into retirement on 200k

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

Believe it. We make just over $200K and got $26K from Cornell. We did a re-fi on our house that we’ve owned for 20 years with great appreciation. We don’t have other debt. This approach is working for us.

School in question is Cornell.

Cornell is not worth the extra loan, selling home, and/or gap year. Some people like Cornell (esp if you’re from a large public high school) it plenty of people who can afford full pay never apply. There are at least 20 schools as good or better than Cornell. If your local public is UVA, Cornell is definitely not $200k better.

[Anonymous]

I know a kid who got into Princeton via QB this year bcs his dad didn't work ONE year. They have plenty of money. Even if they have to pay full price later on, this is def why he got in

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Note too that these are non-retirement assets.

the problem is if you have one parent die in the last 5 years. you can't move much into retirement on 200k

agree w this. a taxi driver who wins 500k lottery but has no retirement, doenst own a home etc will get less aid than IRA multi millionaires.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know a kid who got into Princeton via QB this year bcs his dad didn't work ONE year. They have plenty of money. Even if they have to pay full price later on, this is def why he got in

Lots of people find ways to accelerate or defer income, change job start dates, or whatever else to game the system. For as complicated as all of the paperwork is, it does not take into account any of this. Meanwhile, the working class person who has been at their government or whatever other job for years gets hosed. This is meant to benefit those types of people, not the small business owner who can play games but is living the life of luxury.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

this doesnt seem generous at all. my kids each 75-90k in 529s. we've been saving for 15 years. and we can't put money in Roths on our salary so we're limited by the 8k in tradition IRAs. we have about 200k in investments.

[Anonymous]

A friendly reminder that most of the ivies are involved in litigation headed to trial involving allegations that they all agreed to a common financial aid formula in order to reduce aid offered to middle class families and reduce price competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

Believe it. We make just over $200K and got $26K from Cornell. We did a re-fi on our house that we’ve owned for 20 years with great appreciation. We don’t have other debt. This approach is working for us.

School in question is Cornell.

Cornell is not worth the extra loan, selling home, and/or gap year. Some people like Cornell (esp if you’re from a large public high school) it plenty of people who can afford full pay never apply. There are at least 20 schools as good or better than Cornell. If your local public is UVA, Cornell is definitely not $200k better.

You are an idiot….all the rankings in the world including the foreign ones, disagree with you. But what do we know. You are clearly the expert here…..what a bunch of crap.