When the reality of college cost hits. Cannot do dream school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know interest rates stink but what about a HELOC off the value of the house?

Can the kid defer a year, live at home and work to save up some money?

Agree with above to challenge the aid calculation?

very bad advice except for the last statement. No undergrad education is worth messing up with life savings.
It’s sad and unfair, but the kid is bright. She can aim for top grad schools in her field. I know a kid who gave up Yale for a full ride at T40. He moved on pretty fast.

What is wrong with a gap year? I think this is a great idea. Lots of kids do it. The kid enters college much more mature. Ideally they do something they find interesting, or combine something interesting with something less interesting that pays better. If you are only doing it for a year, it is tolerable.

And if the home has truly appreciated that much, taking a relatively small HELOC isn't awful. Based on what others are saying, there are likely other assets here (like a 529) so I'm guessing the gap isn't that huge. There are other loans they could do but since they mentioned lots of home equity, I'm just throwing that out there.

[Anonymous]

To everyone comparing to NPC, sometimes they are simply inaccurate- whether that be because schools have different budgets this year or whichever other reason. DS, according to NPCs, would pay 25-35k at most Ivies. They received three acceptances on Thursday, all of which were from 45-60k. Other top 20 non-Ivy schools were much more generous. OP, I feel for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

That is exactly what Ivies (excluding Princeton) ask of families such as described. We were in the same position last year with slightly higher income and the schools asked for between $63k and $72k. It’s obscene how bad the financial aid is at the Ivy league level.

Not to be a turd by why do the schools "owe" you aid? Going to an Ivy is a privilege, not a right. If you can't make it work, I'm sorry. Lots of other great schools out there that might be cheaper.

And sorry if people have multiple kids. Should have thought about that before having more kids (I feel a bit worse for those with twins). I knew what I wanted to be able to pay for for my kids and that having more than two kids would prohibit that, so we stopped at two. Three would have been nice but the sacrifices weren't worth it. Plus the fact that you get more aid if you have two kids in college at the same time but less if kids are further apart? That makes no sense.

Because we as a country still like to believe in the myth of meritocracy, that elite college slots goes to those who earned it on merit, and that college is the gateway to upward social mobility. And these elite institutions with more money than entire countries pay virtually no taxes on the assumption that they're doing a public good and serving society.

And it's very fair to question the outrageous cost of higher education. It's like this nowhere else in the world. Even UVA in-state is over $40,000 per year. That is not accessible or affordable to the vast majority of Virginians. An undergrad can't borrow enough to cover even a quarter of that.

Upward social mobility isn't always zero to sixty in one step. Sometimes it is multi-generational. Poor FGLI kid goes to a good state school to step up the social class ladder. Then perhaps their kid makes the next jump to Ivies.

I am supportive of financial aid and helping families. But I think that schools have gone overboard with the virtue signaling and tripping over themselves to attract low income families. Some number of them is great, particularly the many who truly deserve to be there - as you said, "meritocracy." But diversity for the sake of diversity, which is currently often the case, is going too far. I think the NY Times had an article a year or two ago basically shaming schools for not having enough poor kids. Really? If it was zero I would get it. But they all had a fair amount and the Times was making huge generalizations saying the school with 12% is much worse than the one with 14%, which is basically statistical noise and still more than enough. I say this as a lifelong Democrat.

This is a weird take. Most people acknowledge that smart kids with raw talent can come from any income group. Most people who go to an elite college want to be surrounded by the best and the brightest. If only kids whose parents can afford nearly 100k per year to attend, the students won’t be the best and the brightest, and it won’t be the educational experience marketed.

Right now, most ivies have only about half of families receiving ANY aid at all. That means half come from families making enough money to shell out around 100k a year. That’s an insanely out-of-whack distribution. It means that most students come from the top 5% in terms of wealth, even though intelligence isn’t distributed accordingly. That’s worthy of criticism. It’s especially worthy of criticism when these schools have tens of billions in assets shielded from tax liability but exist to overwhelmingly serve the rich. It’s not right.

I'm supportive of financial aid. But I think it has gone too far. Big difference. The whole "you owe nothing if your family makes under $200k" irks me. I'm not saying give them nothing. But that is sufficient for them to have a little skin in the game. If you were consistently making $150k plus for a few years leading up to your kid going to college, you could have been saving a little bit. Not a lot. But something.

And your kid can get a job. Personally, I wish admissions committees screamed from the rooftops that they look favorably upon kids who work, including and particularly service jobs like waiters, scooping ice cream, or whatever else - it shows a good work ethic and builds character and people skills. I think this is much more impressive than most of the phony extra-curriculars that kids do.

Not a single school has a policy that generous. Princeton, the most generous by far, provides full rides for up to 150k with typical assets. The other “guarantees” with relatively high qualifying incomes are for “free tuition.” In other words, the families qualifying for free tuition are still on the hook for nearly 30k in costs. It ain’t free.

Fine. You are making $190k a year. You have free tuition so are on the hook for $30k a year. At $190k a year you hopefully were at least saving a few thousand a year. Plus your kid gets a job - full time in the summer, part time during school. And you cash flow a little bit. If you take out loans for the rest it isn't awful. I get not wanting to be burdened with 6-figure loans but they will be nowhere near that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I have a kid at yale and we pay full price on about 200k. we have some assets outside retirement due to an inheritance. We're limited to what we can move into retirement because of our medium-income. you can't just move it all over. We appealed and go nowhere. We're paying it. I told kid to make it count.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

[Anonymous]

We are full pay two kids- Ivies. $180k/year. Crazy we are the 25% minority with 75% getting aid, certainly not rolling around in our $$ or buying fancy cars.

[Anonymous]

OP, you didn’t fail your daughter; you simply prioritized other things in life and an Ivy education was not one of them.

A unhooked kid who got into an Ivy must have the profile and stats to get into other amazing schools too. If your DD has other great schools to choose from and you simply want to have the extra Ivy prestige, then you should have saved for that or given up other things in life for it. It’s a luxury; not a right or necessity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

That is exactly what Ivies (excluding Princeton) ask of families such as described. We were in the same position last year with slightly higher income and the schools asked for between $63k and $72k. It’s obscene how bad the financial aid is at the Ivy league level.

Not to be a turd by why do the schools "owe" you aid? Going to an Ivy is a privilege, not a right. If you can't make it work, I'm sorry. Lots of other great schools out there that might be cheaper.

And sorry if people have multiple kids. Should have thought about that before having more kids (I feel a bit worse for those with twins). I knew what I wanted to be able to pay for for my kids and that having more than two kids would prohibit that, so we stopped at two. Three would have been nice but the sacrifices weren't worth it. Plus the fact that you get more aid if you have two kids in college at the same time but less if kids are further apart? That makes no sense.

Because we as a country still like to believe in the myth of meritocracy, that elite college slots goes to those who earned it on merit, and that college is the gateway to upward social mobility. And these elite institutions with more money than entire countries pay virtually no taxes on the assumption that they're doing a public good and serving society.

And it's very fair to question the outrageous cost of higher education. It's like this nowhere else in the world. Even UVA in-state is over $40,000 per year. That is not accessible or affordable to the vast majority of Virginians. An undergrad can't borrow enough to cover even a quarter of that.

Upward social mobility isn't always zero to sixty in one step. Sometimes it is multi-generational. Poor FGLI kid goes to a good state school to step up the social class ladder. Then perhaps their kid makes the next jump to Ivies.

I am supportive of financial aid and helping families. But I think that schools have gone overboard with the virtue signaling and tripping over themselves to attract low income families. Some number of them is great, particularly the many who truly deserve to be there - as you said, "meritocracy." But diversity for the sake of diversity, which is currently often the case, is going too far. I think the NY Times had an article a year or two ago basically shaming schools for not having enough poor kids. Really? If it was zero I would get it. But they all had a fair amount and the Times was making huge generalizations saying the school with 12% is much worse than the one with 14%, which is basically statistical noise and still more than enough. I say this as a lifelong Democrat.

This is a weird take. Most people acknowledge that smart kids with raw talent can come from any income group. Most people who go to an elite college want to be surrounded by the best and the brightest. If only kids whose parents can afford nearly 100k per year to attend, the students won’t be the best and the brightest, and it won’t be the educational experience marketed.

Right now, most ivies have only about half of families receiving ANY aid at all. That means half come from families making enough money to shell out around 100k a year. That’s an insanely out-of-whack distribution. It means that most students come from the top 5% in terms of wealth, even though intelligence isn’t distributed accordingly. That’s worthy of criticism. It’s especially worthy of criticism when these schools have tens of billions in assets shielded from tax liability but exist to overwhelmingly serve the rich. It’s not right.

I'm supportive of financial aid. But I think it has gone too far. Big difference. The whole "you owe nothing if your family makes under $200k" irks me. I'm not saying give them nothing. But that is sufficient for them to have a little skin in the game. If you were consistently making $150k plus for a few years leading up to your kid going to college, you could have been saving a little bit. Not a lot. But something.

And your kid can get a job. Personally, I wish admissions committees screamed from the rooftops that they look favorably upon kids who work, including and particularly service jobs like waiters, scooping ice cream, or whatever else - it shows a good work ethic and builds character and people skills. I think this is much more impressive than most of the phony extra-curriculars that kids do.

Not a single school has a policy that generous. Princeton, the most generous by far, provides full rides for up to 150k with typical assets. The other “guarantees” with relatively high qualifying incomes are for “free tuition.” In other words, the families qualifying for free tuition are still on the hook for nearly 30k in costs. It ain’t free.

Fine. You are making $190k a year. You have free tuition so are on the hook for $30k a year. At $190k a year you hopefully were at least saving a few thousand a year. Plus your kid gets a job - full time in the summer, part time during school. And you cash flow a little bit. If you take out loans for the rest it isn't awful. I get not wanting to be burdened with 6-figure loans but they will be nowhere near that.

you dont automatically get free tuition if you are under 200k. you only get it if you have typical assets. that's 200k or 250k depending on school. some Ivies consider home equity in this. they all consider ALL kids 529s added together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

Believe it. We make just over $200K and got $26K from Cornell. We did a re-fi on our house that we’ve owned for 20 years with great appreciation. We don’t have other debt. This approach is working for us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My niece got into her dream school, an Ivy. Cannot make the numbers work, two-teacher family making just over 200k, expected to contribute 75k per year (roughly 20k per year in aid), have two other kids (twins three years younger), sizable medical expenses. They simply bought a home at a good time and have a lot of equity, ruining financial aid calculations, and they aren't selling their house to pay for college. My sister is heartbroken and feels like she failed her kid. This is not a good feeling.

if it's HYP or Wharton, the should pay it. it's worth it.

I would personally tell kid: we expect you to pay 15k a year, take out the federal loans at 5k+ a year and we'll personally loan you the other 10k a year. OR, if get an RA position there will be no loan for the year. we'll pay 60k a year. that's the deal if you want one of these schools.

if it's any other Ivy and she has other options that are equally good, I'd encourage those other options.

[Anonymous]

I also feel like *some* loans are fine. We've swung too far the other way. Everyone I went to college with had 20k in loans and that was in the last century. A kid should be able to carry 50k in loans and pay them off in their 20s (or so)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

Believe it. We make just over $200K and got $26K from Cornell. We did a re-fi on our house that we’ve owned for 20 years with great appreciation. We don’t have other debt. This approach is working for us.

School in question is Cornell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.