When the reality of college cost hits. Cannot do dream school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

That is exactly what Ivies (excluding Princeton) ask of families such as described. We were in the same position last year with slightly higher income and the schools asked for between $63k and $72k. It’s obscene how bad the financial aid is at the Ivy league level.

Not to be a turd by why do the schools "owe" you aid? Going to an Ivy is a privilege, not a right. If you can't make it work, I'm sorry. Lots of other great schools out there that might be cheaper.

And sorry if people have multiple kids. Should have thought about that before having more kids (I feel a bit worse for those with twins). I knew what I wanted to be able to pay for for my kids and that having more than two kids would prohibit that, so we stopped at two. Three would have been nice but the sacrifices weren't worth it. Plus the fact that you get more aid if you have two kids in college at the same time but less if kids are further apart? That makes no sense.

Seriously! My spouse and I work hard and saved from when kids are little for college. No one owes this family anything, they could've saved.

[Anonymous]

Not much sympathy. Teachers typically have summer gigs while we all work through the summer, tutor and get cash on the side, pensions, full health insurance, school break time off AND PTO and sick time. Am I missing something?? I work a normal job and get 3 weeks a year and a bit of sick time and 6 holidays. My vacations are college visits to show demonstrated interest. We managed to save from when kid was little for full pay T10. Best feeling to tell my kid we thought about his future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not much sympathy. Teachers typically have summer gigs while we all work through the summer, tutor and get cash on the side, pensions, full health insurance, school break time off AND PTO and sick time. Am I missing something?? I work a normal job and get 3 weeks a year and a bit of sick time and 6 holidays. My vacations are college visits to show demonstrated interest. We managed to save from when kid was little for full pay T10. Best feeling to tell my kid we thought about his future.

They’re likely able to clear 200k because they’re working second jobs in the summer. Also most teachers get like 2-3 personal days a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

That is exactly what Ivies (excluding Princeton) ask of families such as described. We were in the same position last year with slightly higher income and the schools asked for between $63k and $72k. It’s obscene how bad the financial aid is at the Ivy league level.

Not to be a turd by why do the schools "owe" you aid? Going to an Ivy is a privilege, not a right. If you can't make it work, I'm sorry. Lots of other great schools out there that might be cheaper.

And sorry if people have multiple kids. Should have thought about that before having more kids (I feel a bit worse for those with twins). I knew what I wanted to be able to pay for for my kids and that having more than two kids would prohibit that, so we stopped at two. Three would have been nice but the sacrifices weren't worth it. Plus the fact that you get more aid if you have two kids in college at the same time but less if kids are further apart? That makes no sense.

Seriously! My spouse and I work hard and saved from when kids are little for college. No one owes this family anything, they could've saved.

The family realistically could not have saved *checks notes* $360,000 per kid (i.e. over $1,000,000).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers are generally among the best off on these calculations. They are considered year round employees but have school breaks and (largely) summers off so don’t need to pay for childcare like others who are employed in a regular full time schedule. They also often have pensions available and that deferred compensation has them assessed at an artificially low income level when applying for aid. I’d think with your extended family’s kids ages that the parents would be able to find additional work over the summer to increase income. I’ve a good friend who is a middle school teacher earning over $25,000 extra each summer doing private tutoring (not kids from her school). Maybe your family members could increase earnings that way?

I’m virtually certain they’re hitting200k household income because they’re working summers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hear you. We have a higher AGI than this but lower assets (renters, no home ownership). We decided to tell our son upfront that there was a whole band of schools we could not afford that would also almost certainly not give him any aid, and it was sad. Still is sad. So far he's only visited that are in-state affordable or known for giving lots of merit scholarships. It means several schools we know would be perfect for him are off the table from the get-go. We don't make enough to pay full price for two kids . . . and we make too much to get need-based aid.

You did the right thing as painful as setting realistic expectations can be. It is difficult because young people often chase a dream (a good thing) and their self image gets caught up in it all when the dreams look achievable. I come from single mother drug and alcohol addiction driven poverty. As a result I promised my two they could go anywhere - unfortunately a commitment that was as much about me as it was for them. Full pay at Princeton a struggle, but did it with no debt. I had a decent salary but better investment strategy. Started off as a futures trader in Chicago in my early 20’s and invested it all. I don’t think the value of the Ivy Keague was great but no matter - doing what I said I would do counted. And setting those expectations is key. I applaud you for doing so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My niece got into her dream school, an Ivy. Cannot make the numbers work, two-teacher family making just over 200k, expected to contribute 75k per year (roughly 20k per year in aid), have two other kids (twins three years younger), sizable medical expenses. They simply bought a home at a good time and have a lot of equity, ruining financial aid calculations, and they aren't selling their house to pay for college. My sister is heartbroken and feels like she failed her kid. This is not a good feeling.

I think that, even at alleged need-blind schools, getting a weak, inflexible aid package is a sign that the school isn’t that excited about the student.

The problem with jumping through hoops to pay for a school like that is that it might be too hard or too snobbish.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not much sympathy. Teachers typically have summer gigs while we all work through the summer, tutor and get cash on the side, pensions, full health insurance, school break time off AND PTO and sick time. Am I missing something?? I work a normal job and get 3 weeks a year and a bit of sick time and 6 holidays. My vacations are college visits to show demonstrated interest. We managed to save from when kid was little for full pay T10. Best feeling to tell my kid we thought about his future.

Too bad your empathy skills aren't quite equal to your savings prowess. My sister and her husband do work summers to even make 200k. I also have sizable medical expenses due to a chronic condition. I'm sorry that your work benefits aren't particularly good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teachers are generally among the best off on these calculations. They are considered year round employees but have school breaks and (largely) summers off so don’t need to pay for childcare like others who are employed in a regular full time schedule. They also often have pensions available and that deferred compensation has them assessed at an artificially low income level when applying for aid. I’d think with your extended family’s kids ages that the parents would be able to find additional work over the summer to increase income. I’ve a good friend who is a middle school teacher earning over $25,000 extra each summer doing private tutoring (not kids from her school). Maybe your family members could increase earnings that way?

I’m virtually certain they’re hitting200k household income because they’re working summers.

Bingo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not much sympathy. Teachers typically have summer gigs while we all work through the summer, tutor and get cash on the side, pensions, full health insurance, school break time off AND PTO and sick time. Am I missing something?? I work a normal job and get 3 weeks a year and a bit of sick time and 6 holidays. My vacations are college visits to show demonstrated interest. We managed to save from when kid was little for full pay T10. Best feeling to tell my kid we thought about his future.

Too bad your empathy skills aren't quite equal to your savings prowess. My sister and her husband do work summers to even make 200k. I also have sizable medical expenses due to a chronic condition. I'm sorry that your work benefits aren't particularly good.

*they. Maybe you can negotiate a better benefits package?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

That is exactly what Ivies (excluding Princeton) ask of families such as described. We were in the same position last year with slightly higher income and the schools asked for between $63k and $72k. It’s obscene how bad the financial aid is at the Ivy league level.

Not to be a turd by why do the schools "owe" you aid? Going to an Ivy is a privilege, not a right. If you can't make it work, I'm sorry. Lots of other great schools out there that might be cheaper.

And sorry if people have multiple kids. Should have thought about that before having more kids (I feel a bit worse for those with twins). I knew what I wanted to be able to pay for for my kids and that having more than two kids would prohibit that, so we stopped at two. Three would have been nice but the sacrifices weren't worth it. Plus the fact that you get more aid if you have two kids in college at the same time but less if kids are further apart? That makes no sense.

Seriously! My spouse and I work hard and saved from when kids are little for college. No one owes this family anything, they could've saved.

Do you have medical issues? People can save, work "hard," and still come up short for a variety of reasons. It doesn't mean their kid is "owed" an Ivy League education. It means it stings to disappoint your child. Do you see the distinction?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not much sympathy. Teachers typically have summer gigs while we all work through the summer, tutor and get cash on the side, pensions, full health insurance, school break time off AND PTO and sick time. Am I missing something?? I work a normal job and get 3 weeks a year and a bit of sick time and 6 holidays. My vacations are college visits to show demonstrated interest. We managed to save from when kid was little for full pay T10. Best feeling to tell my kid we thought about his future.

You're nuts. The "teachers get the summer off" is a myth. Teachers work through the evenings and weekends for very little pay but an enormous amount of stress teaching your kids during the school year. Summers are often used for PD and catching up on regular routine things such as going to the dentist. I never heard of a teacher taking a summer gig that paid substantially. Have some sympathy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not much sympathy. Teachers typically have summer gigs while we all work through the summer, tutor and get cash on the side, pensions, full health insurance, school break time off AND PTO and sick time. Am I missing something?? I work a normal job and get 3 weeks a year and a bit of sick time and 6 holidays. My vacations are college visits to show demonstrated interest. We managed to save from when kid was little for full pay T10. Best feeling to tell my kid we thought about his future.

You're nuts. The "teachers get the summer off" is a myth. Teachers work through the evenings and weekends for very little pay but an enormous amount of stress teaching your kids during the school year. Summers are often used for PD and catching up on regular routine things such as going to the dentist. I never heard of a teacher taking a summer gig that paid substantially. Have some sympathy.

I know. The teachers in my district often wait tables. The cluelessness and insularity here is astounding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe you

This is an odd post.

Under the circumstances OP has described, I don't believe an Ivy would require the parents to pay 75k. I just don't.

I’m actually with this person. All of the Ivies either exclude home equity or cap it at a low multiple of income when considering how much the parents have in assets. Most (all?) also take into account medical expenses not covered by insurance.

I ran the Columbia (who I think uses the highest multiple of income for home equity) NPC calculator quickly with the limited info OP provided and some generous assumptions and it only had a family contribution of $19k, with Columbia picking up $78k. There are some major assets missing from this story.

I ran it again with even more generous (and probably unrealistic) assumptions and it spit out a family contribution of $29k with Columbia covering $68k. Something is missing here.

Did op kid get into ivy or columbia? Why are you mentioning Columbia?

Because, as stated before, Columbia is the harshest Ivy with regard to home equity. So if home equity is truly the problem, Columbia should spit out the least favorable number. Everywhere else would be better for a high home equity case. And yet the expected contribution from Columbia is still quite low.

Hence, there are missing assets from this story.

harshest how? yale doesn't exclude any real estate, even primary.

Yale is more opaque about how they calculate EFC. In any event, I ran the Yale NPC with $1.2 million in home equity and a handful of other assets and it still spit out a family contribution of $31k, with Yale covering $60k. Still something missing.

on what income? I asked Yale about this and it's 1x income. also what did you put in as a "handful" of other assets. like what about the 529s for 3 kids.

See, I believe Columbia is 2x income which I why I used that originally.

Assumptions for Yale were $200k income, $5k in interest/dividend income, $70k in checking/savings, $50k in investments, $50k additional in sibling assets, $5k in income and assets each for the student. $1.2 million in home equity as previously indicated. Seem like fairly generous assumptions.

Did the same for Cornell and it spit out $42k in contribution with the school covering $51k. Getting closer but still not that close.

Agree there are large missing assets to this story. Or. OP is a troll.

I stated explicitly in my original post that my sister has a good deal of home equity but it's not about to sell her long time home to send her child to college. I think we can all agree that the middle class gets screwed in this process. Several other teachers have commented here in similar situations. You make too much for meaningful aid but not nearly enough that you can afford such a huge sticker price. And people should not have to sell their houses to send their kids to college. Which my sister is not going to do. My niece will probably end up at her state flagship and be fine. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't stink to have to tell your child that you cannot afford their dream college after they work their butt off for years and years. Can't we all agree on that?

I think most people can agree with that. But the point of some of these comments is that the numbers don’t make sense based purely on what you described. $200k income and high home equity with sizable medical expenses mixed in (which are generally considered) doesn’t get you a $75k bill. So the point people are making is that there are some other assets somewhere. Whether these are easily usable for college is unknown but there is some part of the picture that is missing.

Yup. I am another poster who believes the math just doesn't add up. This is a highly unusual situation and there must be other circumstances the OP is not disclosing, such as family inheritance, or other assets. Go and work the cost estimators for the ivy schools or top SLAC and they are far more generous. The FA scenario described is more common for a decent but not top dream school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People, attending an Ivy is not a life or death situation. She will be fine elsewhere. The family does not need to sell the house, get a HELOC, or sell a kidney.

The Ivy worship on this site is insane.

So true. It's weird.