Bishop O'connell Baseball

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who says the kid cut from baseball didn't fill that time with something else, like babe ruth baseball, their travel baseball team, a job etc.?

I'm sure they are but the travel teams don't play against competitive teams in the spring when most boys are playing HS ball. ASBR is a rec league and most kids can't catch a ball.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says the kid cut from baseball didn't fill that time with something else, like babe ruth baseball, their travel baseball team, a job etc.?

I'm sure they are but the travel teams don't play against competitive teams in the spring when most boys are playing HS ball. ASBR is a rec league and most kids can't catch a ball.

How many colleges are going to care about that at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who says the kid cut from baseball didn't fill that time with something else, like babe ruth baseball, their travel baseball team, a job etc.?

Of course they can, but it doesn’t look like the same level of commitment from a college application perspective. Many of these kids chose BOC pretty sure they’d be able to make a team and knowing it’s not as competitive of an environment as some other schools like SJC. They’ve now been blindsided.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Bishop OC had like 10 transfers come in this year. It might of bumped some kids out of the program. It's hard sustain recruiting 8th graders if you are just bringing in transfers to take their spots.

+1. Many current parents NOT happy. They supported the program for two years only to have their kids recruited over by junior transfers out of the travel program run by the coach. So not cool.

I don't mean to come off insensitive with this post but my kids have gone through this process and I think this advice needs to be heard. Players and families need to understand that at the WCAC High School Varsity level, the Coaches job is to put the best team on the field every year and to win games. Players need to take the position that they are replaceable and the coach is always looking for better players that will help him/her win. It could be that the kid who is already in the program continues to develop into the better player or they can find someone outside the program who is better. The transfer route is certainly a much quicker and easier option for a coach. And it only gets worse with every level that a player moves up. There are no guarantees for playing time. There is very little loyalty. The sooner you can get your arms around that fact, the better off your player is going to be moving forward. If you want to play this game at a high level, you need to learn to focus on your own development and providing tangible value to a team. If you perform and you are a good teammate, you make yourself harder to replace. But don't believe for a minute that they aren't trying.

This is certainly true in college and pros. But that’s what you sign up for. At the HS level this is just lazy coaching and bad for a kids mental health. The best WCAC baseball program of the past decade does not take local transfers. They appear to get better the old fashioned way.

That is completely dependent upon the coach. The SJC's football coach makes it clear they will look for lateral transfers (at least the prior coach...the new GC coach is having a bunch of GC lateral transfers that he recruited to GC, but not sure if he will look for laterals going forward).

It's completely up to the coach for how they want to run the team. The only ethical obligation is that the coach makes that clear to any recruits before they decide to attend.

Also, the very same SJC baseball program that does not take local transfers...is also a fairly decent source of local transfers to other programs. I think at least two BOC junior transfers are coming from SJC.

New SJC coach who came over from GC is having a bunch of lateral transfers from GC to SJC.

This is pure insanity. These are teenagers we’re talking about. What are we doing treating high school sports this way?

The top athletic WCAC schools are increasingly moving to a “college” model where they now play a decent percent of national games (football plays 60% of schedule national…basketball is like 30% but the DMV has many top 50 national teams, so you don’t have to travel more…etc.).

These schools will increasingly rely on more lateral transfers to compete with Mater Dei and other national powerhouses, both for the competitive boost and the significant NIL $$$$s.

Mater Dei signed a multi-million $$$ NIL deal (paid to the school) last year and others are looking to adopt the model.

I guess the issue is if BOC is really in the same league or not…though if SJC et al bring in lateral transfers, then the displaced kids will be looking for a new home at the BOCs of the world I guess.

Our DS was recruited by SJC and the coach made very clear they do not accept local transfers into the program. I’m sure if a kid moved from out of state that would be different. In return for that loyalty they expected a complete year round commitment. Pros and cons to both approaches, I guess. Our son did not enroll but has complete respect for the dedication of their players.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says the kid cut from baseball didn't fill that time with something else, like babe ruth baseball, their travel baseball team, a job etc.?

Of course they can, but it doesn’t look like the same level of commitment from a college application perspective. Many of these kids chose BOC pretty sure they’d be able to make a team and knowing it’s not as competitive of an environment as some other schools like SJC. They’ve now been blindsided.

What colleges are we talking about? Outside of maybe 50 colleges total (top 30 national and top 20 SLACs), colleges really don't care much beyond rigor of schedule, GPA and test scores.

For the top colleges, if you are not a recruited athlete, they expect top rigor, top GPA, top scores and that you are doing impressive things other than just playing a varsity sport (because again, you aren't a recruited athlete). Again, you are talking about kids who aren't even a team captain, but just on the team. Colleges are well aware that there are some kids on the baseball team who make Varsity and literally almost never get into a game...they get thrown in as a pinch runner for the Senior Game and that's it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bishop OC had like 10 transfers come in this year. It might of bumped some kids out of the program. It's hard sustain recruiting 8th graders if you are just bringing in transfers to take their spots.

+1. Many current parents NOT happy. They supported the program for two years only to have their kids recruited over by junior transfers out of the travel program run by the coach. So not cool.

I don't mean to come off insensitive with this post but my kids have gone through this process and I think this advice needs to be heard. Players and families need to understand that at the WCAC High School Varsity level, the Coaches job is to put the best team on the field every year and to win games. Players need to take the position that they are replaceable and the coach is always looking for better players that will help him/her win. It could be that the kid who is already in the program continues to develop into the better player or they can find someone outside the program who is better. The transfer route is certainly a much quicker and easier option for a coach. And it only gets worse with every level that a player moves up. There are no guarantees for playing time. There is very little loyalty. The sooner you can get your arms around that fact, the better off your player is going to be moving forward. If you want to play this game at a high level, you need to learn to focus on your own development and providing tangible value to a team. If you perform and you are a good teammate, you make yourself harder to replace. But don't believe for a minute that they aren't trying.

This is certainly true in college and pros. But that’s what you sign up for. At the HS level this is just lazy coaching and bad for a kids mental health. The best WCAC baseball program of the past decade does not take local transfers. They appear to get better the old fashioned way.

That is completely dependent upon the coach. The SJC's football coach makes it clear they will look for lateral transfers (at least the prior coach...the new GC coach is having a bunch of GC lateral transfers that he recruited to GC, but not sure if he will look for laterals going forward).

It's completely up to the coach for how they want to run the team. The only ethical obligation is that the coach makes that clear to any recruits before they decide to attend.

Also, the very same SJC baseball program that does not take local transfers...is also a fairly decent source of local transfers to other programs. I think at least two BOC junior transfers are coming from SJC.

New SJC coach who came over from GC is having a bunch of lateral transfers from GC to SJC.

This is pure insanity. These are teenagers we’re talking about. What are we doing treating high school sports this way?

The top athletic WCAC schools are increasingly moving to a “college” model where they now play a decent percent of national games (football plays 60% of schedule national…basketball is like 30% but the DMV has many top 50 national teams, so you don’t have to travel more…etc.).

These schools will increasingly rely on more lateral transfers to compete with Mater Dei and other national powerhouses, both for the competitive boost and the significant NIL $$$$s.

Mater Dei signed a multi-million $$$ NIL deal (paid to the school) last year and others are looking to adopt the model.

I guess the issue is if BOC is really in the same league or not…though if SJC et al bring in lateral transfers, then the displaced kids will be looking for a new home at the BOCs of the world I guess.

Our DS was recruited by SJC and the coach made very clear they do not accept local transfers into the program. I’m sure if a kid moved from out of state that would be different. In return for that loyalty they expected a complete year round commitment. Pros and cons to both approaches, I guess. Our son did not enroll but has complete respect for the dedication of their players.

Yes, the SJC baseball coach has this approach, but football coach doesn't...not sure basketball coach does either. It's really up to the discretion of the coach.

The flip side is that SJC baseball is the source of many lateral transfers because of the way he runs the team. The starters and top 5 pitchers basically play all the time...even if the team is beating say The Heights by 15 runs, they still have their starters in the game. Two of the lateral BOC baseball transfers are SJC kids who are very good players...just outside the top 10, which means they don't get to play much at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bishop OC had like 10 transfers come in this year. It might of bumped some kids out of the program. It's hard sustain recruiting 8th graders if you are just bringing in transfers to take their spots.

+1. Many current parents NOT happy. They supported the program for two years only to have their kids recruited over by junior transfers out of the travel program run by the coach. So not cool.

I don't mean to come off insensitive with this post but my kids have gone through this process and I think this advice needs to be heard. Players and families need to understand that at the WCAC High School Varsity level, the Coaches job is to put the best team on the field every year and to win games. Players need to take the position that they are replaceable and the coach is always looking for better players that will help him/her win. It could be that the kid who is already in the program continues to develop into the better player or they can find someone outside the program who is better. The transfer route is certainly a much quicker and easier option for a coach. And it only gets worse with every level that a player moves up. There are no guarantees for playing time. There is very little loyalty. The sooner you can get your arms around that fact, the better off your player is going to be moving forward. If you want to play this game at a high level, you need to learn to focus on your own development and providing tangible value to a team. If you perform and you are a good teammate, you make yourself harder to replace. But don't believe for a minute that they aren't trying.

This is certainly true in college and pros. But that’s what you sign up for. At the HS level this is just lazy coaching and bad for a kids mental health. The best WCAC baseball program of the past decade does not take local transfers. They appear to get better the old fashioned way.

Do you object to schools like TJ for the same reasons?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who says the kid cut from baseball didn't fill that time with something else, like babe ruth baseball, their travel baseball team, a job etc.?

Of course they can, but it doesn’t look like the same level of commitment from a college application perspective. Many of these kids chose BOC pretty sure they’d be able to make a team and knowing it’s not as competitive of an environment as some other schools like SJC. They’ve now been blindsided.

OMG, you can't even see the problem. You said: "Many of these kids chose BOC pretty sure they’d be able to make a team..."
That's a terrible reason to pick a school for one, so nobody should be feeling sorry for this family.
For another, you are basically admitting they chose BOC because they're "pretty sure they'd be able to make a team" SO THEY CAN JUST PUT ON THEIR COLLEGE APPLICATION, HEY I MADE THIS TEAM EVEN THOUGH IT WASN'T THAT HARD, MAN, I'M SO GREAT. Why not just transfer to a public like AHS or Justice where you can make all the teams due to lack of participation and be officers in many clubs just for showing up if it's that important to pad your college application.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So juniors cut have no option for high school baseball not even back down to JV because of the local transfers? Meanwhile, freshman primetime kids from an average team make JV?

+1. At least give the kid a jersey and let him be on varsity so he can list it on his college applications. Playing time is a totally different matter. Best players, play. Everyone gets that.

Agree. Its terrible for the kids who put in all the work for the past 2 years and now likely wont have a Varsity letter for college apps.

Do kids going to a WCAC school really need that varsity letter on the college app?

No...the reality is that if you aren't a recruited athlete, then just playing a sport is a line item on the app, but nobody cares much (and if not recruited, they don't care if you played Varsity of JV or a Club sport...it's an activity).

This is just blatantly incorrect. Colleges 100% know what it takes to be part of a varsity sport versus attending the inner peace club activity.

No. The previous PP is correct. If a student is not a recruited athlete then playing a high school sport (varsity or jv or club, etc.) is simply just another EC to college admissions folks. Unless you are being recruited for your sport, it does not move the needle any more or any less than any other EC. I used to read college applications as recently as 2 years ago and am still a member of a private college app reader board. We discuss this fairly often.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So juniors cut have no option for high school baseball not even back down to JV because of the local transfers? Meanwhile, freshman primetime kids from an average team make JV?

+1. At least give the kid a jersey and let him be on varsity so he can list it on his college applications. Playing time is a totally different matter. Best players, play. Everyone gets that.

Agree. Its terrible for the kids who put in all the work for the past 2 years and now likely wont have a Varsity letter for college apps.

Do kids going to a WCAC school really need that varsity letter on the college app?

No...the reality is that if you aren't a recruited athlete, then just playing a sport is a line item on the app, but nobody cares much (and if not recruited, they don't care if you played Varsity of JV or a Club sport...it's an activity).

This is just blatantly incorrect. Colleges 100% know what it takes to be part of a varsity sport versus attending the inner peace club activity.

It's not blatantly incorrect...colleges really don't care that much about a sporting activity unless you are a recruited athlete...this isn't the 80s/90s. Colleges care you do something vs. nothing, but they don't really give a shit if you play on the Varsity baseball team...and in fact probably think it's a little better that you are captain of the Club Rugby team.

They would certainly prefer you take leadership roles in debate or robotics or something else vs. being an anonymous COG on some varsity athletic team.

I'm sure you want to believe that, but in personally working with college counselors I know that your belief is incorrect. Colleges are looking for well-rounded students including those with high-commitment extracurricular activities. Varsity sports (for non-recruited athletes) demonstrate that via dedication, leadership and the ability to balance time-consuming schedules with academics. A student who has 2 years of a sport, then a drop off with no other high-commitment extracurricular activity is at a disadvantage. It is unlikely that one of these students who was just dropped is all of a sudden going to pick up robotics or become debate team captain if that was not already something they were involved in.

Hard to feel sorry for kids not making the team when they’re only interested because they want to list their participation on their resume.

I feel very sorry for the kids who actually want to play and get cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So juniors cut have no option for high school baseball not even back down to JV because of the local transfers? Meanwhile, freshman primetime kids from an average team make JV?

+1. At least give the kid a jersey and let him be on varsity so he can list it on his college applications. Playing time is a totally different matter. Best players, play. Everyone gets that.

Agree. Its terrible for the kids who put in all the work for the past 2 years and now likely wont have a Varsity letter for college apps.

Do kids going to a WCAC school really need that varsity letter on the college app?

No...the reality is that if you aren't a recruited athlete, then just playing a sport is a line item on the app, but nobody cares much (and if not recruited, they don't care if you played Varsity of JV or a Club sport...it's an activity).

This is just blatantly incorrect. Colleges 100% know what it takes to be part of a varsity sport versus attending the inner peace club activity.

No. The previous PP is correct. If a student is not a recruited athlete then playing a high school sport (varsity or jv or club, etc.) is simply just another EC to college admissions folks. Unless you are being recruited for your sport, it does not move the needle any more or any less than any other EC. I used to read college applications as recently as 2 years ago and am still a member of a private college app reader board. We discuss this fairly often.

Then you did your school a disservice. If you were not sophisticated enough to understand that playing varsity at a WCAC school is a much different time commitment than many other schools you should not have been reviewing apps and you probably whiffed on some great applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So juniors cut have no option for high school baseball not even back down to JV because of the local transfers? Meanwhile, freshman primetime kids from an average team make JV?

+1. At least give the kid a jersey and let him be on varsity so he can list it on his college applications. Playing time is a totally different matter. Best players, play. Everyone gets that.

Agree. Its terrible for the kids who put in all the work for the past 2 years and now likely wont have a Varsity letter for college apps.

Do kids going to a WCAC school really need that varsity letter on the college app?

No...the reality is that if you aren't a recruited athlete, then just playing a sport is a line item on the app, but nobody cares much (and if not recruited, they don't care if you played Varsity of JV or a Club sport...it's an activity).

This is just blatantly incorrect. Colleges 100% know what it takes to be part of a varsity sport versus attending the inner peace club activity.

No. The previous PP is correct. If a student is not a recruited athlete then playing a high school sport (varsity or jv or club, etc.) is simply just another EC to college admissions folks. Unless you are being recruited for your sport, it does not move the needle any more or any less than any other EC. I used to read college applications as recently as 2 years ago and am still a member of a private college app reader board. We discuss this fairly often.

Then you did your school a disservice. If you were not sophisticated enough to understand that playing varsity at a WCAC school is a much different time commitment than many other schools you should not have been reviewing apps and you probably whiffed on some great applicants.

I guess it depends on the sport, but for baseball you will see probably 10 players on a WCAC varsity roster that won’t see much of any playing time. They are kept on the team just because they show up at practice, but honestly the coach would rather they just quit.

I don’t see why any college would or should reward that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So juniors cut have no option for high school baseball not even back down to JV because of the local transfers? Meanwhile, freshman primetime kids from an average team make JV?

+1. At least give the kid a jersey and let him be on varsity so he can list it on his college applications. Playing time is a totally different matter. Best players, play. Everyone gets that.

Agree. Its terrible for the kids who put in all the work for the past 2 years and now likely wont have a Varsity letter for college apps.

Do kids going to a WCAC school really need that varsity letter on the college app?

No...the reality is that if you aren't a recruited athlete, then just playing a sport is a line item on the app, but nobody cares much (and if not recruited, they don't care if you played Varsity of JV or a Club sport...it's an activity).

This is just blatantly incorrect. Colleges 100% know what it takes to be part of a varsity sport versus attending the inner peace club activity.

No. The previous PP is correct. If a student is not a recruited athlete then playing a high school sport (varsity or jv or club, etc.) is simply just another EC to college admissions folks. Unless you are being recruited for your sport, it does not move the needle any more or any less than any other EC. I used to read college applications as recently as 2 years ago and am still a member of a private college app reader board. We discuss this fairly often.

Then you did your school a disservice. If you were not sophisticated enough to understand that playing varsity at a WCAC school is a much different time commitment than many other schools you should not have been reviewing apps and you probably whiffed on some great applicants.

It seems that I have struck a nerve PP. Think what you like but I stand by my comment as that is the truth I experienced reading college applications myself and in hundreds of conversations with my peers.

[Anonymous]

This thread demonstrates how adults have sucked the joy out of youth sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So juniors cut have no option for high school baseball not even back down to JV because of the local transfers? Meanwhile, freshman primetime kids from an average team make JV?

+1. At least give the kid a jersey and let him be on varsity so he can list it on his college applications. Playing time is a totally different matter. Best players, play. Everyone gets that.

Agree. Its terrible for the kids who put in all the work for the past 2 years and now likely wont have a Varsity letter for college apps.

Do kids going to a WCAC school really need that varsity letter on the college app?

No...the reality is that if you aren't a recruited athlete, then just playing a sport is a line item on the app, but nobody cares much (and if not recruited, they don't care if you played Varsity of JV or a Club sport...it's an activity).

This is just blatantly incorrect. Colleges 100% know what it takes to be part of a varsity sport versus attending the inner peace club activity.

No. The previous PP is correct. If a student is not a recruited athlete then playing a high school sport (varsity or jv or club, etc.) is simply just another EC to college admissions folks. Unless you are being recruited for your sport, it does not move the needle any more or any less than any other EC. I used to read college applications as recently as 2 years ago and am still a member of a private college app reader board. We discuss this fairly often.

Then you did your school a disservice. If you were not sophisticated enough to understand that playing varsity at a WCAC school is a much different time commitment than many other schools you should not have been reviewing apps and you probably whiffed on some great applicants.

First, get over yourself. Do you not think that there isn't intense baseball culture in any other part of the country???? The WCAC is not all that unique on a national level.
Second, the bottom line is that unless your child is going to be a recruited college athlete their involvement in high school sports at any level is the same as most other activities on college applications.