Nearly 40% of Stanford's undergraduates are disabled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Accommodations are not supposed to be an advantage, they are supposed to remove a barrier that allows the disabled person to perform. Of course with a timed exam, extra time seems like an absolute advantage more than it does a wheelchair ramp.

Extra time only seems like an advantage to you because you don’t have a barrier that needs to be removed.

I suspect most don't have issues with accommodations when genuinely needed. It's the abuse of the accommodations by those who don't need them in order to get a competitive advantage that is the problem. Don't be naive, these diagnoses can be bought.

This is the issue. If you live in an affluent suburb or send your child to private school, you will see that kids who did perfectly great without accommodations decided around 9th or 10th grade to get an MD to diagnose them for anxiety or ADHD in order to get more time on standardized tests. There is rampant abuse of the system - the 40% probably reflects about 40% of the kids at many private schools (or wealthy public schools).

My kid is in 9th and I’m currently looking to get an ADHD diagnosis now that I’ve read the article.

Add "slow processing speed" to the menu and your kid will get more time on every test. My kid would have gotten perfect or near perfect on the SAT if he had just 10 more minutes to get through the last few questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Should only people in wheelchairs get to use ramps/curb cut outs, or is it okay with you that it also benefits a parent pushing a stroller, delivery person using a dolly, student rolling luggage, etc?

If everyone uses the handicapped table or bathroom stall because they feel equally entitled to use it as the person in the wheelchair, this is not okay. If a parent parks in a handicapped space just because they have lot of kids and a stroller to load and offload, this is not okay. If pre-boarding flights becomes non-existent thing because the majority of people get permission to pre-board a flight, who do you think this hurts the most?

A bunch of kids taking up single dorms just because they figured out a way to exaggerate a sob story actively hurts the person who actually needs a single dorm for a disability. If the school creates more singles to suit everyone who wants one, this cuts in half the number of students they can accommodate on campus. The fraudulent use of disability services also costs the school money and drives up tuition costs for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Accommodations are not supposed to be an advantage, they are supposed to remove a barrier that allows the disabled person to perform. Of course with a timed exam, extra time seems like an absolute advantage more than it does a wheelchair ramp.

Extra time only seems like an advantage to you because you don’t have a barrier that needs to be removed.

I suspect most don't have issues with accommodations when genuinely needed. It's the abuse of the accommodations by those who don't need them in order to get a competitive advantage that is the problem. Don't be naive, these diagnoses can be bought.

This is the issue. If you live in an affluent suburb or send your child to private school, you will see that kids who did perfectly great without accommodations decided around 9th or 10th grade to get an MD to diagnose them for anxiety or ADHD in order to get more time on standardized tests. There is rampant abuse of the system - the 40% probably reflects about 40% of the kids at many private schools (or wealthy public schools).

My kid is in 9th and I’m currently looking to get an ADHD diagnosis now that I’ve read the article.

You should ask them to add autism because you can get all kinds of crazy accommodations with it.

My kid has autism and doesn’t get much beyond small group testing and extra time. I don’t like the extra time and tried to get rid of it but eventually realized I need to keep it if all the NT kids are getting it. I think the main thing he would need in a standardized testing scenario like SAT is tolerance for fidgeting and other stims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Accommodations are not supposed to be an advantage, they are supposed to remove a barrier that allows the disabled person to perform. Of course with a timed exam, extra time seems like an absolute advantage more than it does a wheelchair ramp.

Extra time only seems like an advantage to you because you don’t have a barrier that needs to be removed.

The only barrier being removed is your low tests scores.

Extra time in a timed exam is an advantage because results improve for everyone with extra time.

If you are not getting an advantage then we should increase the difficulty level of the exam and give EVERYONE more time. But then you would want more time to deal with the higher difficulty level. What you are saying is that you identify as smarter than you actually are and you want extra time so that your test scores can match your identity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Should only people in wheelchairs get to use ramps/curb cut outs, or is it okay with you that it also benefits a parent pushing a stroller, delivery person using a dolly, student rolling luggage, etc?

That's not how testing accomodations work. If everyone gets 2 hours to do a one hour test, those with accomodations must be given even more than 2 hours.

No, that's how "unfair advantage" works. If you have slow processing speed and need more time, an accommodation gives you more time than a typical person would take to finish the test. It shouldn't matter how much time everyone else gets.

… and thereby fails to test the very thing the test was testing for (processing speed). Endless extended time means never considering processing speed, which is absurd. I could even argue that it is discriminatory to my ASD kid who has high processing speed.

Well that raises the question... are academic tests supposed to measure processing speed, or knowledge?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Accommodations are not supposed to be an advantage, they are supposed to remove a barrier that allows the disabled person to perform. Of course with a timed exam, extra time seems like an absolute advantage more than it does a wheelchair ramp.

Extra time only seems like an advantage to you because you don’t have a barrier that needs to be removed.

I suspect most don't have issues with accommodations when genuinely needed. It's the abuse of the accommodations by those who don't need them in order to get a competitive advantage that is the problem. Don't be naive, these diagnoses can be bought.

This is the issue. If you live in an affluent suburb or send your child to private school, you will see that kids who did perfectly great without accommodations decided around 9th or 10th grade to get an MD to diagnose them for anxiety or ADHD in order to get more time on standardized tests. There is rampant abuse of the system - the 40% probably reflects about 40% of the kids at many private schools (or wealthy public schools).

Something like 20% of the kids at GDS get testing accommodations. So less than Stanford

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Should only people in wheelchairs get to use ramps/curb cut outs, or is it okay with you that it also benefits a parent pushing a stroller, delivery person using a dolly, student rolling luggage, etc?

If everyone uses the handicapped table or bathroom stall because they feel equally entitled to use it as the person in the wheelchair, this is not okay. If a parent parks in a handicapped space just because they have lot of kids and a stroller to load and offload, this is not okay. If pre-boarding flights becomes non-existent thing because the majority of people get permission to pre-board a flight, who do you think this hurts the most?

A bunch of kids taking up single dorms just because they figured out a way to exaggerate a sob story actively hurts the person who actually needs a single dorm for a disability. If the school creates more singles to suit everyone who wants one, this cuts in half the number of students they can accommodate on campus. The fraudulent use of disability services also costs the school money and drives up tuition costs for everyone.

People abuse handicap parking...a lot. Those placards are basically for sale by doctors juts like the extra time on tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Should only people in wheelchairs get to use ramps/curb cut outs, or is it okay with you that it also benefits a parent pushing a stroller, delivery person using a dolly, student rolling luggage, etc?

That's not how testing accomodations work. If everyone gets 2 hours to do a one hour test, those with accomodations must be given even more than 2 hours.

No, that's how "unfair advantage" works. If you have slow processing speed and need more time, an accommodation gives you more time than a typical person would take to finish the test. It shouldn't matter how much time everyone else gets.

… and thereby fails to test the very thing the test was testing for (processing speed). Endless extended time means never considering processing speed, which is absurd. I could even argue that it is discriminatory to my ASD kid who has high processing speed.

Well that raises the question... are academic tests supposed to measure processing speed, or knowledge?

Standardized tests like the SAT? Processing speed.

AP exams measure knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No wonder my able bodied kid w/ 3.9/1600 sat couldn’t get in

Should have gone the disability route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Should only people in wheelchairs get to use ramps/curb cut outs, or is it okay with you that it also benefits a parent pushing a stroller, delivery person using a dolly, student rolling luggage, etc?

That's not how testing accomodations work. If everyone gets 2 hours to do a one hour test, those with accomodations must be given even more than 2 hours.

Just design a test for 3 hours and give everyone accommodation time.

Nope, you can't give everyone accomodation time. If the kids without accomodations get 3 hours, the kids with accomodations can successfully petition for more than 3 hours.

Do you see the problem here?

The problem is feeling the need to segregate and distinguish those who are accommodated and those who aren’t. Just treat everyone the same. In any given test, there’s x percent of people who need accommodations and y percent of that group who have no formal diagnosis. We would lose nothing by just treating accommodations as the standard and adjusting exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Should only people in wheelchairs get to use ramps/curb cut outs, or is it okay with you that it also benefits a parent pushing a stroller, delivery person using a dolly, student rolling luggage, etc?

That's not how testing accomodations work. If everyone gets 2 hours to do a one hour test, those with accomodations must be given even more than 2 hours.

Just design a test for 3 hours and give everyone accommodation time.

Nope, you can't give everyone accomodation time. If the kids without accomodations get 3 hours, the kids with accomodations can successfully petition for more than 3 hours.

Do you see the problem here?

The problem is feeling the need to segregate and distinguish those who are accommodated and those who aren’t. Just treat everyone the same. In any given test, there’s x percent of people who need accommodations and y percent of that group who have no formal diagnosis. We would lose nothing by just treating accommodations as the standard and adjusting exams.

Who gets to define what is the standard? Is that the point when everyone does well no matter what disadvantage they have? What if the test is too hard and requires 4 hours and someone can't focus for that long? We make it easier until everyone can ace it in 1 hour?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Should only people in wheelchairs get to use ramps/curb cut outs, or is it okay with you that it also benefits a parent pushing a stroller, delivery person using a dolly, student rolling luggage, etc?

That's not how testing accomodations work. If everyone gets 2 hours to do a one hour test, those with accomodations must be given even more than 2 hours.

No, that's how "unfair advantage" works. If you have slow processing speed and need more time, an accommodation gives you more time than a typical person would take to finish the test. It shouldn't matter how much time everyone else gets.

… and thereby fails to test the very thing the test was testing for (processing speed). Endless extended time means never considering processing speed, which is absurd. I could even argue that it is discriminatory to my ASD kid who has high processing speed.

Well that raises the question... are academic tests supposed to measure processing speed, or knowledge?

could be a critical thinking and applied test, where more time is an advantage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Should only people in wheelchairs get to use ramps/curb cut outs, or is it okay with you that it also benefits a parent pushing a stroller, delivery person using a dolly, student rolling luggage, etc?

That's not how testing accomodations work. If everyone gets 2 hours to do a one hour test, those with accomodations must be given even more than 2 hours.

Just design a test for 3 hours and give everyone accommodation time.

Nope, you can't give everyone accomodation time. If the kids without accomodations get 3 hours, the kids with accomodations can successfully petition for more than 3 hours.

Do you see the problem here?

The problem is feeling the need to segregate and distinguish those who are accommodated and those who aren’t. Just treat everyone the same. In any given test, there’s x percent of people who need accommodations and y percent of that group who have no formal diagnosis. We would lose nothing by just treating accommodations as the standard and adjusting exams.

Who gets to define what is the standard? Is that the point when everyone does well no matter what disadvantage they have? What if the test is too hard and requires 4 hours and someone can't focus for that long? We make it easier until everyone can ace it in 1 hour?

Yes, to the part in bold.

You described “equity.” This means, “equity of outcome.”

Everyone ends up at the same spot (or admission to the same university) no matter what disadvantage they may have.

This is the “E” in DEI, which we need to fight the MAGAs over, and restore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Should only people in wheelchairs get to use ramps/curb cut outs, or is it okay with you that it also benefits a parent pushing a stroller, delivery person using a dolly, student rolling luggage, etc?

That's not how testing accomodations work. If everyone gets 2 hours to do a one hour test, those with accomodations must be given even more than 2 hours.

Just design a test for 3 hours and give everyone accommodation time.

Nope, you can't give everyone accomodation time. If the kids without accomodations get 3 hours, the kids with accomodations can successfully petition for more than 3 hours.

Do you see the problem here?

The problem is feeling the need to segregate and distinguish those who are accommodated and those who aren’t. Just treat everyone the same. In any given test, there’s x percent of people who need accommodations and y percent of that group who have no formal diagnosis. We would lose nothing by just treating accommodations as the standard and adjusting exams.

Yeah, but who's going to proctor these four hour exams? And who's going to pay for all the buildings in which to hold them? Never mind the 'quiet, low-distraction space' prescribed for many kids with accommodations.

Meeting these accomodations is not cost free. That's the problem. Giving everyone a single room, or fresh fruit instead of institutional food, requires more resources. Students claiming accomodations without a genuine need for them are stealing these resources from their peers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. When everyone gets accommodations, no one gets accommodations.

Should only people in wheelchairs get to use ramps/curb cut outs, or is it okay with you that it also benefits a parent pushing a stroller, delivery person using a dolly, student rolling luggage, etc?

That's not how testing accomodations work. If everyone gets 2 hours to do a one hour test, those with accomodations must be given even more than 2 hours.

No, that's how "unfair advantage" works. If you have slow processing speed and need more time, an accommodation gives you more time than a typical person would take to finish the test. It shouldn't matter how much time everyone else gets.

… and thereby fails to test the very thing the test was testing for (processing speed). Endless extended time means never considering processing speed, which is absurd. I could even argue that it is discriminatory to my ASD kid who has high processing speed.

Well that raises the question... are academic tests supposed to measure processing speed, or knowledge?

Both. Both are vectors of intelligence and ability.