Flagship Avoidance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you convince DC that flagship state schools are not all that they seem? DC is at a small private and is obsessed with finding the “college experience” of football, social life, community etc but has always been in small classes, small social circles, easy access to resources etc.

This is a description of most public state flagship Honors Colleges.

I actually don't understand this point whatsoever. Honors Colleges only have small classes for the specific classes required by the Honors College...it's not like they offer their own sections for someone who wants to major in Engineering or Finance or the other very popular majors. Now, perhaps those upper level classes on their own are not huge.

I know just as many kids who dropped out of the Honor College because of the extra bullshit they had to do, as ones that remained in the Honors College.

Not at UMD. Small sections for Calc and above so they can move really quickly through the material. Probably true of sciences too.

Does anyone have a good resource for this? There are honors programs and honors colleges and it seems like the they really run the gamut, from "basically the same experience but with the option to take a few small seminar classes" to full "school within a school" experiences. Some involve separate living quarters (optional? mandatory?) and some are basically a status upgrade that allows priority course registratrion (value for those with "impacted majors!")

If anyone has a favorite resource for this, please share, thanks!

I don’t have a resource for this. But you have landed on an important point that is too often lost here, which is that you should research things in depth at each school rather than just going off of generalizations. Too much on this site is, “if you go to school type X then it will be like Y.” But there is a huge range of actual experiences.

[Anonymous]

Maybe suggest Pitt? Kind of between a flagship and a midsize private.

My kid goes there and it definitely isn't a SLAC but it does have the academic vibe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't but I can share that my private school kid has really struggled with the transition to the flagship public. They thought they wanted the whole rah-rah scene (couldn't wait to get out of the small private!) but they deeply miss the small classes, relationships with teachers, small social circles. They feel lost in the crowd (despite having friends, going to office hours, all the things..)

I guess this is the benefit of going to a large public school. LOL My kid can handle the large class sizes at the large state flagship. They've learned to hustle and has gotten great internships on their own.

Which of your kid's high school classes were taught in 300-student lessons?

DP - But my kid went to a larger HS and didn't want a college smaller than what they had already experienced. They really wanted a large school and it's been great. The large lectures are for intro classes, like Bio and there is a small discussion that's no larger than a regular HS class. DC made friends in all classes and isn't overwhelmed. It really wasn't necessary to have a small class for lecture. I went to a tiny LAC and remember my philosophy class was in a lecture hall. We didn't have discussion and I stayed disconnected. I would have done better at a school like the one my DC chose, but I was intimidated by large schools. The opportunities are endless compared to my LAC. Don't discount a school b/c it's a flagship and you think it isn't worthy. Listen to your kid and try to understand their perspective. Visit both environments and see how everyone feels.

[Anonymous]

Pitt, UVM, College of Charleston (not exactly a flagship but public and smaller than large flagships)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP my DC was similar, went to a small school and really thought he wanted the opposite for college early in the discussions (spring of sophomore year). However, as he developed more academic interests, started thinking about majors etc that started to change. It became even more clear with college tours, he didn't think the large lecture hall style classes were ideal for him, also worried about ability to get classes he wanted/needed which is harder at large publics.
My advice is don't worry, just help your DC get exposure to a variety of college types; start exploring the academic side so that they can make balanced choices and support their ultimate decision.

Similarly, at the start of the admission process (say, late sophomore year/early junior year) my DC at a small private school was convinced they wanted a large school and the opportunities and anonymity it offers. But by the time they were weighing admissions offers, they had concluded that some of the large schools they were originally in love with were actually too big and not really a fit. The final four schools on the table included a SLAC and three mid-sized universities (one private and two public). They are now at a school with about 11,000 undergrads, in a small major, and are happy with this choice.

My advice is don't freak out or push too hard. Ideally, you can get a sense of what elements of a flagship are attractive to them, determine whether other types of schools also offer that experience, and make sure they explore those avenues too.

[Anonymous]

After being in small private schools for K-12, my son was adamant about attending a large state university. He wanted something different. It has been fine, and I know he does not regret his decision at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you convince DC that flagship state schools are not all that they seem? DC is at a small private and is obsessed with finding the “college experience” of football, social life, community etc but has always been in small classes, small social circles, easy access to resources etc.

This is a description of most public state flagship Honors Colleges.

I actually don't understand this point whatsoever. Honors Colleges only have small classes for the specific classes required by the Honors College...it's not like they offer their own sections for someone who wants to major in Engineering or Finance or the other very popular majors. Now, perhaps those upper level classes on their own are not huge.

I know just as many kids who dropped out of the Honor College because of the extra bullshit they had to do, as ones that remained in the Honors College.

Not at UMD. Small sections for Calc and above so they can move really quickly through the material. Probably true of sciences too.

OK...Calc is an intro type course that many people have to take vs. someone majoring in EE or CS or Chemistry or Finance or English or whatever and expecting separate sections for Honors Colleges.

Ironically, because this is the DMV, UMD is the most prevalent school of kids who dropped out of the Honors College because the benefits didn't outweigh what they considered the drawbacks. It was good to great for Freshman year, and then lost its allure quickly.

[Anonymous]

Let them do what makes sense to them. One of my kids wanted the huge rah-rah football school and the other wanted a tiny, quiet LAC. Both are happy with their choices.

We exposed both to a variety of types of schools and trusted them to know themselves.

FWIW, tiny LAC has had more issues with class selection than big school. She can always make it work but has to schedule around certain classes only being offered in Spring or only every other Fall or there's only one section and it conflicts with something else she wants at the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't but I can share that my private school kid has really struggled with the transition to the flagship public. They thought they wanted the whole rah-rah scene (couldn't wait to get out of the small private!) but they deeply miss the small classes, relationships with teachers, small social circles. They feel lost in the crowd (despite having friends, going to office hours, all the things..)

I guess this is the benefit of going to a large public school. LOL My kid can handle the large class sizes at the large state flagship. They've learned to hustle and has gotten great internships on their own.

Which of your kid's high school classes were taught in 300-student lessons?

DP. None of my kid's classes at a large state school have anywhere close to 300 people in them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, by all means try to convince her that the colleges that have everything actually have nothing.

+100
Seriously!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you convince DC that flagship state schools are not all that they seem? DC is at a small private and is obsessed with finding the “college experience” of football, social life, community etc but has always been in small classes, small social circles, easy access to resources etc.

This is a description of most public state flagship Honors Colleges.

I actually don't understand this point whatsoever. Honors Colleges only have small classes for the specific classes required by the Honors College...it's not like they offer their own sections for someone who wants to major in Engineering or Finance or the other very popular majors. Now, perhaps those upper level classes on their own are not huge.

I know just as many kids who dropped out of the Honor College because of the extra bullshit they had to do, as ones that remained in the Honors College.

I agree with this. Our kids attend large state publics and both left the Honors Colleges because of all the extra busy work. They love their big schools and all the opportunities that come with them - Honors College is definitely not necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't but I can share that my private school kid has really struggled with the transition to the flagship public. They thought they wanted the whole rah-rah scene (couldn't wait to get out of the small private!) but they deeply miss the small classes, relationships with teachers, small social circles. They feel lost in the crowd (despite having friends, going to office hours, all the things..)

I guess this is the benefit of going to a large public school. LOL My kid can handle the large class sizes at the large state flagship. They've learned to hustle and has gotten great internships on their own.

Which of your kid's high school classes were taught in 300-student lessons?

DP - But my kid went to a larger HS and didn't want a college smaller than what they had already experienced. They really wanted a large school and it's been great. The large lectures are for intro classes, like Bio and there is a small discussion that's no larger than a regular HS class. DC made friends in all classes and isn't overwhelmed. It really wasn't necessary to have a small class for lecture. I went to a tiny LAC and remember my philosophy class was in a lecture hall. We didn't have discussion and I stayed disconnected. I would have done better at a school like the one my DC chose, but I was intimidated by large schools. The opportunities are endless compared to my LAC. Don't discount a school b/c it's a flagship and you think it isn't worthy. Listen to your kid and try to understand their perspective. Visit both environments and see how everyone feels.

+1
I also attended a tiny LAC and in retrospect, so wish I had chosen our large state university! Especially now when I see my own kids having these fantastic experiences and opportunities at their large schools. Makes my own college seem so insular and dull.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am a college professor and my two oldest have chosen state flagships. Ultimately I was fine: they both selected in large part for the specific academic programs as well as for the money - and they certainly saved us a lot of money.

But I definitely made sure that they understood the pros and cons. These can be quantifiable (class sizes, available internships, research opportunities) and harder to quantify but very real (is a program "weed out" or supportive?) We also talked a lot about how they learned best so that they could make the most informed choices. My third kid is interested in medical school and we are looking at acceptance rates from different colleges into med school. These numbers/data are helping him decide.

You can't discredit the large alumni networks for job prospects. Both my kids went to state flagships, and my oldest (class of 2025) has a great job and is already reaching out to his beloved school to recruit and network.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't but I can share that my private school kid has really struggled with the transition to the flagship public. They thought they wanted the whole rah-rah scene (couldn't wait to get out of the small private!) but they deeply miss the small classes, relationships with teachers, small social circles. They feel lost in the crowd (despite having friends, going to office hours, all the things..)

I guess this is the benefit of going to a large public school. LOL My kid can handle the large class sizes at the large state flagship. They've learned to hustle and has gotten great internships on their own.

Which of your kid's high school classes were taught in 300-student lessons?

DP. None of my kid's classes at a large state school have anywhere close to 300 people in them.

Seriously.

[Anonymous]

You can always make a big school feel smaller, but can’t make a small school feel bigger. Schools with honors colleges are the best of both worlds!! Housing, smaller class sizes, but still access to the sports and other things. UofSC has been great.