Breaking up with my toxic mom group (Ashley Tisdale essay)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

What was the deal with the mom who sent flowers after her message to the group but the would never respond to her after? It sounds like trying to navigate a mine field.

My guess is that it's either

(1) She's super flaky and did not intentionally ghost but literally just forgot to respond. It's at least possible that a lot of these women are flaky and that is what was happening with the forgotten invites to things -- people literally forgot

(2) The group is SUPER toxic and this particular friend initially aligned with Ashley because she felt bad, but then got marching orders from one or more queen bs that olive branches were to be retracted

It's really hard to say if you don't actually know these women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

What was the deal with the mom who sent flowers after her message to the group but the would never respond to her after? It sounds like trying to navigate a mine field.

I would do this. I would send flowers to someone in my friend group who is obviously struggling. I would say you're welcome, hugs whatever but sending flowers doesn't obligate me to work with her on her issues. But I also need to protect my peace and have boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It just seems exhausting that middle age women still have cliques.

What is weird to me is that cliques actually seem more prevalent in my 40s than they did when I was in high school. There was friend drama in HS but it wasn't this passive aggressive exclusion or these weird hierarchies. It would more run of the mill, like (making this up) Katie and Jessie were best friends and then Jessie decided to do the school play instead of marching band and Katie felt hurt. But even in a situation like that, most of the time people would just talk it out and make up and it would be fine. It was just kids figuring their lives out and having some growing pains, but it usually wasn't malicious.

There are more mean 40 year old women than mean 17 year old girls, at least in my experience. It's really sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

What was the deal with the mom who sent flowers after her message to the group but the would never respond to her after? It sounds like trying to navigate a mine field.

I would do this. I would send flowers to someone in my friend group who is obviously struggling. I would say you're welcome, hugs whatever but sending flowers doesn't obligate me to work with her on her issues. But I also need to protect my peace and have boundaries.

This sounds really confusing though. Sending flowers is a kind gesture that is completely undone by ghosting her after.

I think it's good to have boundaries and certainly in this situation I would want to stay out of whatever drama was going on. However, people need to have communication skills. I would say to my friend "hey, I love you and I'm sad you're hurting, but I also don't want to get in the middle of this because I'm friends with these other women too." I wouldn't send flowers and then disappear because those are some very mixed messages and what is someone supposed to do with that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

What was the deal with the mom who sent flowers after her message to the group but the would never respond to her after? It sounds like trying to navigate a mine field.

I would do this. I would send flowers to someone in my friend group who is obviously struggling. I would say you're welcome, hugs whatever but sending flowers doesn't obligate me to work with her on her issues. But I also need to protect my peace and have boundaries.

This sounds really confusing though. Sending flowers is a kind gesture that is completely undone by ghosting her after.

I think it's good to have boundaries and certainly in this situation I would want to stay out of whatever drama was going on. However, people need to have communication skills. I would say to my friend "hey, I love you and I'm sad you're hurting, but I also don't want to get in the middle of this because I'm friends with these other women too." I wouldn't send flowers and then disappear because those are some very mixed messages and what is someone supposed to do with that?

IDK. Let's say I sent you flowers, you said thank you, I said my pleasure. Don't we just...carry on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In 10 years, she'll be writing about how her husband's middle-aged transformation into a raging, alcoholic piece of shit left her realizing she should have nurtured her village. There's nothing special about a stuck-up new mom who takes aim at fellow moms to feel better than them only to regret it as her marriage degrades over time and her children get older and much more complex.

Did you read it? They pushed her out. She'll find another village when her DCs are school-aged.

Some of it seemed like just a natural fade out but the detail that made me feel bad for her was when she invited them to her daughter's birthday party and they made plans to hang out with each other (without her) at the party she hosted. That does seem cold and also would have hurt my feelings.

That was such a nasty b move. They wanted her to know they were leaving her out. How absolutely low to do that at her kid's bday party. That says all I need to know about this group.

Yes. A major pet peeve of mine is grown adults who act like middle schoolers when they are guests in someone else's home (or at an event hosted by someone else). It incredibly childish. If you don't like the host, don't come to her party. This is very easy. Coming and then closing ranks into your clubby little group is just awful manners.

Agreed. I think all of them ( including Ashley herself,) are toxic but they needed to open their damn mouth and tell her the close friendships isn't working out. It's okay to only be cordial with other parents and keep it at that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

What was the deal with the mom who sent flowers after her message to the group but the would never respond to her after? It sounds like trying to navigate a mine field.

I would do this. I would send flowers to someone in my friend group who is obviously struggling. I would say you're welcome, hugs whatever but sending flowers doesn't obligate me to work with her on her issues. But I also need to protect my peace and have boundaries.

This sounds really confusing though. Sending flowers is a kind gesture that is completely undone by ghosting her after.

I think it's good to have boundaries and certainly in this situation I would want to stay out of whatever drama was going on. However, people need to have communication skills. I would say to my friend "hey, I love you and I'm sad you're hurting, but I also don't want to get in the middle of this because I'm friends with these other women too." I wouldn't send flowers and then disappear because those are some very mixed messages and what is someone supposed to do with that?

IDK. Let's say I sent you flowers, you said thank you, I said my pleasure. Don't we just...carry on?

I think the implication here is that the friend sent Ashley flowers, she said thank you, and the friend never responded at all and never contacted her again. That's not "carrying on" -- it's offering a show of support and then ghosting. Definitely mixed message.

And in your case, you said you'd send flowers and then "protect your peace." I don't know what that means exactly but if it means you won't make any effort in the future to hang out with her, then why bother to send the flowers at all? Like what is the point of the flowers if you aren't going to actually reach out work on the friendship?

[Anonymous]

She initially desperately needed other woman to tell her what kind of diaper bag to buy?

Right there is foreshadowing for what comes next. She actually desperately needed other women to let her know what to think of herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I got from that is that social media caused all the toxicity. Without Instagram she would have no idea who was hanging with who and that she wasn't invited. And basically all the anxiety I have with other women also stems from some variation of this: "there they are, all hanging out and didn't invite me. What did I do wrong?"
I hate it so much. Currently dreading logging onto Facebook to post family pictures my mother keep hounding me about because I know I'll see something like this.

Just text the photos to your mom.
So much better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

It’s weird to be half in and half out with a group. Better to have a clean break.

That sounds cultish.

What? If you're friends with a few people and they are friends with a wider group that you don't really mesh with you still have to see them. Especially when kids are involved because there are birthday parties. It ruins the vibe when you're around people who clearly don't like you. They will get up and walk away rather than be left with you at a table. They turn their back to you. Make plans in front of you. What normal person wants to deal with that? I would back out of that friend group entirely than deal with that BS at a social outing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know one womens group that doesn’t eventually break up or splinter, for various reasons.

Even if they get together on occasion they are one big happy organism feeding positively off each other. They are many groups of 2 or 3 loosely connected to others.

Also friendship wax and wane that is life.

How do you get past 25 years old and not understand this.

Yeah. I kind of thought she really shot herself in the foot here by breaking off with every member of the group. She should have just spent more time with the people she got along with and less time with the larger group.

It’s weird to be half in and half out with a group. Better to have a clean break.

I’m going to say that you know more about this toxic mom-group stuff than I do.

Or maybe you do because why should she spend time with a larger group who generally excludes her and doesn’t invite her? That doesn’t sound like much fun.

No. It doesn’t. But someone sent her flowers and wants to be her friend. It’s better to have one friend than no friends.

No. You save the energy for better people. A friend who hangs out with people known to have snubbed you is no real friend.

I wouldn’t expect someone to stop hanging out with someone who didn’t invite me to a larger gathering. That sounds like 6th grade. I wouldn’t expect someone expect so-called friend to hang out with my separately and to stay silent on silly stuff that might still
Hurt my feelings.

Cool, that's you. But you still see these other people and no doubt they are making her feel unwelcome and an outsider. Life's too short to deal with unpleasant unfriendly people. If you want to keep signing up for that, that's on your. Other people just establish their own boundaries about what works and what doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It just seems exhausting that middle age women still have cliques.

What is weird to me is that cliques actually seem more prevalent in my 40s than they did when I was in high school. There was friend drama in HS but it wasn't this passive aggressive exclusion or these weird hierarchies. It would more run of the mill, like (making this up) Katie and Jessie were best friends and then Jessie decided to do the school play instead of marching band and Katie felt hurt. But even in a situation like that, most of the time people would just talk it out and make up and it would be fine. It was just kids figuring their lives out and having some growing pains, but it usually wasn't malicious.

There are more mean 40 year old women than mean 17 year old girls, at least in my experience. It's really sad.

This is sadly true and all of the excuses are just that. Women who act like this know very well what they’re doing. They’re not flaky but they’ve mastered the art of acting innocent and “so busy” they forgot.

Thankfully most women don’t seem to be like this but there are absolutely groups like this, especially in places like Hollywood where they feel the perceived pecking order controls who they hang out with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She initially desperately needed other woman to tell her what kind of diaper bag to buy?

Right there is foreshadowing for what comes next. She actually desperately needed other women to let her know what to think of herself.

Oh stop. It's normal to want to experience major life events together. Don't lie to us and tell us you didn't talk to anyone else pregnant or recently had a baby about the experience or what was to come. If you didn't then your social skills are clearly lacking. The rest of us exist in communities.

[Anonymous]

I was once part of one of those iVillage mom groups -- Moms Due in 2009, something like that.

It was fine for a few years, although certain members would get "kicked out" from time to time. Mostly for disagreeing with the moderator or starting drama.

After a while, it dawned on me that a small group seemed to have gotten a lot closer than the big group ...

Then I noticed that they weren't posting as much.

Finally, it became clear that a couple of the members had become besties to the extent that they were moving to the same town! And, the whole small group knew. Finally, I realized that they had started their own private chat, and I wasn't a part of it. I never called anyone out, and I left the big group. Not worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I got from that is that social media caused all the toxicity. Without Instagram she would have no idea who was hanging with who and that she wasn't invited. And basically all the anxiety I have with other women also stems from some variation of this: "there they are, all hanging out and didn't invite me. What did I do wrong?"
I hate it so much. Currently dreading logging onto Facebook to post family pictures my mother keep hounding me about because I know I'll see something like this.

Are you kidding me? You can't text or email the pictures to your mom? Create a shared album and post them there? Print them out and give them to her? You are literally your own worst enemy. Pretty pathetic.