Without affirmative action, elite colleges are prioritizing economic diversity in admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is now a freshman at an Ivy and attended a private feeder and is ending the semester with 99-100% across the board in all classes, frankly without studying. There are kids who routinely get 15-20% on the exams and they aren't the athletes who they say are primarily the private school kids and/or kids from areas like the DMV.

I get that colleges want to extend opportunities to kids who otherwise would never get a leap up in life and I think this is probably a very good institutional priority. But a result you have many, many kids who are very average at these schools (and again, they've generally not the athletes). My kid says the kids in their private school classes were far more impressive than the kids in their Ivy classes. This is NOT a private/public school debate as I'm sure it would be the same if he/she went to a magnet or high performing public.

I believe it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they prioritize economic diversity over race black / Hispanic numbers return to pre affirmative action while increasing the Asian numbers to 50%, but the white numbers take a 12% hit, it this happens Blum will say universities are using economics as a proxy for race to discriminate against whites

Asian numbers aren’t rising to 50%. Too much backlash and not in line with institutional priorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they prioritize economic diversity over race black / Hispanic numbers return to pre affirmative action while increasing the Asian numbers to 50%, but the white numbers take a 12% hit, it this happens Blum will say universities are using economics as a proxy for race to discriminate against whites

The reason they never wanted to do income based affirmative action is because the majority of smart poor kids are rural whites. Those are the absolute last group of people that college administrators want to help.

It gave us JD Vance.

He went to Ohio State on the GI Bill, did really well there, & got in Yale Law based on grades & LSAT. Where was the Affirmative Action?

I say this as a military spouse (and both of us are lawyers), there’s absolutely AA in law school for veterans.

I don’t consider it affirmative action. Veterans absolutely have a special set of skills and work ethic earned and learned from their time in the service and that is taken into consideration for acceptance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes it feels like these elite institutions could simply reserve 25% of their spots for low-SES students and leave the remaining 75% for everyone else—without all the extra theatrics—focusing on academics for the sake of academics, rather than acting like exclusive social hubs for the wealthy. Instead, what’s happening now sends a discouraging message: you can work incredibly hard, but if your family is neither poor enough nor rich enough—the situation most students fall into—there’s no place for you. Not poor enough to inspire institutional sympathy, not wealthy enough to offer “network value.” It makes you wonder what the purpose of an elite college even is anymore.

And again, how much do these elitists want to drain the average people's time, money and energy...They work so hard to be exclusive so they can keep the wealthy 1% to themselves, and make sure the rest are poor FOEVER

You sound like you feel that people have a right to seats, but you don’t. Top schools have never been about peak academics and they have every right to admit according to their priorities, not yours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they prioritize economic diversity over race black / Hispanic numbers return to pre affirmative action while increasing the Asian numbers to 50%, but the white numbers take a 12% hit, it this happens Blum will say universities are using economics as a proxy for race to discriminate against whites

The reason they never wanted to do income based affirmative action is because the majority of smart poor kids are rural whites. Those are the absolute last group of people that college administrators want to help.

It gave us JD Vance.

He went to Ohio State on the GI Bill, did really well there, & got in Yale Law based on grades & LSAT. Where was the Affirmative Action?

I say this as a military spouse (and both of us are lawyers), there’s absolutely AA in law school for veterans.

I don’t consider it affirmative action. Veterans absolutely have a special set of skills and work ethic earned and learned from their time in the service and that is taken into consideration for acceptance.

LOL there’s a lot variability. Trust me.

To be clear, I have no objection to veteran AA. But I also don’t object to it on the grounds of race and SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This will work out fine because a lot of rich whites don't want to send their kids to these schools just to subsidize other poor kids. They will be at large southern universities.

Doubtful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is now a freshman at an Ivy and attended a private feeder and is ending the semester with 99-100% across the board in all classes, frankly without studying. There are kids who routinely get 15-20% on the exams and they aren't the athletes who they say are primarily the private school kids and/or kids from areas like the DMV.

I get that colleges want to extend opportunities to kids who otherwise would never get a leap up in life and I think this is probably a very good institutional priority. But a result you have many, many kids who are very average at these schools (and again, they've generally not the athletes). My kid says the kids in their private school classes were far more impressive than the kids in their Ivy classes. This is NOT a private/public school debate as I'm sure it would be the same if he/she went to a magnet or high performing public.

I believe it

DP. I honestly think at this point there might be a higher-quality overall student body at a place like Carleton or Middlebury than at an Ivy. So many super-qualified upper-middle-class kids are just not getting a fair look at the Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:these schools prioritize athletes.

everything else is secondary.

As it should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With AI progressing so quickly, college prestige may matter less and less. People won’t need a degree to prove their abilities. Seeing so many Gen Z job struggles—unemployment, low wages, outsourcing, H-1B competition—makes it feel like our kids are just fighting to survive. It’s hard to know whether a college degree still makes a difference.

Social media and AI were the worst creations in history

Woke and humanities majors are worse.

Humanities majors create the art and literature and music that AI is stealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With AI progressing so quickly, college prestige may matter less and less. People won’t need a degree to prove their abilities. Seeing so many Gen Z job struggles—unemployment, low wages, outsourcing, H-1B competition—makes it feel like our kids are just fighting to survive. It’s hard to know whether a college degree still makes a difference.

This type of hypothetical boostering of AI replacing college education is just ditzy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With AI progressing so quickly, college prestige may matter less and less. People won’t need a degree to prove their abilities. Seeing so many Gen Z job struggles—unemployment, low wages, outsourcing, H-1B competition—makes it feel like our kids are just fighting to survive. It’s hard to know whether a college degree still makes a difference.

Social media and AI were the worst creations in history

Woke and humanities majors are worse.

Humanities majors create the art and literature and music that AI is stealing.

Yes. Cretins like PP would prefer we have no culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they prioritize economic diversity over race black / Hispanic numbers return to pre affirmative action while increasing the Asian numbers to 50%, but the white numbers take a 12% hit, it this happens Blum will say universities are using economics as a proxy for race to discriminate against whites

Asian numbers aren’t rising to 50%. Too much backlash and not in line with institutional priorities.

It's because these are not technical schools. They will never admit a cohort that is 90%+ STEM focused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they prioritize economic diversity over race black / Hispanic numbers return to pre affirmative action while increasing the Asian numbers to 50%, but the white numbers take a 12% hit, it this happens Blum will say universities are using economics as a proxy for race to discriminate against whites

Asian numbers aren’t rising to 50%. Too much backlash and not in line with institutional priorities.

It's because these are not technical schools. They will never admit a cohort that is 90%+ STEM focused.

Exactly. We don't need technical schools across the T25. A few are fine (MIT, Caltech). The rest - society is more interdisciplinary and values other things. This isn't India or China.

We want artists, writers, philosophers, linguists, historians, sociologists, anthropologists and more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is now a freshman at an Ivy and attended a private feeder and is ending the semester with 99-100% across the board in all classes, frankly without studying. There are kids who routinely get 15-20% on the exams and they aren't the athletes who they say are primarily the private school kids and/or kids from areas like the DMV.

I get that colleges want to extend opportunities to kids who otherwise would never get a leap up in life and I think this is probably a very good institutional priority. But a result you have many, many kids who are very average at these schools (and again, they've generally not the athletes). My kid says the kids in their private school classes were far more impressive than the kids in their Ivy classes. This is NOT a private/public school debate as I'm sure it would be the same if he/she went to a magnet or high performing public.

I believe it

DP. I honestly think at this point there might be a higher-quality overall student body at a place like Carleton or Middlebury than at an Ivy. So many super-qualified upper-middle-class kids are just not getting a fair look at the Ivies.

Disagree that UMC kids aren’t getting a “fair look” (and my kid is one).

UMC kids’ stats are not the result of superior capabilities or work ethic—they are the result of external resources and coaching.

Perfectly reasonable to take that into account (and partially discount those stats) when looking for intellectual talent, potential, and drive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If they prioritize economic diversity over race black / Hispanic numbers return to pre affirmative action while increasing the Asian numbers to 50%, but the white numbers take a 12% hit, it this happens Blum will say universities are using economics as a proxy for race to discriminate against whites

The reason they never wanted to do income based affirmative action is because the majority of smart poor kids are rural whites. Those are the absolute last group of people that college administrators want to help.

It gave us JD Vance.

He went to Ohio State on the GI Bill, did really well there, & got in Yale Law based on grades & LSAT. Where was the Affirmative Action?

His GI benefits paid for Yale Law, not OSU. He probably received geographic and gender affirmative action to attend Yale. I cannot imagine his entrance into Yale Law was any more impressive than students who were rejected. The students were probably equally qualified, but too many women or too many students from Maine to Florida coasts is not the class Yale, even law school, strives to graduate.