Middlebury Suffering with larger class sizes and enrollment

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

+1, I love midd. I donate to Midd as a proud parent, but the institution missed out on a decade and a half of financial glory that peer lacs have reached (Swat, Pomona, Williams, and Amherst all passing the three billion dollar endowment mark). It has also made poor enrollment decisions that have helped erode campus culture. I have a DS at Midd and a DD at Williams, and a nephew at Pomona-the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day. It’s a wonderful school but you have to face reality

You had me until this: "the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day."

What differences are night and day?

Sure, 1) conference and research funding is more abundant. Williams particularly has nearly non-exhaustive research funding and apparently Pomona's student government recently voted to potentially reduce the amount per student, because they've never run out of the fund. 2) Both schools deal less with faculty retention issues than Middlebury and they attract more faculty 3) less staff cuts/issues than Middlebury. 4) International experiences and connections with Oxbridge, which Middlebury lacks. You can check the Humanities program but

Middlebury-CMRS students are Associate Members of Keble College, but are not enrolled at the University of Oxford, and neither Keble College nor the University of Oxford have any responsibility for academic, pastoral, accommodation or disciplinary matters relating to M-CMRS. Students on the program are housed in St Michael’s Hall, in Oxford city center.

and the college doesn't have the fellowship funding for oxbridge study like Williams and Pomona 5) More campus events from more notable scholars including Bill Nye for Parents weekend, Oren Case, Ruha Benjamin, Carl Phillips, Kwame Appiah, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Lonnie G. Bunch III, Sal Khan, and other big speakers all have passed by, while Midd tends to have more academics. 6) Midd is currently having a class size issue, while Williams can maintain a massive tutorials program 7) Both Williams and Pomona have Nobel prize alum. Midd doesn't 8) these exceptional faculty resources lead to better outcomes for graduate school and professional school.

Both Williams and Middlebury have issues with faculty recruitment and retention, due primarily to their rural locations and lack of affordable housing and childcare services. Lack of spousal job opportunities also impacts both colleges. With its suburban location, Pomona deals less with these issues, although a high cost of living is in play.

Williams also isn't immune to budget cuts. Just two years ago, they asked all department heads to identify 15% budget cuts from their FY24 budgets due to a poor endowment performance the prior year.

Middlebury is unmatched in its global presence, with 75 programs in 40 countries. You mention Middlebury's affiliation with Keble College at Oxford, but didn't mention the Lincoln College Visiting Student Program. Students at the Williams-Exeter Program are similarly visiting, non-matriculated Oxford students, although they are fully integrated into Exeter's social and academic circles. And around 25 students participate per year. More than 50 Middlebury students study at Oxford every year. To my knowledge, Pomona doesn't have any affiliation with Oxford. They do have the Program at Jesus College, Cambridge, which students from any of the Claremont Colleges can join.

You mention more campus events from more notable scholars--this is entirely subjective. The names you mention are not necessarily well known outside academic circles. And if you want to consider Bill Nye the Science Guy as a real catch, good for you. Middlebury attracts plenty of accomplished guest speakers.

Williams maintains a massive tutorial program? As I understand it, the college offers 65ish tutorials per year, each with two students. So a total of ~130 students take a tutorial every year. The college says that just over half of Williams students take a tutorial during their time at the college. If "night and day" hinges on your opportunity to take one class while you're in college (and half don't even take advantage of it), so be it.

How does having a Nobel Prize-winning alum impact the current student experience? Bragging rights, okay. But what's the impact on everyday life?

Middlebury does just fine with grad school placement compared to peers.

Listen--Williams and Pomona are wealthier schools--no doubt about that. But saying this added wealth makes a "night and day" difference concerning the overall academic experience is ludicrous and shows bias on your part.

There's a poster on this site who scours news outlets, Middlebury's website, and the college paper for any negative stories and creates threads about them. I'm not certain what their motivation is, but I don't see them doing the same for other SLACs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:35 students in a class is still quite small, and if you come from a public high school, that’s close to normal, granted most probably came from private. These kids need to stop whining because there is little difference between 20 and 35 in a college class, even 9 and 20 or 35. If they can’t find a way to speak up or use AI to cheat on readings, that tells you more about student. Welcome to the real world.

Extensive research has shown that the ideal class size to facilitate learning, discussion, and engagement is 16 students. So yes, 20 is a lot better and just a few more than the ideal size, rather than 35 (which is double the ideal size).

Cite your source.

Educator here, it's not rocket science. https://ecommons.cornell.edu/items/fdf9ce53-d846-4b23-a551-78730bc4b0b9

The literature review starting on Page 5 suggests all kinds of mixed and confounding effects.

The data in the paper is based solely on SUNY Binghamton students from 1992-2004.

What if better students like smaller classes?

What if better students also do well in large lecture classes but the effect is drowned out by anonymity-seeking slackers?

This paper is a large data set contribution to a body of literature. It is not even LAC data. And I think Bing is more selective now than it was back then (although I don't think that matters much).

I would like better evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s my unpopular opinion: does it really matter than an Econ seminar course or topology class have 10 kids in it? If the college limits enrollment in these courses, the students will complain next that they can’t finish their majors or there’s limited course availability. Students deserve to take the courses they want to, and if that means a few students may have to move a few chairs from one to the other, that’s a much better alternative to shutting students off and keeping 8 students in the class because of some desire for intimacy about a subject as mundane as econometrics.

Agree with you.

Based on my high school and flagship experience a class size of 30-ish is acceptable with motivated, interested learners.

What I got out of this article, bottom line, is that Middlebury needs to invest in new stackable chairs.

When I got my first dorm at a flagship, I flipped my wooden chair over and it had a name plaque on it that proved the chair was at least 40, if not 60, years old. My first government office in the 90s had old blond wood furniture that a government colleague of mine amusingly referred to as the "LBJ Great Society furniture".

Midd needs chairs. Cheaper than remedying bad p.r.

you can't compare the value proposition of a large, public school with a small liberal arts college. people pay vastly different prices for public college versus small, private LAC. you are essentially paying in part for the guarantee of mostly small seminar-style classes at middlebury. just like you are paying for larger seats and more leg room in business class versus economy when you fly. public school has the expectation of economy seating. you get to the same destination as business class, but with economy class you pay less and it's slightly more uncomfortable journey. same with LAC versus big state school.

Please do not equate the privilege of being able to bow out of class discussion when you feel off or skip lecture without it being analyzed as "more uncomfortable" by LAC grads. I sat up front in plenty of big classes, said hi to the prof, read all the readings, raised my hand and asked questions when I felt like it. I've always preferred to hear more from the profs/experts vs. bloviating peers. In my pricy MBA classes the section sizes were about 70, and we did a fair bit of case method discussions. This is not an economy class marker. It's an instructional delivery difference.

Maybe the sad thing is, just like business class these days, LACs are lower quality than they used to be at higher real prices.

Still think they need chairs. Kids shouldn't have to move furniture for class to start.

We are talking about undergrads. Why are you bloviating about your pricey MBA grad school class experience when it's not relevant to this discussion about college/undergrad class experience?

Btw - it's pricey, not pricy.

Merriam-Webster accepts both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

+1, I love midd. I donate to Midd as a proud parent, but the institution missed out on a decade and a half of financial glory that peer lacs have reached (Swat, Pomona, Williams, and Amherst all passing the three billion dollar endowment mark). It has also made poor enrollment decisions that have helped erode campus culture. I have a DS at Midd and a DD at Williams, and a nephew at Pomona-the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day. It’s a wonderful school but you have to face reality

You had me until this: "the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day."

What differences are night and day?

Sure, 1) conference and research funding is more abundant. Williams particularly has nearly non-exhaustive research funding and apparently Pomona's student government recently voted to potentially reduce the amount per student, because they've never run out of the fund. 2) Both schools deal less with faculty retention issues than Middlebury and they attract more faculty 3) less staff cuts/issues than Middlebury. 4) International experiences and connections with Oxbridge, which Middlebury lacks. You can check the Humanities program but

Middlebury-CMRS students are Associate Members of Keble College, but are not enrolled at the University of Oxford, and neither Keble College nor the University of Oxford have any responsibility for academic, pastoral, accommodation or disciplinary matters relating to M-CMRS. Students on the program are housed in St Michael’s Hall, in Oxford city center.

and the college doesn't have the fellowship funding for oxbridge study like Williams and Pomona 5) More campus events from more notable scholars including Bill Nye for Parents weekend, Oren Case, Ruha Benjamin, Carl Phillips, Kwame Appiah, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Lonnie G. Bunch III, Sal Khan, and other big speakers all have passed by, while Midd tends to have more academics. 6) Midd is currently having a class size issue, while Williams can maintain a massive tutorials program 7) Both Williams and Pomona have Nobel prize alum. Midd doesn't 8) these exceptional faculty resources lead to better outcomes for graduate school and professional school.

Both Williams and Middlebury have issues with faculty recruitment and retention, due primarily to their rural locations and lack of affordable housing and childcare services. Lack of spousal job opportunities also impacts both colleges. With its suburban location, Pomona deals less with these issues, although a high cost of living is in play.

Williams also isn't immune to budget cuts. Just two years ago, they asked all department heads to identify 15% budget cuts from their FY24 budgets due to a poor endowment performance the prior year.

Middlebury is unmatched in its global presence, with 75 programs in 40 countries. You mention Middlebury's affiliation with Keble College at Oxford, but didn't mention the Lincoln College Visiting Student Program. Students at the Williams-Exeter Program are similarly visiting, non-matriculated Oxford students, although they are fully integrated into Exeter's social and academic circles. And around 25 students participate per year. More than 50 Middlebury students study at Oxford every year. To my knowledge, Pomona doesn't have any affiliation with Oxford. They do have the Program at Jesus College, Cambridge, which students from any of the Claremont Colleges can join.

You mention more campus events from more notable scholars--this is entirely subjective. The names you mention are not necessarily well known outside academic circles. And if you want to consider Bill Nye the Science Guy as a real catch, good for you. Middlebury attracts plenty of accomplished guest speakers.

Williams maintains a massive tutorial program? As I understand it, the college offers 65ish tutorials per year, each with two students. So a total of ~130 students take a tutorial every year. The college says that just over half of Williams students take a tutorial during their time at the college. If "night and day" hinges on your opportunity to take one class while you're in college (and half don't even take advantage of it), so be it.

How does having a Nobel Prize-winning alum impact the current student experience? Bragging rights, okay. But what's the impact on everyday life?

Middlebury does just fine with grad school placement compared to peers.

Listen--Williams and Pomona are wealthier schools--no doubt about that. But saying this added wealth makes a "night and day" difference concerning the overall academic experience is ludicrous and shows bias on your part.

There's a poster on this site who scours news outlets, Middlebury's website, and the college paper for any negative stories and creates threads about them. I'm not certain what their motivation is, but I don't see them doing the same for other SLACs.

I think most students would conclude a wealthier school has more resources. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between URochester and Harvard. More resources does impact your college experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:35 students in a class is still quite small, and if you come from a public high school, that’s close to normal, granted most probably came from private. These kids need to stop whining because there is little difference between 20 and 35 in a college class, even 9 and 20 or 35. If they can’t find a way to speak up or use AI to cheat on readings, that tells you more about student. Welcome to the real world.

Extensive research has shown that the ideal class size to facilitate learning, discussion, and engagement is 16 students. So yes, 20 is a lot better and just a few more than the ideal size, rather than 35 (which is double the ideal size).

Cite your source.

Educator here, it's not rocket science. https://ecommons.cornell.edu/items/fdf9ce53-d846-4b23-a551-78730bc4b0b9

The literature review starting on Page 5 suggests all kinds of mixed and confounding effects.

The data in the paper is based solely on SUNY Binghamton students from 1992-2004.

What if better students like smaller classes?

What if better students also do well in large lecture classes but the effect is drowned out by anonymity-seeking slackers?

This paper is a large data set contribution to a body of literature. It is not even LAC data. And I think Bing is more selective now than it was back then (although I don't think that matters much).

I would like better evidence.

Do you think there’s something unique about SUNY bing that would make these results non generalizable?

[Anonymous]

AI is doing away with language study which is Middlebury’s bread a butter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

Interesting post, but are you sure that Middlebury College has a larger EPS (endowment per student) than Northwestern University ?

My figures are from the NACUBO report on endowments published in 2023; it shows Northwestern with the 31st highest EPS and Middlebury farther down the list at #60. Do you have more recent figures ? TIA

https://insidehighered.com/opinion/columns/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

Many schools want to avoid the endowment tax so, if I recall correctly, it is good from this perspective to be below $500,000 per full-time student endowment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

Interesting post, but are you sure that Middlebury College has a larger EPS (endowment per student) than Northwestern University ?

My figures are from the NACUBO report on endowments published in 2023; it shows Northwestern with the 31st highest EPS and Middlebury farther down the list at #60. Do you have more recent figures ? TIA

https://insidehighered.com/opinion/columns/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

Many schools want to avoid the endowment tax so, if I recall correctly, it is good from this perspective to be below $500,000 per full-time student endowment.

The endowment tax doesn’t apply to small colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

+1, I love midd. I donate to Midd as a proud parent, but the institution missed out on a decade and a half of financial glory that peer lacs have reached (Swat, Pomona, Williams, and Amherst all passing the three billion dollar endowment mark). It has also made poor enrollment decisions that have helped erode campus culture. I have a DS at Midd and a DD at Williams, and a nephew at Pomona-the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day. It’s a wonderful school but you have to face reality

You had me until this: "the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day."

What differences are night and day?

Sure, 1) conference and research funding is more abundant. Williams particularly has nearly non-exhaustive research funding and apparently Pomona's student government recently voted to potentially reduce the amount per student, because they've never run out of the fund. 2) Both schools deal less with faculty retention issues than Middlebury and they attract more faculty 3) less staff cuts/issues than Middlebury. 4) International experiences and connections with Oxbridge, which Middlebury lacks. You can check the Humanities program but

Middlebury-CMRS students are Associate Members of Keble College, but are not enrolled at the University of Oxford, and neither Keble College nor the University of Oxford have any responsibility for academic, pastoral, accommodation or disciplinary matters relating to M-CMRS. Students on the program are housed in St Michael’s Hall, in Oxford city center.

and the college doesn't have the fellowship funding for oxbridge study like Williams and Pomona 5) More campus events from more notable scholars including Bill Nye for Parents weekend, Oren Case, Ruha Benjamin, Carl Phillips, Kwame Appiah, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Lonnie G. Bunch III, Sal Khan, and other big speakers all have passed by, while Midd tends to have more academics. 6) Midd is currently having a class size issue, while Williams can maintain a massive tutorials program 7) Both Williams and Pomona have Nobel prize alum. Midd doesn't 8) these exceptional faculty resources lead to better outcomes for graduate school and professional school.

I think most students would conclude a wealthier school has more resources. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between URochester and Harvard. More resources does impact your college experience.

To a point. The issue is with the "night and day" comment. And I think a student could get just as good an education at URochester as they would at Harvard, where the hardest thing you'll have to do is get in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

+1, I love midd. I donate to Midd as a proud parent, but the institution missed out on a decade and a half of financial glory that peer lacs have reached (Swat, Pomona, Williams, and Amherst all passing the three billion dollar endowment mark). It has also made poor enrollment decisions that have helped erode campus culture. I have a DS at Midd and a DD at Williams, and a nephew at Pomona-the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day. It’s a wonderful school but you have to face reality

You had me until this: "the differences in resources between midd and the latter two are night and day."

What differences are night and day?

Sure, 1) conference and research funding is more abundant. Williams particularly has nearly non-exhaustive research funding and apparently Pomona's student government recently voted to potentially reduce the amount per student, because they've never run out of the fund. 2) Both schools deal less with faculty retention issues than Middlebury and they attract more faculty 3) less staff cuts/issues than Middlebury. 4) International experiences and connections with Oxbridge, which Middlebury lacks. You can check the Humanities program but

Middlebury-CMRS students are Associate Members of Keble College, but are not enrolled at the University of Oxford, and neither Keble College nor the University of Oxford have any responsibility for academic, pastoral, accommodation or disciplinary matters relating to M-CMRS. Students on the program are housed in St Michael’s Hall, in Oxford city center.

and the college doesn't have the fellowship funding for oxbridge study like Williams and Pomona 5) More campus events from more notable scholars including Bill Nye for Parents weekend, Oren Case, Ruha Benjamin, Carl Phillips, Kwame Appiah, Siddhartha Mukherjee, Lonnie G. Bunch III, Sal Khan, and other big speakers all have passed by, while Midd tends to have more academics. 6) Midd is currently having a class size issue, while Williams can maintain a massive tutorials program 7) Both Williams and Pomona have Nobel prize alum. Midd doesn't 8) these exceptional faculty resources lead to better outcomes for graduate school and professional school.

Both Williams and Middlebury have issues with faculty recruitment and retention, due primarily to their rural locations and lack of affordable housing and childcare services. Lack of spousal job opportunities also impacts both colleges. With its suburban location, Pomona deals less with these issues, although a high cost of living is in play.

Williams also isn't immune to budget cuts. Just two years ago, they asked all department heads to identify 15% budget cuts from their FY24 budgets due to a poor endowment performance the prior year.

Middlebury is unmatched in its global presence, with 75 programs in 40 countries. You mention Middlebury's affiliation with Keble College at Oxford, but didn't mention the Lincoln College Visiting Student Program. Students at the Williams-Exeter Program are similarly visiting, non-matriculated Oxford students, although they are fully integrated into Exeter's social and academic circles. And around 25 students participate per year. More than 50 Middlebury students study at Oxford every year. To my knowledge, Pomona doesn't have any affiliation with Oxford. They do have the Program at Jesus College, Cambridge, which students from any of the Claremont Colleges can join.

You mention more campus events from more notable scholars--this is entirely subjective. The names you mention are not necessarily well known outside academic circles. And if you want to consider Bill Nye the Science Guy as a real catch, good for you. Middlebury attracts plenty of accomplished guest speakers.

Williams maintains a massive tutorial program? As I understand it, the college offers 65ish tutorials per year, each with two students. So a total of ~130 students take a tutorial every year. The college says that just over half of Williams students take a tutorial during their time at the college. If "night and day" hinges on your opportunity to take one class while you're in college (and half don't even take advantage of it), so be it.

How does having a Nobel Prize-winning alum impact the current student experience? Bragging rights, okay. But what's the impact on everyday life?

Middlebury does just fine with grad school placement compared to peers.

Listen--Williams and Pomona are wealthier schools--no doubt about that. But saying this added wealth makes a "night and day" difference concerning the overall academic experience is ludicrous and shows bias on your part.

There's a poster on this site who scours news outlets, Middlebury's website, and the college paper for any negative stories and creates threads about them. I'm not certain what their motivation is, but I don't see them doing the same for other SLACs.

Just wanted to add that previous poster said Oxbridge, not Oxford, and that the Claremont colleges is another benefit of itself. Also tutorial is a serious advantage and you failed to mention that most of the students who do tutorial do more than one, so it clearly is a transformative experience. About 1/2 of students study abroad at each of these schools- you wouldn’t call study abroad a useless resource just because not everyone uses it and the same is true of tutorials.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

Interesting post, but are you sure that Middlebury College has a larger EPS (endowment per student) than Northwestern University ?

My figures are from the NACUBO report on endowments published in 2023; it shows Northwestern with the 31st highest EPS and Middlebury farther down the list at #60. Do you have more recent figures ? TIA

https://insidehighered.com/opinion/columns/learning-innovation/2023/09/08/endowments-full-time-equivalent-student

Many schools want to avoid the endowment tax so, if I recall correctly, it is good from this perspective to be below $500,000 per full-time student endowment.

The endowment tax doesn’t apply to small colleges.

Thank you. I am aware that the endowment tax applies only to colleges & universities with 3,000 students or more.

Middlebury College does not have a higher endowment per full-time equivalent student than Northwestern University for the most recently reported fiscal year (2024). NU's EPS is significantly higher than Middlebury's EPS (by almost $200,000 per student).

Middlebury College EPS = $494,120

Northwestern University EPS = $686,393.

Overall total endowment: Middlebury College = almost $1.6 billion; Northwestern University = over $14.2 billion.

[Anonymous]

Williams does t have serious issues with faculty retention. Occasionally, there’s a black faculty member who comes who can’t get tenure and they scream at the world that williamstown is rural Alabama because they’re incompetent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Williams does t have serious issues with faculty retention. Occasionally, there’s a black faculty member who comes who can’t get tenure and they scream at the world that williamstown is rural Alabama because they’re incompetent.

Are you personally conducting and vetting performance reviews for professors at Williams who are up for tenure each year? How do YOU know who is and who isn't incompetent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams does t have serious issues with faculty retention. Occasionally, there’s a black faculty member who comes who can’t get tenure and they scream at the world that williamstown is rural Alabama because they’re incompetent.

Are you personally conducting and vetting performance reviews for professors at Williams who are up for tenure each year? How do YOU know who is and who isn't incompetent.

If you can’t get tenure, you’re incompetent. White faculty members suck it up and work harder at the next institution, but all the poc faculty complain and get $hitty Williams records written by their students about how unfair Williams is and how racist everyone else is for that professors personal failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds about right. They need the money, bad.

Ah, the Middlebury troll is back.

Middlebury has zero financial problems, has never had any and likely never will. They are in the top 50 or so schools in the country in terms of endowment (larger than U Miami for example) with more resources per student than schools such as Cornell, Brown, Northwestern, Chicago.

Middlebury has had a small nagging deficit for awhile because Laurie Patton preferred to just ignore it. Baucomb quickly made the right decision on MIIS and I suspect that it will quickly disappear. Even if it didn't the actual budget effect is small kind of like their $1.6B endowment functioning more like a $1.4B endowment. Middlebury also draws conservatively from their endowment, taking a full point less (4.5-5.0%) than peer schools like Colby for example.

It factually has a deficit that president Baucom is working to fix. As an alum, it’s tiring seeing threads delude themselves that there’s anything but a deficit.

Nobody said it wasn't a deficit but it is a meaningless one except for being a bit embarrassing. As to delusion, the only delusion here is you pretending to be a Middlebury Alum.

So meaningless the president immediately needed to address it and then chose to shut down MIIS? This is the concern of much of MAA, so I’m not sure why you’re brushing it off as if it hasn’t hemorrhaged the institution.

Look, we've went thorough this with you before.

Baucomb didn't need to address anything regarding the deficit because it is noise no matter how much you blither. Their investment grade credit rating shows exactly how much anyone cared about the deficit.

Baucomb did need to address MIIS because it was the cause of the deficits and has been under discussion among the Faculty from the day it was acquired. MIIS was acquired against the wishes of the Faculty and they have never been quiet about their feelings that it detracted from Middlebury's core mission. They were right and it was a failing on the part of Laurie Patton to not have addressed the situation sooner. The new president is addressing this not because it is any real financial burden but rather it is an issue that needs addressing and he likely doesn't want the noise during his tenure.

He addressed both. It's clear you don't actually engage with the MAA and are overly defensive about a truth. Middlebury is a great institution, but it isn't perfect.

He mentioned the deficit as any thinking being would.

Basically you are just a fu*king idiot. You have been batted around before and the result will be the same this time. I'll let others step in because we don't put up with your nonsense.