NYT Headline “Did Women Ruin the Workplace?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the article. Obviously, women should be treated as equals, etc, but I think it is worth asking questions about whether many of feminism's achievements have actually improved things for women. Arguably, women now have to do everything a man has to do, in addition to everything that women do, and it doesn't seem like this is a good deal. Men are miserable, women report the lowest levels of happiness in decades, and yet we can't question whether this is all working for us.

You’re right! Women would be so much happier without their own money and bank accounts (which they got in 1974). (Sarcasm clearly)

Men are unhappy because they must function as adults without a servant at home to wait on them. They also feel this way about slavery, which is why white supremacy is openly discussed and platformed.

Women are unhappy because there is a serious backlash going on! Although there are a collection of lazy dumb women who are ok with trad wife life and being subservient. Most are not.

So taking care of kids and the home = lazy.

Got it misogynist.

First trad wife doesn’t necessarily have kids. Taking care of young kids is hard work but not working (or volunteering) after kids start school is lazy. Oh and playing tennis at the club is UMC trad wife and is just as embarrassing.

[Anonymous]

To fix this, we need to fix all of society and how our economy works. Of course younger people are giving up, because it has become such an awful game where there a few big winners and everyone else loses. It is getting harder and harder to be a big winner, and life becomes worse and worse if you aren’t a big winner.

It makes no sense to blame men or blame women for this. Blame greed and billionaires that require that men and women both stay on the hamster wheel just to keep afloat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Is there actually any argument for the opposite?

If your brain just goes to women and not a million other factors that have changed over time, that's a you problem.

As for the workplace, are any of them really better from having HR departments or other such areas birthed by feminism?

Yes. People no longer have to put up with groping, harassment, racist jokes, nude pinups, and other things that don’t belong in a workplace.

[Anonymous]

The article never defines woke, or what feminization means and why it’s bad. Even the assumption baked into the headline is antiquated and sexist - that workplaces are spaces owned exclusively by men, and women are interlopers who ruin them. One could equally ask “Did patriarchy ruin the workplace?”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The article never defines woke, or what feminization means and why it’s bad. Even the assumption baked into the headline is antiquated and sexist - that workplaces are spaces owned exclusively by men, and women are interlopers who ruin them. One could equally ask “Did patriarchy ruin the workplace?”

Exactly. It was a very specific presumption that has nothing at all to do with whether women are happy or can have it all or division of labor blah blah. It was a question about whether women ruined “the” a.k.a. “men’s” workplace.

[Anonymous]

As my awesome MIL told me - the best advice I got before marrying - "It is never going to be 50/50 through your marriage."

She's spot on. It's been 18 years and 2 kids later. Some years, it's me doing more and some years it's him, some years it's 50/50.

This country needs to simply accept what is. There's no defining it. Men and women both sometimes have to work, take leadership roles, can relax their whole lives. It's never just all women or all men who impact negatively. We're all just trying to make a living and get by best we can

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the article. Obviously, women should be treated as equals, etc, but I think it is worth asking questions about whether many of feminism's achievements have actually improved things for women. Arguably, women now have to do everything a man has to do, in addition to everything that women do, and it doesn't seem like this is a good deal. Men are miserable, women report the lowest levels of happiness in decades, and yet we can't question whether this is all working for us.

You’re right! Women would be so much happier without their own money and bank accounts (which they got in 1974). (Sarcasm clearly)

Men are unhappy because they must function as adults without a servant at home to wait on them. They also feel this way about slavery, which is why white supremacy is openly discussed and platformed.

Women are unhappy because there is a serious backlash going on! Although there are a collection of lazy dumb women who are ok with trad wife life and being subservient. Most are not.

So taking care of kids and the home = lazy.

Got it misogynist.

Yep. The usual angry loudmouth who shows her true colors every time she posts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the article. Obviously, women should be treated as equals, etc, but I think it is worth asking questions about whether many of feminism's achievements have actually improved things for women. Arguably, women now have to do everything a man has to do, in addition to everything that women do, and it doesn't seem like this is a good deal. Men are miserable, women report the lowest levels of happiness in decades, and yet we can't question whether this is all working for us.

I think the answer is that men should do more. I mean, people can decide what’s best for them, but if you have two people working then you can’t rely on one of them for most other tasks, too.

It's not even just the tasks. It's all the planning and organizing that they somehow can't see and do not help with. My husband and I split most chores evenly. For example, we switch off weeks of meal planning and cooking meals. So it's split 50:50, and he is quite proud of himself for this. But he seems to think a magical elf manages the pantry and restocks to cooking oil and seasonings, who cleans out the fridge and scrubs the shelves, who wipes down the counters and mops the floor, etc. But if you ask him, he does half the work of feeding our family.

It's also the weaponized incompetence, or in the case of my husband the weaponized "not caring." I'll give an example. When we are dividing up who will handle which tasks, my husband will simply declare a lot of tasks that I care about as "unnecessary." A small child's basic (not over the top) birthday party, holiday cards, thank you notes, contributing to the class gift for the teacher, etc. If I list these tasks as things that are on my plate, he will say "so just don't do those things." Like he has magically solved "my problem" for me.

The simple answer is to stop doing those things for him and his family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the article. Obviously, women should be treated as equals, etc, but I think it is worth asking questions about whether many of feminism's achievements have actually improved things for women. Arguably, women now have to do everything a man has to do, in addition to everything that women do, and it doesn't seem like this is a good deal. Men are miserable, women report the lowest levels of happiness in decades, and yet we can't question whether this is all working for us.

You’re right! Women would be so much happier without their own money and bank accounts (which they got in 1974). (Sarcasm clearly)

Men are unhappy because they must function as adults without a servant at home to wait on them. They also feel this way about slavery, which is why white supremacy is openly discussed and platformed.

Women are unhappy because there is a serious backlash going on! Although there are a collection of lazy dumb women who are ok with trad wife life and being subservient. Most are not.

There are a lot of ways to do feminism. Europe also embraced feminism, but have had very different outcomes than us. They didn't emphasize work as much as American feminism, for example, and so women are largely at home with babies and then work when they get older. Part time work is more prevalant. Yet American feminists would call this, as you do, "lazy dumb women who are okay with trad wife life." I'll just point out that their levels of happiness are much higher than American women.

You are completely brainwashed into believing that modern American feminists are the only people who understand women and the needs of women.

Many European countries also have a social safety net for women, unlike the US. The male politicians in the Scandinavian countries unlike American ones actually voted for things like universal healthcare, subsidized childcare, maternal post-partum care, and free university education. If the US could guarantee those things, American women wouldn't be so f'd if they didn't have full-time employment. The problem is not women who embrace liberal feminism, the problem is the men who think they are absolved of responsibility if women work.

This- women here have to be stupid not have a job while having children if they don't have a decent financial safety net.

[Anonymous]

I kept my subscription to NYT and WaPo, because a lot of the writers are good people. But I agree, OP, that this piece is outrageous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Is there actually any argument for the opposite?

If your brain just goes to women and not a million other factors that have changed over time, that's a you problem.

As for the workplace, are any of them really better from having HR departments or other such areas birthed by feminism?

Yes. People no longer have to put up with groping, harassment, racist jokes, nude pinups, and other things that don’t belong in a workplace.

because women find it offensive

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the article. Obviously, women should be treated as equals, etc, but I think it is worth asking questions about whether many of feminism's achievements have actually improved things for women. Arguably, women now have to do everything a man has to do, in addition to everything that women do, and it doesn't seem like this is a good deal. Men are miserable, women report the lowest levels of happiness in decades, and yet we can't question whether this is all working for us.

I think the answer is that men should do more. I mean, people can decide what’s best for them, but if you have two people working then you can’t rely on one of them for most other tasks, too.

It's not even just the tasks. It's all the planning and organizing that they somehow can't see and do not help with. My husband and I split most chores evenly. For example, we switch off weeks of meal planning and cooking meals. So it's split 50:50, and he is quite proud of himself for this. But he seems to think a magical elf manages the pantry and restocks to cooking oil and seasonings, who cleans out the fridge and scrubs the shelves, who wipes down the counters and mops the floor, etc. But if you ask him, he does half the work of feeding our family.

NP, you wait until you hear the husbands side before making any judgements.

It's also the weaponized incompetence, or in the case of my husband the weaponized "not caring." I'll give an example. When we are dividing up who will handle which tasks, my husband will simply declare a lot of tasks that I care about as "unnecessary." A small child's basic (not over the top) birthday party, holiday cards, thank you notes, contributing to the class gift for the teacher, etc. If I list these tasks as things that are on my plate, he will say "so just don't do those things." Like he has magically solved "my problem" for me.

The simple answer is to stop doing those things for him and his family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the article. Obviously, women should be treated as equals, etc, but I think it is worth asking questions about whether many of feminism's achievements have actually improved things for women. Arguably, women now have to do everything a man has to do, in addition to everything that women do, and it doesn't seem like this is a good deal. Men are miserable, women report the lowest levels of happiness in decades, and yet we can't question whether this is all working for us.

I think the answer is that men should do more. I mean, people can decide what’s best for them, but if you have two people working then you can’t rely on one of them for most other tasks, too.

It's not even just the tasks. It's all the planning and organizing that they somehow can't see and do not help with. My husband and I split most chores evenly. For example, we switch off weeks of meal planning and cooking meals. So it's split 50:50, and he is quite proud of himself for this. But he seems to think a magical elf manages the pantry and restocks to cooking oil and seasonings, who cleans out the fridge and scrubs the shelves, who wipes down the counters and mops the floor, etc. But if you ask him, he does half the work of feeding our family.

It's also the weaponized incompetence, or in the case of my husband the weaponized "not caring." I'll give an example. When we are dividing up who will handle which tasks, my husband will simply declare a lot of tasks that I care about as "unnecessary." A small child's basic (not over the top) birthday party, holiday cards, thank you notes, contributing to the class gift for the teacher, etc. If I list these tasks as things that are on my plate, he will say "so just don't do those things." Like he has magically solved "my problem" for me.

The simple answer is to stop doing those things for him and his family.

NP, you should wait until you hear the husbands side before making any judgements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Is there actually any argument for the opposite?

If your brain just goes to women and not a million other factors that have changed over time, that's a you problem.

As for the workplace, are any of them really better from having HR departments or other such areas birthed by feminism?

Yes. People no longer have to put up with groping, harassment, racist jokes, nude pinups, and other things that don’t belong in a workplace.

because women find it offensive

Cry harder

[Anonymous]

I can’t really make it all the way through any Douhat piece. But I think this is kind of a funny topic in light of the contemporaneous expose about how female Heritage Institute staffers turn out NOT to be amused to be treated like brood mares by their bosses.

At the end of the day no young smart woman wants to be told she is “ruining the workplace” no matter what her politics. These women making the contrary argument are just grifters.