NYT expose on The Tell by Amy Griffin

[Anonymous]

I am the person saying it makes me uncomfortable people think she is a fraud

I don't know much about recovered memories when it comes to drugs, I admit that

But I do know 100% that you can know something terrible has happened and the ability of the mind to not let you go there

I also know there was SERIOUS work by some people to fund "research" regarding recovered memories particularly regarding CSA and how they aren't true ----- in the end, the researchers were highly personally motivated to prove that this doesn't really happen

All that said, the idea that others didn't come forward so she must be lying is very disturbing to me

[Anonymous]

PS- and that she didn't tell anyone over the years... well, sometimes it's a shameful thing

Again, this may or not apply in this situation, but please let's not perpetuate the narrative that women who didn't tell other people at the time must be lying, or if no other vicitms come forward, the one who has is lying

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PS- and that she didn't tell anyone over the years... well, sometimes it's a shameful thing

Again, this may or not apply in this situation, but please let's not perpetuate the narrative that women who didn't tell other people at the time must be lying, or if no other vicitms come forward, the one who has is lying

I get what you are saying, but her attorney accused another alleged victim of lying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PS- and that she didn't tell anyone over the years... well, sometimes it's a shameful thing

Again, this may or not apply in this situation, but please let's not perpetuate the narrative that women who didn't tell other people at the time must be lying, or if no other vicitms come forward, the one who has is lying

She’s not saying she didn’t tell bc she was ashamed, she’s saying she didn’t remember things that happened when she was a teenager until suddenly she recalled them with exquisite clarity.

I am a mental health professional and I find this extraordinarily hard to believe. I would actually find it much more believable that she did remember some sexual abuse but was ashamed and is using the mdma experience to begin talking about it. But the story as it is simply doesn’t hold up as accurate. (Again, perfectly willing to believe she was assaulted but what she describes is not how memory works, at all.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PS- and that she didn't tell anyone over the years... well, sometimes it's a shameful thing

Again, this may or not apply in this situation, but please let's not perpetuate the narrative that women who didn't tell other people at the time must be lying, or if no other vicitms come forward, the one who has is lying

I'm a PP who expressed discomfort with the whole thing. I absolutely do not want to perpetuate the narrative that women who don't come forward must be lying or anything like that. My discomfort is first and foremost with her lawyer calling another alleged victim a liar when her own story is imperfect. But on top of that, she didn't need to write AND publish AND aggressively promote a book about it to be believed. A book touting a method of memory recovery that she happens to be financially invested in. That's extra. It is, of course, her right to do so. But it leaves me with a lot of uncomfortable questions. Does anyone care what I think? Nope. But a lot of other people seem to have this same discomfort.

[Anonymous]

Ridiculous nonsense of a book, but not necessarily grift. The author's only issue is to feel so sure the alleged perpetrator did what they did. That's not necessarily ethical, given how the memories were recovered.

Oprah tends to fall hard to that type of story. I don't think she cares that it's true or not - she's running a business and one of her many talents is tuning into the Zeitgeist and identifying a book that's going to make waves.

[Anonymous]

I don't think she's lying or grifting. I think she really believes this happened to her.
Unfortunately (as far as I'm aware at least) she doesn't seem to have anyone who was willing to tell her that maybe memories recovered under MDMA use could be distorted or untrue. She appears to be someone who from a very early age was regarded highly by others-pretty, wealthy (then super wealthy), popular, etc and was used to being treated accordingly. This is a person who presents as someone who is unused to hearing "no" or being challenged. I think writing a book where it's made pretty obvious who the accused is is irresponsible. Most of us would have people in our lives challenging us and would not have the connections to publish a memoir.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PS- and that she didn't tell anyone over the years... well, sometimes it's a shameful thing

Again, this may or not apply in this situation, but please let's not perpetuate the narrative that women who didn't tell other people at the time must be lying, or if no other vicitms come forward, the one who has is lying

She’s not saying she didn’t tell bc she was ashamed, she’s saying she didn’t remember things that happened when she was a teenager until suddenly she recalled them with exquisite clarity.

I am a mental health professional and I find this extraordinarily hard to believe. I would actually find it much more believable that she did remember some sexual abuse but was ashamed and is using the mdma experience to begin talking about it. But the story as it is simply doesn’t hold up as accurate. (Again, perfectly willing to believe she was assaulted but what she describes is not how memory works, at all.)

That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.
I am not a mental health professional but have learned a LOT more than I would like from lived experience about repression of traumatic memories. For me, they were fuzzy until they weren't, but you are right that in my case there was always a root of memory. I am sensitive because i have been accused of making up SA because those memories were fuzzy.

[Anonymous]

I agree that she’s not necessarily lying, even if these “memories” aren’t real. She may genuinely believe the recovered memories are 100% accurate. However, she only became consciously aware of these alleged events while using a drug that makes people hallucinate. This whole journey started with her hallucinating that this teacher was in the room with her.

“Before taking the MDMA pill, Ms. Griffin told the facilitator, ‘There’s something I can’t face. I know something happened to me, something I’m talking around. But I don’t know what it is.’

Five minutes into the session, she writes in the book, she sat up and said, ‘Why is he here?’

The facilitator asked, ‘Who?’

‘Mr. Mason. From my middle school,’ Ms. Griffin said. (Mr. Mason is the pseudonym she uses for the teacher in the book.)”

Her allegations might be the absolute truth, but they’re based solely on memories that surfaced while she was in an MDMA-induced hallucinogenic state. There is no evidence that independently corroborates any of these memories. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re pure fiction, but that does mean they should be viewed with some skepticism. If this teacher raped a minor repeatedly, he’s getting off incredibly easy…but if he’s totally innocent of these allegations, the poor guy’s life has been turned upside down and there’s no way to clear his name and restore his reputation.

[Anonymous]

Do people really still follow Oprah’s book recommendations ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that she’s not necessarily lying, even if these “memories” aren’t real. She may genuinely believe the recovered memories are 100% accurate. However, she only became consciously aware of these alleged events while using a drug that makes people hallucinate. This whole journey started with her hallucinating that this teacher was in the room with her.

“Before taking the MDMA pill, Ms. Griffin told the facilitator, ‘There’s something I can’t face. I know something happened to me, something I’m talking around. But I don’t know what it is.’

Five minutes into the session, she writes in the book, she sat up and said, ‘Why is he here?’

The facilitator asked, ‘Who?’

‘Mr. Mason. From my middle school,’ Ms. Griffin said. (Mr. Mason is the pseudonym she uses for the teacher in the book.)”

Her allegations might be the absolute truth, but they’re based solely on memories that surfaced while she was in an MDMA-induced hallucinogenic state. There is no evidence that independently corroborates any of these memories. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re pure fiction, but that does mean they should be viewed with some skepticism. If this teacher raped a minor repeatedly, he’s getting off incredibly easy…but if he’s totally innocent of these allegations, the poor guy’s life has been turned upside down and there’s no way to clear his name and restore his reputation.

I’m curious why the nyt didn’t interview a psychiatrist or a neurologist or anyone who knows anything about either memory or repressed memories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PS- and that she didn't tell anyone over the years... well, sometimes it's a shameful thing

Again, this may or not apply in this situation, but please let's not perpetuate the narrative that women who didn't tell other people at the time must be lying, or if no other vicitms come forward, the one who has is lying

I'm a PP who expressed discomfort with the whole thing. I absolutely do not want to perpetuate the narrative that women who don't come forward must be lying or anything like that. My discomfort is first and foremost with her lawyer calling another alleged victim a liar when her own story is imperfect. But on top of that, she didn't need to write AND publish AND aggressively promote a book about it to be believed. A book touting a method of memory recovery that she happens to be financially invested in. That's extra. It is, of course, her right to do so. But it leaves me with a lot of uncomfortable questions. Does anyone care what I think? Nope. But a lot of other people seem to have this same discomfort.

100% agree with this. Something just seems a bit off. That, and she used a ghost writer to talk about an extremely traumatic and personal topic.

[Anonymous]

It is going to be interesting to see how Oprah and Reese and Jenna and the like handle this if/when Amy comes out with some sort of response.

[Anonymous]

People need to realize that, as they age, women need to feel relevant and seek ways to find that. Writing a book about horrific remembered abuse could fill that void. The need to feel important and have others feel you are important is strong in women, especially women who were used to feeling important during their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that she’s not necessarily lying, even if these “memories” aren’t real. She may genuinely believe the recovered memories are 100% accurate. However, she only became consciously aware of these alleged events while using a drug that makes people hallucinate. This whole journey started with her hallucinating that this teacher was in the room with her.

“Before taking the MDMA pill, Ms. Griffin told the facilitator, ‘There’s something I can’t face. I know something happened to me, something I’m talking around. But I don’t know what it is.’

Five minutes into the session, she writes in the book, she sat up and said, ‘Why is he here?’

The facilitator asked, ‘Who?’

‘Mr. Mason. From my middle school,’ Ms. Griffin said. (Mr. Mason is the pseudonym she uses for the teacher in the book.)”

Her allegations might be the absolute truth, but they’re based solely on memories that surfaced while she was in an MDMA-induced hallucinogenic state. There is no evidence that independently corroborates any of these memories. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re pure fiction, but that does mean they should be viewed with some skepticism. If this teacher raped a minor repeatedly, he’s getting off incredibly easy…but if he’s totally innocent of these allegations, the poor guy’s life has been turned upside down and there’s no way to clear his name and restore his reputation.

I’m curious why the nyt didn’t interview a psychiatrist or a neurologist or anyone who knows anything about either memory or repressed memories.

Same.

Article was weirdly incomplete.