AI detectors - warning

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there anywhere "safe" for a student to check without the uploading causing AI generation flagging itself? Can one just load essay into chatGPT and ask, or are there other apps that are better?

You don't upload to GPT to check for AI. OMG.

Stupid question, but why not?

GPT is not a AI checker. It manufactures AI. It will hallucinate and tell you there's no AI when there is.

There are separate platforms for checking. Many were named earlier -
the best are: Originality, GPTZero, zerogpt, and WalterAI. The OP mentioned one I'd never heard of but apparently schools now use it in addition to Turnitin bc it's the most reliable?

Thank you for this. We always fear that uploading and checking adds another data point which ends up flagging an original essay as AI-generated. Would these apps do that? The OP seems to allude to the fact that some of these apps would do just that.

No. That’s not how AI detection works. It’s looking for syntax, watermarks, hidden structures that are emblematic of AI.

In college, many papers are screened through Originality/Turnitin. Once inputted it doesn’t become AI.

The OPs problem was accepting grammarly changes. It can turn a paper from 0-5% AI to 90-99% AI with accepted grammar/ phrasing changes to ONE SENTENCE.

Remember an AI detection of 90% does not mean that 90% of the written work posted is produced with AI. It means there’s a 90% chance that a portion or all of the document was produced with AI.

[Anonymous]

I’ve never used an AI checker, but out of curiosity, I just ran two cover letters through zerogpt that I 100% wrote myself. One of them came up 66.78% AI generated and the other one 92.95%. These schools have to know that these checkers are useless, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t understand why any kid needs to use AI at all to write this essay. Not Grammarly, not Claude, not anything. Just write the essay and ask another human to proofread or give feedback.

This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never used an AI checker, but out of curiosity, I just ran two cover letters through zerogpt that I 100% wrote myself. One of them came up 66.78% AI generated and the other one 92.95%. These schools have to know that these checkers are useless, right?

yes.

if I were in the AI game, I'd work on a better checker.

Siting three examples in a row, utilizing a well-placed semi-colon, and finishing with an Oxford comma do not an AI-generated paper make! ya know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t understand why any kid needs to use AI at all to write this essay. Not Grammarly, not Claude, not anything. Just write the essay and ask another human to proofread or give feedback.

They never learned how to write properly, probably public school kids.

My DS went to an urban public school and writes well, so well, in fact, that he had none of the problems with his application essays described in the “Essays” thread started here recently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate AI but every kid I know has a paid essay coach. A lot of kids can’t afford that kind of assistance. If they use AI is that worse? I don’t know…the entire essay thing is kind of a mess.

Out here in the real world of regular public school seniors, I don’t know anyone who has a paid essay coach. So assuming your world is of kids aiming for tippy top schools, this is even more pathetic. They should be fully capable of writing an essay unassisted.

+100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never used an AI checker, but out of curiosity, I just ran two cover letters through zerogpt that I 100% wrote myself. One of them came up 66.78% AI generated and the other one 92.95%. These schools have to know that these checkers are useless, right?

Is zerogtp the same as gptzero.me? I just went on and these seem to be two separate ones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never used an AI checker, but out of curiosity, I just ran two cover letters through zerogpt that I 100% wrote myself. One of them came up 66.78% AI generated and the other one 92.95%. These schools have to know that these checkers are useless, right?

Is zerogtp the same as gptzero.me? I just went on and these seem to be two separate ones.

seperate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our advisor said some universities are moving to blue books for essays in the next 1-3 years. Applicants will have to show all essay work from start to finish in a blue book and submit it upon request along with signed honor code at the end of the final draft essay saying the work is 100% their own. Advisor said chances are it won’t be requested but my kid is still freaking out over it.

Are you referring to essay exams written while in college? Or admissions essays? I have already gone back to in person paper and pencil tests for my students for the most part. I'm fine if they use AI to study, but at some point you've got to demonstrate mastery yourself.

DP, but my kid is a freshman in college and just had most of his professors describe how they would/could use AI in the class (and how they couldn’t). My kid really appreciated both the clarity and the recognition that AI is now a tool in almost all workplaces, and they need to know how to best use it, and when not to.

One professor, though, said nothing about AI but said every single assignment must be handwritten. All homework, exams, essays. My kid is dyslexic and had planned not to ask for accommodations as they generally aren’t needed any more…but handwritten essays are going to be messy. It seems a shame to be starting from the premise that kids will use AI to get out of learning. I totally support whatever professors need to do to ensure that students can’t use AI for exams, but if a student uses AI for homework they simply aren’t going to learn and then they’ll fail the test, and isn’t that the consequence?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our advisor said some universities are moving to blue books for essays in the next 1-3 years. Applicants will have to show all essay work from start to finish in a blue book and submit it upon request along with signed honor code at the end of the final draft essay saying the work is 100% their own. Advisor said chances are it won’t be requested but my kid is still freaking out over it.

Are you referring to essay exams written while in college? Or admissions essays? I have already gone back to in person paper and pencil tests for my students for the most part. I'm fine if they use AI to study, but at some point you've got to demonstrate mastery yourself.

DP, but my kid is a freshman in college and just had most of his professors describe how they would/could use AI in the class (and how they couldn’t). My kid really appreciated both the clarity and the recognition that AI is now a tool in almost all workplaces, and they need to know how to best use it, and when not to.

One professor, though, said nothing about AI but said every single assignment must be handwritten. All homework, exams, essays. My kid is dyslexic and had planned not to ask for accommodations as they generally aren’t needed any more…but handwritten essays are going to be messy. It seems a shame to be starting from the premise that kids will use AI to get out of learning. I totally support whatever professors need to do to ensure that students can’t use AI for exams, but if a student uses AI for homework they simply aren’t going to learn and then they’ll fail the test, and isn’t that the consequence?

It’s often a lot of red tape for the professor if too many kids fail the exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our advisor said some universities are moving to blue books for essays in the next 1-3 years. Applicants will have to show all essay work from start to finish in a blue book and submit it upon request along with signed honor code at the end of the final draft essay saying the work is 100% their own. Advisor said chances are it won’t be requested but my kid is still freaking out over it.

Are you referring to essay exams written while in college? Or admissions essays? I have already gone back to in person paper and pencil tests for my students for the most part. I'm fine if they use AI to study, but at some point you've got to demonstrate mastery yourself.

DP, but my kid is a freshman in college and just had most of his professors describe how they would/could use AI in the class (and how they couldn’t). My kid really appreciated both the clarity and the recognition that AI is now a tool in almost all workplaces, and they need to know how to best use it, and when not to.

One professor, though, said nothing about AI but said every single assignment must be handwritten. All homework, exams, essays. My kid is dyslexic and had planned not to ask for accommodations as they generally aren’t needed any more…but handwritten essays are going to be messy. It seems a shame to be starting from the premise that kids will use AI to get out of learning. I totally support whatever professors need to do to ensure that students can’t use AI for exams, but if a student uses AI for homework they simply aren’t going to learn and then they’ll fail the test, and isn’t that the consequence?

It’s often a lot of red tape for the professor if too many kids fail the exam.

If the course policy is no AI and the student uses it for homework, the punishment lands on the _professor_, who then has to bring the case for academic dishonesty (simply in fairness to the other students who _are_ following the rules). Academic dishonesty cases are time-consuming and frustrating. It's better to just prevent the possibility in the first place, hence all of the handwritten work now being done in the classroom while we are watching. It's exhausting. If we could legitimately trust the students to work in the _way_ we tell them to work (because there is learning that comes from the process, not just the product), everything would be so much easier - for them and for us.

[Anonymous]

Some colleges have come out with statements:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/comments/1nali09/t1t10_colleges_stance_on_ai_in_college_admission/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t understand why any kid needs to use AI at all to write this essay. Not Grammarly, not Claude, not anything. Just write the essay and ask another human to proofread or give feedback.

By this level, the student should know where commas are placed and how to edit their writing. Perhaps a remedial writing class could help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t understand why any kid needs to use AI at all to write this essay. Not Grammarly, not Claude, not anything. Just write the essay and ask another human to proofread or give feedback.

Because kids are applying to 15 schools, which means they have 30+ essays to write. This is on top of doing day to day school work for 6 APs (need to get an A — no A-), leadership in a club, volunteer work outside of school, varsity sport, etc. These kids are overwhelmed.

Or, you could just let them be the kid they’re physically and logistically able to be without relying on AI to do their thinking for them. If they’re cutting corners on writing essays, I can only assume they’re cutting corners on some of the other stuff, too. Not so much overwhelmed, as “overwhelmed.”

The problem I have with it is that schools create a system that begs to be gamed. Example:

The Why Us essay- kids in “the know” are told to dig into the school’s website/online info to post things very specific about the school. Such a farce bc that is NOT why the kid wants the school. That is simply giving the school what they want in the answer but it is absolutely not genuine.

Well of course the schools want to admit people who genuinely want to come there. If your kid’s genuine answer doesn’t convey that then maybe they shouldn’t apply there. Cut one off your list and now there are fewer essays to write!

You misunderstand. A kid who wants to go to NYU because it is a prestigious school located in Manhattan is a kid who genuinely wants to go to NYU. But kids are trained not to say that in their “why NYU” essay. They are supposed to say they want to study some random esoteric subject with some professor they’ve never met, who may transfer to a different college before they get there.

Every straight dude wants to have sex with Sidney Sweeney.

She needs a better reason than “you are super hot and I want to sleep with you”.

“But I REALLY WANT TO” also not a great answer.

You’re trying to romance the school, get some game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there anywhere "safe" for a student to check without the uploading causing AI generation flagging itself? Can one just load essay into chatGPT and ask, or are there other apps that are better?

You don't upload to GPT to check for AI. OMG.

Stupid question, but why not?

GPT is not a AI checker. It manufactures AI. It will hallucinate and tell you there's no AI when there is.

There are separate platforms for checking. Many were named earlier -
the best are: Originality, GPTZero, zerogpt, and WalterAI. The OP mentioned one I'd never heard of but apparently schools now use it in addition to Turnitin bc it's the most reliable?

Thank you for this. We always fear that uploading and checking adds another data point which ends up flagging an original essay as AI-generated. Would these apps do that? The OP seems to allude to the fact that some of these apps would do just that.

No. That’s not how AI detection works. It’s looking for syntax, watermarks, hidden structures that are emblematic of AI.

In college, many papers are screened through Originality/Turnitin. Once inputted it doesn’t become AI.

The OPs problem was accepting grammarly changes. It can turn a paper from 0-5% AI to 90-99% AI with accepted grammar/ phrasing changes to ONE SENTENCE.

Remember an AI detection of 90% does not mean that 90% of the written work posted is produced with AI. It means there’s a 90% chance that a portion or all of the document was produced with AI.

I think this is the part not many people realize. I’m not even sure the teachers generally do.