How competitive is it to get into clubs at your child's college?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’m not aware of any competitive clubs at my DC’s slac. Definitely not the vibe there.

Doesn’t apply to all slacs though. I know CMC has a very competitive investment club.

yes to CMC--most clubs and opportunities are competitive and if you're not in by junior year you're shut out of really anything.

I just checked the consulting club and this may have changed, but it seems that a lot of sophomores are on the consulting club and there’s plenty freshman. They probably just prefer having students who have done intro macro and micro economics.

Boy this is stupid, my version of consulting club was getting a book and discussing a case with a friend to get better at analysis, in preparation for an interview with McKinsey or BCG. Taking economics helps, but they also liked science and engineering backgrounds. Why do you need a club for this?

They do career treks and case competitions with consulting firms. You don’t want to be represented by students who know nothing about economics.

Ok I’ll pass. It’s more productive to volunteer with a business or economics professor than be filtered out by a sophomore that literally has zero professional experience.

You're filtered out if you don't have any connections to get into the club. These are networking opportunities that can carry forward into internships and job offers.

How about this idea: you work for a professor on a research project over the summer and develop some skills besides coursework and do your best to do a great job. Next summer you ask for his help in finding an internship through his industry connections. The following summer you build your resume a little and go to job fairs talk to the few connections you’ve built so far, apply to as many jobs as you can and find an internship on your own. Again you do your best and transition into getting a job offer upon graduation.

It just sounds far more realistic than clubs. I literally know dozens of students that did this and I personally wrote letters of recommendations to some of them. I don’t know of anyone that found a job through a club.

I've seen students get job offers via internships and get access to internships through connections from these competitive clubs among other connections. It's one way to help make an opportunity for yourself and the reasons it's competitive to get into some of these clubs. Why do you think it's so competitive to get into these clubs? It's not for fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not aware of any competitive clubs at my DC’s slac. Definitely not the vibe there.

Doesn’t apply to all slacs though. I know CMC has a very competitive investment club.

yes to CMC--most clubs and opportunities are competitive and if you're not in by junior year you're shut out of really anything.

I just checked the consulting club and this may have changed, but it seems that a lot of sophomores are on the consulting club and there’s plenty freshman. They probably just prefer having students who have done intro macro and micro economics.

Boy this is stupid, my version of consulting club was getting a book and discussing a case with a friend to get better at analysis, in preparation for an interview with McKinsey or BCG. Taking economics helps, but they also liked science and engineering backgrounds. Why do you need a club for this?

They do career treks and case competitions with consulting firms. You don’t want to be represented by students who know nothing about economics.

Ok I’ll pass. It’s more productive to volunteer with a business or economics professor than be filtered out by a sophomore that literally has zero professional experience.

Who says they do? Many consulting firms start looking freshman year these days. Seriously, it’s a lot more competitive than when we were in college. Just the natural flow of things.

What do you mean by consulting firms start looking freshman year? Do you mean they want to see what applicants did since freshman year? Ok, but I’m doubtful consulting club is that helpful compared to working with a professor.

You can get a consulting offer for your freshman summer. You begin interviewing for junior summer now in your sophomore year.

[Anonymous]

Consulting club at Stanford does paid cases for Fortune 500 as well as startups. It is a 20hr a week commitment. It is very competitive to get in; but once you are a member of the club your path to MBB has been paved.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the competitive preprof college clubs really matter? My kid is starting at penn and club applications and interviews sound very time consuming... during a time when kids are just settling in. I dont really understand the benefit of and high demand for preprof clubs. Do they provide a real advantage in the future job search or not? Wondering if they can/should avoid those clubs and focus time on studies, meeting people and finding some fun activities/orgs to join. Would appreciate any thoughts/experience on this topic...

For med school no and honestly your kid is better off doing their own thing and avoiding the pre med echo chamber. Not sure about other fields.

Question: While I agree that a lot of premed activities are not clubs (research, shadowing), it seems like one club a lot of premeds do and seem to think is helpful is EMT. Is that right? How competitive is that at various schools? Wondering particularly about competitiveness at mid-size (ivy, wash u, etc) vs top SLACS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the competitive preprof college clubs really matter? My kid is starting at penn and club applications and interviews sound very time consuming... during a time when kids are just settling in. I dont really understand the benefit of and high demand for preprof clubs. Do they provide a real advantage in the future job search or not? Wondering if they can/should avoid those clubs and focus time on studies, meeting people and finding some fun activities/orgs to join. Would appreciate any thoughts/experience on this topic...

DC at Ivy.

Pre professional clubs help with resume. There are jobs that just want the high stats kids who have taken the most rigorous math courses (like for quant jobs) but there are others (consulting) that want leadership, personality and ability to work with others. I personally have not heard of research opportunities leading to internships but YMMV.

[Anonymous]

Life is competitive. Getting into college, access to opportunities when you're there, access to opportunities when you leave. Find ways to help teach your children to cope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Life is competitive. Getting into college, access to opportunities when you're there, access to opportunities when you leave. Find ways to help teach your children to cope.

Or teach them how to avoid the hamster wheel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not aware of any competitive clubs at my DC’s slac. Definitely not the vibe there.

Doesn’t apply to all slacs though. I know CMC has a very competitive investment club.

yes to CMC--most clubs and opportunities are competitive and if you're not in by junior year you're shut out of really anything.

I just checked the consulting club and this may have changed, but it seems that a lot of sophomores are on the consulting club and there’s plenty freshman. They probably just prefer having students who have done intro macro and micro economics.

Boy this is stupid, my version of consulting club was getting a book and discussing a case with a friend to get better at analysis, in preparation for an interview with McKinsey or BCG. Taking economics helps, but they also liked science and engineering backgrounds. Why do you need a club for this?

They do career treks and case competitions with consulting firms. You don’t want to be represented by students who know nothing about economics.

Ok I’ll pass. It’s more productive to volunteer with a business or economics professor than be filtered out by a sophomore that literally has zero professional experience.

You're filtered out if you don't have any connections to get into the club. These are networking opportunities that can carry forward into internships and job offers.

How about this idea: you work for a professor on a research project over the summer and develop some skills besides coursework and do your best to do a great job. Next summer you ask for his help in finding an internship through his industry connections. The following summer you build your resume a little and go to job fairs talk to the few connections you’ve built so far, apply to as many jobs as you can and find an internship on your own. Again you do your best and transition into getting a job offer upon graduation.

It just sounds far more realistic than clubs. I literally know dozens of students that did this and I personally wrote letters of recommendations to some of them. I don’t know of anyone that found a job through a club.

I've seen students get job offers via internships and get access to internships through connections from these competitive clubs among other connections. It's one way to help make an opportunity for yourself and the reasons it's competitive to get into some of these clubs. Why do you think it's so competitive to get into these clubs? It's not for fun.

Competitive kids like to be competitive. For this crowd, the more "exclusive" something is, the more desireable it becomes. The value is in attaining one of the limited spots in the club, for it's own sake. It's yet another achievement. Anything else is a bonus. Because let's be real - what percentage of kids actually get jobs as a direct result of the club vs. other sources?

To me, this is equivalent to those who vie for bids from the "top" fraternities and sororities. Are they more likely to meet nicer friends or have more fun at these "top" houses/groups than at the others? Or is the bulk of the value in their perceived exclusivity?

[Anonymous]

I think people are missing the point of exclusive clubs at many of these schools - they are nothing less than an extension of the overall exclusivity, most of it based not on merit, based on who you know, what your parents do for a living, what other exclusive community you have already been part of, etc. Will some great kids get in simply because they work hard, are likable and would be an asset to the club? Absolutely. Will many slots be 'reserved' for frat brothers, private school buddies, someone who dated your best friend's sister, the kid whose dad is a partner at Goldman, and so on and so on? Of course, so maybe we should stop with both the surprise and the 'of course they should work hard to get into these clubs' attitude? You know who the hardest working kids at most of the elite schools tend to be? The kids on full FA, the FGLI kids, the ones who already had to scrape and go above and beyond just to get themselves the education to be prepared and then get themselves into these schools. Are some of them in these clubs? Sure, but many of the spots are 'reserved' before they ever submit their applications, in the way a large percentage of the seats in these schools are already earmarked. Should we talk about Princeton eating clubs or Harvard final clubs next?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people are missing the point of exclusive clubs at many of these schools - they are nothing less than an extension of the overall exclusivity, most of it based not on merit, based on who you know, what your parents do for a living, what other exclusive community you have already been part of, etc. Will some great kids get in simply because they work hard, are likable and would be an asset to the club? Absolutely. Will many slots be 'reserved' for frat brothers, private school buddies, someone who dated your best friend's sister, the kid whose dad is a partner at Goldman, and so on and so on? Of course, so maybe we should stop with both the surprise and the 'of course they should work hard to get into these clubs' attitude? You know who the hardest working kids at most of the elite schools tend to be? The kids on full FA, the FGLI kids, the ones who already had to scrape and go above and beyond just to get themselves the education to be prepared and then get themselves into these schools. Are some of them in these clubs? Sure, but many of the spots are 'reserved' before they ever submit their applications, in the way a large percentage of the seats in these schools are already earmarked. Should we talk about Princeton eating clubs or Harvard final clubs next?

The elite have connections to get access to all kinds of opportunities. Always has been that way and probably always will be. The kids that are admitted without the connections still have access to a lot of opportunities and also a front row seat to seeing some of the ugly truths about how the world works. Oh well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if the competitive preprof college clubs really matter? My kid is starting at penn and club applications and interviews sound very time consuming... during a time when kids are just settling in. I dont really understand the benefit of and high demand for preprof clubs. Do they provide a real advantage in the future job search or not? Wondering if they can/should avoid those clubs and focus time on studies, meeting people and finding some fun activities/orgs to join. Would appreciate any thoughts/experience on this topic...

DC at Ivy.

Pre professional clubs help with resume. There are jobs that just want the high stats kids who have taken the most rigorous math courses (like for quant jobs) but there are others (consulting) that want leadership, personality and ability to work with others. I personally have not heard of research opportunities leading to internships but YMMV.

Why not develop and demonstrate these traits via other clubs that actually DO something rather than a pre-professional business club that exists just to pad a resume . . . and is full of kids like your DC who are competing for the exact same jobs??

If you're a sheep among many other similar sheep, why in the world would a consulting firm choose you? What sets you apart from the rest of the pre-professional strivers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people are missing the point of exclusive clubs at many of these schools - they are nothing less than an extension of the overall exclusivity, most of it based not on merit, based on who you know, what your parents do for a living, what other exclusive community you have already been part of, etc. Will some great kids get in simply because they work hard, are likable and would be an asset to the club? Absolutely. Will many slots be 'reserved' for frat brothers, private school buddies, someone who dated your best friend's sister, the kid whose dad is a partner at Goldman, and so on and so on? Of course, so maybe we should stop with both the surprise and the 'of course they should work hard to get into these clubs' attitude? You know who the hardest working kids at most of the elite schools tend to be? The kids on full FA, the FGLI kids, the ones who already had to scrape and go above and beyond just to get themselves the education to be prepared and then get themselves into these schools. Are some of them in these clubs? Sure, but many of the spots are 'reserved' before they ever submit their applications, in the way a large percentage of the seats in these schools are already earmarked. Should we talk about Princeton eating clubs or Harvard final clubs next?

Them’s a lot of words to say you think club exclusivity should be banned, as in most top SLACs. Or are you saying that’s just the way it is so suck it up? Unclear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people are missing the point of exclusive clubs at many of these schools - they are nothing less than an extension of the overall exclusivity, most of it based not on merit, based on who you know, what your parents do for a living, what other exclusive community you have already been part of, etc. Will some great kids get in simply because they work hard, are likable and would be an asset to the club? Absolutely. Will many slots be 'reserved' for frat brothers, private school buddies, someone who dated your best friend's sister, the kid whose dad is a partner at Goldman, and so on and so on? Of course, so maybe we should stop with both the surprise and the 'of course they should work hard to get into these clubs' attitude? You know who the hardest working kids at most of the elite schools tend to be? The kids on full FA, the FGLI kids, the ones who already had to scrape and go above and beyond just to get themselves the education to be prepared and then get themselves into these schools. Are some of them in these clubs? Sure, but many of the spots are 'reserved' before they ever submit their applications, in the way a large percentage of the seats in these schools are already earmarked. Should we talk about Princeton eating clubs or Harvard final clubs next?

Them’s a lot of words to say you think club exclusivity should be banned, as in most top SLACs. Or are you saying that’s just the way it is so suck it up? Unclear.

Banning club exclusivity is not going to ban exclusivity. Reality is suck it up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people are missing the point of exclusive clubs at many of these schools - they are nothing less than an extension of the overall exclusivity, most of it based not on merit, based on who you know, what your parents do for a living, what other exclusive community you have already been part of, etc. Will some great kids get in simply because they work hard, are likable and would be an asset to the club? Absolutely. Will many slots be 'reserved' for frat brothers, private school buddies, someone who dated your best friend's sister, the kid whose dad is a partner at Goldman, and so on and so on? Of course, so maybe we should stop with both the surprise and the 'of course they should work hard to get into these clubs' attitude? You know who the hardest working kids at most of the elite schools tend to be? The kids on full FA, the FGLI kids, the ones who already had to scrape and go above and beyond just to get themselves the education to be prepared and then get themselves into these schools. Are some of them in these clubs? Sure, but many of the spots are 'reserved' before they ever submit their applications, in the way a large percentage of the seats in these schools are already earmarked. Should we talk about Princeton eating clubs or Harvard final clubs next?

Why would kids with elite connections even bother with these pre-professional clubs? They have direct access these jobs via their families and family friends. It's the strivers who need to hustle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people are missing the point of exclusive clubs at many of these schools - they are nothing less than an extension of the overall exclusivity, most of it based not on merit, based on who you know, what your parents do for a living, what other exclusive community you have already been part of, etc. Will some great kids get in simply because they work hard, are likable and would be an asset to the club? Absolutely. Will many slots be 'reserved' for frat brothers, private school buddies, someone who dated your best friend's sister, the kid whose dad is a partner at Goldman, and so on and so on? Of course, so maybe we should stop with both the surprise and the 'of course they should work hard to get into these clubs' attitude? You know who the hardest working kids at most of the elite schools tend to be? The kids on full FA, the FGLI kids, the ones who already had to scrape and go above and beyond just to get themselves the education to be prepared and then get themselves into these schools. Are some of them in these clubs? Sure, but many of the spots are 'reserved' before they ever submit their applications, in the way a large percentage of the seats in these schools are already earmarked. Should we talk about Princeton eating clubs or Harvard final clubs next?

Why would kids with elite connections even bother with these pre-professional clubs? They have direct access these jobs via their families and family friends. It's the strivers who need to hustle.

Correct. Kids with elite connections can do whatever the heck they want in college. They are set.