Interesting new study about the 4 types of autism

[Anonymous]

Fifth type in my opinion. PDA along with Level 1 ASD, ADHD, and anxiety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not new categories of autism. They looked at non-core features of autism as currently diagnosed and grouped them. In the same way you wouldn’t say there are “types of depression” based on non-core criteria. Like, you could take all the people diagnosed with depression and group them based on IQ, extroversion/introversion, height, weight, etc etc. Unless you have a theory about why these grouping criteria are causal or relate to the *core symptoms* of the dx, this is a pretty useless activity.

What’s significant here is that they found different genetic markers associated with the different clinical groupings. I agree that you can group things however and it doesn’t necessarily mean much but when you find a different genetic markers associated with the different groups that suggests there’s a different etiology and maybe different treatments.

Genetic markers for what though? if the groups were based on height or eye color then there could be common genetic markers but that wouldn’t say anything useful about the nosology of autism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not new categories of autism. They looked at non-core features of autism as currently diagnosed and grouped them. In the same way you wouldn’t say there are “types of depression” based on non-core criteria. Like, you could take all the people diagnosed with depression and group them based on IQ, extroversion/introversion, height, weight, etc etc. Unless you have a theory about why these grouping criteria are causal or relate to the *core symptoms* of the dx, this is a pretty useless activity.

didn’t the study find that these different groups correlated with different genetic markers?

This is the most important part of the study, IMO. We could argue about the categories (and the names of the categories) and maybe there should be 1 or 2 more categories. But this is the most interesting part of it.

I don’t find anything at all interesting about it. billions of dollars have been wasted trying to find genetic markers of autism and other DSM conditions. Unless your goal is to create a prenatal test to abort babies with supposed autism genes, I don’t see anything fruitful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I skimmed through the Nature study very quickly. It divided ASD into 4 groups which were basically Mild, Severe and two in the middle. I'll read it more thoroughly later on.

Which one is caused by 81 shot vaccine regimen plus multiple mRNA shots?

None. According to many, many studies. But not getting vaccines causes death, so there's that.

I only read the shorthand article, but they made it clear that the primary cause is genetic, with many of the parents exhibiting the same traits.

I have a child with AuADHD. After the diagnosis, I looked around my family and found undiagnosed autism on one side and undiagnosed ADHD (rampant) on the other side. I have met other moms of autistics, and many of them clearly have ADHD.

How do you know these mom’s have ADHD? For all you know they might not text you back or tell you a story about misplacing car keys because they are burnt out/exhausted. For all you know this could be the case and they could have OCD, which also has a lot of overlap with autism. Or they could have a ton of sub clinical symptoms and fall into the broad autism phenotype (BAP) category.

How do I know? Because I was friends with them and spent a lot of time talking to them at activities our kids attended together. It was obvious they had ADHD. Your example of forgetting things tells me everything I need to know about your experience with ADHD and autism. Why would I ever think not texting someone back or misplacing car keys is a sign of ADHD? lol. More like menopause.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fifth type in my opinion. PDA along with Level 1 ASD, ADHD, and anxiety.

This is my kid. It’s such a hard type to parent. I’m at a loss regarding what to do. Any thoughts?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not new categories of autism. They looked at non-core features of autism as currently diagnosed and grouped them. In the same way you wouldn’t say there are “types of depression” based on non-core criteria. Like, you could take all the people diagnosed with depression and group them based on IQ, extroversion/introversion, height, weight, etc etc. Unless you have a theory about why these grouping criteria are causal or relate to the *core symptoms* of the dx, this is a pretty useless activity.

didn’t the study find that these different groups correlated with different genetic markers?

This is the most important part of the study, IMO. We could argue about the categories (and the names of the categories) and maybe there should be 1 or 2 more categories. But this is the most interesting part of it.

I don’t find anything at all interesting about it. billions of dollars have been wasted trying to find genetic markers of autism and other DSM conditions. Unless your goal is to create a prenatal test to abort babies with supposed autism genes, I don’t see anything fruitful.

Genome editing to reverse behaviors associated with autism. Same goal as the successful fecal transplant studies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do I still feel like my kid doesn't fit a category? Which one is PDA autism?

NP. I think that PDA is separate or a specific combination of ADHD and ASD (and anxiety) rather than a subset of ASD as some call it now. That's my personal opinion based upon my DC. In this study, I think it would be category 5. Or maybe the first one.

A lot of kids also have some coordination disorder. I think this study is missing some of the key features of autism. I wish they would just diagnose by skill and severity.

Yes! Muscle tone and coordination differences are so prevalent, and this could help with differential dx.

Yes. A recent study found 60% of girls with an ASD dx had motor challenges and something like every month delay in walking increased the likelihood of a dx. There is a link between social and communication and motor abilities, which is acknowledged broadly too.

[Anonymous]

My opinion is this was yet another colossal waste of research money. It fails to categorize appropriately. For example, I have one autistic child who's an extremely rigid thinker. It effects every area of his life. Another is much more flexible thinker but stems, has echolalia, talks to loud, is socially inappropriate, etc.

They seem to have just used the criteria that's easiest for them to observe and not the criteria that needs treatment or effects their lives

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not new categories of autism. They looked at non-core features of autism as currently diagnosed and grouped them. In the same way you wouldn’t say there are “types of depression” based on non-core criteria. Like, you could take all the people diagnosed with depression and group them based on IQ, extroversion/introversion, height, weight, etc etc. Unless you have a theory about why these grouping criteria are causal or relate to the *core symptoms* of the dx, this is a pretty useless activity.

didn’t the study find that these different groups correlated with different genetic markers?

This is the most important part of the study, IMO. We could argue about the categories (and the names of the categories) and maybe there should be 1 or 2 more categories. But this is the most interesting part of it.

I don’t find anything at all interesting about it. billions of dollars have been wasted trying to find genetic markers of autism and other DSM conditions. Unless your goal is to create a prenatal test to abort babies with supposed autism genes, I don’t see anything fruitful.

Genome editing to reverse behaviors associated with autism. Same goal as the successful fecal transplant studies.

Yeah that is not going to happen. fecal transplants are something totally different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My opinion is this was yet another colossal waste of research money. It fails to categorize appropriately. For example, I have one autistic child who's an extremely rigid thinker. It effects every area of his life. Another is much more flexible thinker but stems, has echolalia, talks to loud, is socially inappropriate, etc.

They seem to have just used the criteria that's easiest for them to observe and not the criteria that needs treatment or effects their lives

+100000. Glad to see I am not the only one who sees it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not new categories of autism. They looked at non-core features of autism as currently diagnosed and grouped them. In the same way you wouldn’t say there are “types of depression” based on non-core criteria. Like, you could take all the people diagnosed with depression and group them based on IQ, extroversion/introversion, height, weight, etc etc. Unless you have a theory about why these grouping criteria are causal or relate to the *core symptoms* of the dx, this is a pretty useless activity.

didn’t the study find that these different groups correlated with different genetic markers?

This is the most important part of the study, IMO. We could argue about the categories (and the names of the categories) and maybe there should be 1 or 2 more categories. But this is the most interesting part of it.

I don’t find anything at all interesting about it. billions of dollars have been wasted trying to find genetic markers of autism and other DSM conditions. Unless your goal is to create a prenatal test to abort babies with supposed autism genes, I don’t see anything fruitful.

Genome editing to reverse behaviors associated with autism. Same goal as the successful fecal transplant studies.

Yeah that is not going to happen. fecal transplants are something totally different.

Microbiome is a very new field. I wouldn't be too sure about that.

[Anonymous]

This is pure science research. It doesn't have a direct application. But without pure science research that may feel like a "colossal waste of money," you can't develop therapies that aren't a "colossal waste of money"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is pure science research. It doesn't have a direct application. But without pure science research that may feel like a "colossal waste of money," you can't develop therapies that aren't a "colossal waste of money"

DP. This is def true but there seems to be very little appetite to develop therapies. I have a friend whose family basically funds all the research for a super rare but devastating disease and they’ve developed so many new treatments in part because they are more profitable because they fall under the orphanage drug act.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is pure science research. It doesn't have a direct application. But without pure science research that may feel like a "colossal waste of money," you can't develop therapies that aren't a "colossal waste of money"

LoL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fifth type in my opinion. PDA along with Level 1 ASD, ADHD, and anxiety.

This is my kid. It’s such a hard type to parent. I’m at a loss regarding what to do. Any thoughts?

I wish it were recognized because it's so hard to get providers to understand our children. When someone tells me their child is PDA, I just get it. They don't have to tell me Level 1 ASD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, gifted, NT passing but needs lots of support, etc. It would be so much easier to communicate with providers, schools, and other parents if it had the recognition it deserves. We're still walking the tight rope of lower demands, offering choices, using declarative language but also imposing logical consequences for behavior that is truly destructive or hurtful. I can appreciate the perspective of PDA podcasters, but I am really frustrated by the lack of guidance about how to impose consequences that are fair, consistent, and don't trigger the PDA response. You can't just not discipline your child. I'm very interested to see the outcome of this low-demand parenting as most of these podcasters have minor children.