Interesting new study about the 4 types of autism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not new categories of autism. They looked at non-core features of autism as currently diagnosed and grouped them. In the same way you wouldn’t say there are “types of depression” based on non-core criteria. Like, you could take all the people diagnosed with depression and group them based on IQ, extroversion/introversion, height, weight, etc etc. Unless you have a theory about why these grouping criteria are causal or relate to the *core symptoms* of the dx, this is a pretty useless activity.

didn’t the study find that these different groups correlated with different genetic markers?

This is the most important part of the study, IMO. We could argue about the categories (and the names of the categories) and maybe there should be 1 or 2 more categories. But this is the most interesting part of it.

I don’t find anything at all interesting about it. billions of dollars have been wasted trying to find genetic markers of autism and other DSM conditions. Unless your goal is to create a prenatal test to abort babies with supposed autism genes, I don’t see anything fruitful.

Genome editing to reverse behaviors associated with autism. Same goal as the successful fecal transplant studies.

Yeah that is not going to happen. fecal transplants are something totally different.

Different mechanisms but same goal. Genome therapy is here, read about it.

[Anonymous]

I’m pp with a later diagnosed girl. I also believe there need to be more studies on fertility treatment and pregnancy complications.

My IVF premie had a rough ride during pregnancy. I had major complications. I was on a lot of experimental medications to make it through. Even then it was touch and go from start to early finish.

Years later we went to Children’s for testing and learned this was the cause of my kid’s endocrine and neurological issues. She ALSO has AuDHD, anxiety, and dyspraxia but is cognitively “smart” and verbal.

Before finding an expert, anytime I brought up potential issues from birth to a regular pediatrician they would dismiss it.

Hard to ignore the correlation…wonder if there are some presentations (category 5) that are related to in utero issues…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m pp with a later diagnosed girl. I also believe there need to be more studies on fertility treatment and pregnancy complications.

My IVF premie had a rough ride during pregnancy. I had major complications. I was on a lot of experimental medications to make it through. Even then it was touch and go from start to early finish.

Years later we went to Children’s for testing and learned this was the cause of my kid’s endocrine and neurological issues. She ALSO has AuDHD, anxiety, and dyspraxia but is cognitively “smart” and verbal.

Before finding an expert, anytime I brought up potential issues from birth to a regular pediatrician they would dismiss it.

Hard to ignore the correlation…wonder if there are some presentations (category 5) that are related to in utero issues…

I think it's possible that what we know of/think of as autism is really just a collection of symptoms with very different causes, depending on the person. Like the stomach ache analogy so one used in this thread.

[Anonymous]

[img]

Anonymous wrote:I’m pp with a later diagnosed girl. I also believe there need to be more studies on fertility treatment and pregnancy complications.

My IVF premie had a rough ride during pregnancy. I had major complications. I was on a lot of experimental medications to make it through. Even then it was touch and go from start to early finish.

Years later we went to Children’s for testing and learned this was the cause of my kid’s endocrine and neurological issues. She ALSO has AuDHD, anxiety, and dyspraxia but is cognitively “smart” and verbal.

Before finding an expert, anytime I brought up potential issues from birth to a regular pediatrician they would dismiss it.

Hard to ignore the correlation…wonder if there are some presentations (category 5) that are related to in utero issues…

Not to be contrary, but I had zero pregnancy issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They need to bring back onset before age 3, that would solve everything.

That was the dividing line between "Asperger's" and "classic" (or Kanner) autism, wasn't it? But they did away with those categories.

My kid either the first category or the third - generally developmentally on track with a history of severe anxiety but doing well now overall with social skills and executive functioning supports outside of school and a 504 plan in school. Still young so may be hard to see all the ways she is impacted but can be considered subtle right now (though it is obvious to me).

Despite it being "subtle" no question she has been autistic since infancy. The severe anxiety became apparent at age 2.

This is also true for my kid but it wasn't diagnosed early, specifically because it didn't present with the severe communication deficits (she is hyper-verbal) or developmental delays. But she didn't potty train until age 4, she had selective mutism in PK, and she has extreme anxiety that gets read as shyness and awkwardness by teachers and others.

I think it's obvious that "mild" forms of autism are genetic and begin presenting very early on, but because these kids tend to walk and talk on time and their autistic behaviors may not be as extreme, they are less likely to be identified until later when school and social demands become more complex and it's more clear that these kids have neurodivergence.

It's also common for the co-occurring disorders to be diagnosed first -- anxiety, OCD, ADHD. I feel like I see this with girls often, far more often than with boys.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not new categories of autism. They looked at non-core features of autism as currently diagnosed and grouped them. In the same way you wouldn’t say there are “types of depression” based on non-core criteria. Like, you could take all the people diagnosed with depression and group them based on IQ, extroversion/introversion, height, weight, etc etc. Unless you have a theory about why these grouping criteria are causal or relate to the *core symptoms* of the dx, this is a pretty useless activity.

didn’t the study find that these different groups correlated with different genetic markers?

This is the most important part of the study, IMO. We could argue about the categories (and the names of the categories) and maybe there should be 1 or 2 more categories. But this is the most interesting part of it.

I don’t find anything at all interesting about it. billions of dollars have been wasted trying to find genetic markers of autism and other DSM conditions. Unless your goal is to create a prenatal test to abort babies with supposed autism genes, I don’t see anything fruitful.

Genome editing to reverse behaviors associated with autism. Same goal as the successful fecal transplant studies.

Yeah that is not going to happen. fecal transplants are something totally different.

Microbiome is a very new field. I wouldn't be too sure about that.

The autism study has zero to do with “‘microbiome”. Are you just randomly throwing around buzz words?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is pure science research. It doesn't have a direct application. But without pure science research that may feel like a "colossal waste of money," you can't develop therapies that aren't a "colossal waste of money"

It’s not “pure science.” It’s a poorly designed study leading to no benefit to actual people much less any therapies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fifth type in my opinion. PDA along with Level 1 ASD, ADHD, and anxiety.

This is my kid. It’s such a hard type to parent. I’m at a loss regarding what to do. Any thoughts?

I wish it were recognized because it's so hard to get providers to understand our children. When someone tells me their child is PDA, I just get it. They don't have to tell me Level 1 ASD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, gifted, NT passing but needs lots of support, etc. It would be so much easier to communicate with providers, schools, and other parents if it had the recognition it deserves. We're still walking the tight rope of lower demands, offering choices, using declarative language but also imposing logical consequences for behavior that is truly destructive or hurtful. I can appreciate the perspective of PDA podcasters, but I am really frustrated by the lack of guidance about how to impose consequences that are fair, consistent, and don't trigger the PDA response. You can't just not discipline your child. I'm very interested to see the outcome of this low-demand parenting as most of these podcasters have minor children.

I don’t think you should parent via podcast. clinicians are very well versed in oppositional behavior- it’s not like it’s some sudden unknown thing uncovered by podcasters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not new categories of autism. They looked at non-core features of autism as currently diagnosed and grouped them. In the same way you wouldn’t say there are “types of depression” based on non-core criteria. Like, you could take all the people diagnosed with depression and group them based on IQ, extroversion/introversion, height, weight, etc etc. Unless you have a theory about why these grouping criteria are causal or relate to the *core symptoms* of the dx, this is a pretty useless activity.

didn’t the study find that these different groups correlated with different genetic markers?

This is the most important part of the study, IMO. We could argue about the categories (and the names of the categories) and maybe there should be 1 or 2 more categories. But this is the most interesting part of it.

I don’t find anything at all interesting about it. billions of dollars have been wasted trying to find genetic markers of autism and other DSM conditions. Unless your goal is to create a prenatal test to abort babies with supposed autism genes, I don’t see anything fruitful.

Genome editing to reverse behaviors associated with autism. Same goal as the successful fecal transplant studies.

Yeah that is not going to happen. fecal transplants are something totally different.

Different mechanisms but same goal. Genome therapy is here, read about it.

Plenty of people are flying out of fhe country to get stem cell therapy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are not new categories of autism. They looked at non-core features of autism as currently diagnosed and grouped them. In the same way you wouldn’t say there are “types of depression” based on non-core criteria. Like, you could take all the people diagnosed with depression and group them based on IQ, extroversion/introversion, height, weight, etc etc. Unless you have a theory about why these grouping criteria are causal or relate to the *core symptoms* of the dx, this is a pretty useless activity.

didn’t the study find that these different groups correlated with different genetic markers?

This is the most important part of the study, IMO. We could argue about the categories (and the names of the categories) and maybe there should be 1 or 2 more categories. But this is the most interesting part of it.

I don’t find anything at all interesting about it. billions of dollars have been wasted trying to find genetic markers of autism and other DSM conditions. Unless your goal is to create a prenatal test to abort babies with supposed autism genes, I don’t see anything fruitful.

Genome editing to reverse behaviors associated with autism. Same goal as the successful fecal transplant studies.

Yeah that is not going to happen. fecal transplants are something totally different.

Different mechanisms but same goal. Genome therapy is here, read about it.

Plenty of people are flying out of fhe country to get stem cell therapy

Oh ffs. people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m pp with a later diagnosed girl. I also believe there need to be more studies on fertility treatment and pregnancy complications.

My IVF premie had a rough ride during pregnancy. I had major complications. I was on a lot of experimental medications to make it through. Even then it was touch and go from start to early finish.

Years later we went to Children’s for testing and learned this was the cause of my kid’s endocrine and neurological issues. She ALSO has AuDHD, anxiety, and dyspraxia but is cognitively “smart” and verbal.

Before finding an expert, anytime I brought up potential issues from birth to a regular pediatrician they would dismiss it.

Hard to ignore the correlation…wonder if there are some presentations (category 5) that are related to in utero issues…

I think it's possible that what we know of/think of as autism is really just a collection of symptoms with very different causes, depending on the person. Like the stomach ache analogy so one used in this thread.

Completely agree with this.
And there are alot more than 4 groups of symptoms/causes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fifth type in my opinion. PDA along with Level 1 ASD, ADHD, and anxiety.

This is my kid. It’s such a hard type to parent. I’m at a loss regarding what to do. Any thoughts?

I wish it were recognized because it's so hard to get providers to understand our children. When someone tells me their child is PDA, I just get it. They don't have to tell me Level 1 ASD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, gifted, NT passing but needs lots of support, etc. It would be so much easier to communicate with providers, schools, and other parents if it had the recognition it deserves. We're still walking the tight rope of lower demands, offering choices, using declarative language but also imposing logical consequences for behavior that is truly destructive or hurtful. I can appreciate the perspective of PDA podcasters, but I am really frustrated by the lack of guidance about how to impose consequences that are fair, consistent, and don't trigger the PDA response. You can't just not discipline your child. I'm very interested to see the outcome of this low-demand parenting as most of these podcasters have minor children.

One of my asd kids is pda. I gave him zero consequences except when his actions effected his sibling. Hes doing great- in college, in a stable relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fifth type in my opinion. PDA along with Level 1 ASD, ADHD, and anxiety.

This is my kid. It’s such a hard type to parent. I’m at a loss regarding what to do. Any thoughts?

I wish it were recognized because it's so hard to get providers to understand our children. When someone tells me their child is PDA, I just get it. They don't have to tell me Level 1 ASD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, gifted, NT passing but needs lots of support, etc. It would be so much easier to communicate with providers, schools, and other parents if it had the recognition it deserves. We're still walking the tight rope of lower demands, offering choices, using declarative language but also imposing logical consequences for behavior that is truly destructive or hurtful. I can appreciate the perspective of PDA podcasters, but I am really frustrated by the lack of guidance about how to impose consequences that are fair, consistent, and don't trigger the PDA response. You can't just not discipline your child. I'm very interested to see the outcome of this low-demand parenting as most of these podcasters have minor children.

One of my asd kids is pda. I gave him zero consequences except when his actions effected his sibling. Hes doing great- in college, in a stable relationship.

How did that work? like he didn’t take out the trash and you just said ok and did it yourself? He swore or hit you and you let it go? He watched TV instead of homework?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fifth type in my opinion. PDA along with Level 1 ASD, ADHD, and anxiety.

This is my kid. It’s such a hard type to parent. I’m at a loss regarding what to do. Any thoughts?

I wish it were recognized because it's so hard to get providers to understand our children. When someone tells me their child is PDA, I just get it. They don't have to tell me Level 1 ASD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, gifted, NT passing but needs lots of support, etc. It would be so much easier to communicate with providers, schools, and other parents if it had the recognition it deserves. We're still walking the tight rope of lower demands, offering choices, using declarative language but also imposing logical consequences for behavior that is truly destructive or hurtful. I can appreciate the perspective of PDA podcasters, but I am really frustrated by the lack of guidance about how to impose consequences that are fair, consistent, and don't trigger the PDA response. You can't just not discipline your child. I'm very interested to see the outcome of this low-demand parenting as most of these podcasters have minor children.

I don’t think you should parent via podcast. clinicians are very well versed in oppositional behavior- it’s not like it’s some sudden unknown thing uncovered by podcasters.

I don’t parent from podcasts, but I do pick up tricks here and there. Providers here don’t recognize PDA. It’s a drive for autonomy that overrides even basic survival instincts. It stems from severe anxiety and a nervous system disorder. Rewards and tokens make it worse, not better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fifth type in my opinion. PDA along with Level 1 ASD, ADHD, and anxiety.

This is my kid. It’s such a hard type to parent. I’m at a loss regarding what to do. Any thoughts?

I wish it were recognized because it's so hard to get providers to understand our children. When someone tells me their child is PDA, I just get it. They don't have to tell me Level 1 ASD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, gifted, NT passing but needs lots of support, etc. It would be so much easier to communicate with providers, schools, and other parents if it had the recognition it deserves. We're still walking the tight rope of lower demands, offering choices, using declarative language but also imposing logical consequences for behavior that is truly destructive or hurtful. I can appreciate the perspective of PDA podcasters, but I am really frustrated by the lack of guidance about how to impose consequences that are fair, consistent, and don't trigger the PDA response. You can't just not discipline your child. I'm very interested to see the outcome of this low-demand parenting as most of these podcasters have minor children.

One of my asd kids is pda. I gave him zero consequences except when his actions effected his sibling. Hes doing great- in college, in a stable relationship.

How did that work? like he didn’t take out the trash and you just said ok and did it yourself? He swore or hit you and you let it go? He watched TV instead of homework?

+1 Curious too