Interesting new study about the 4 types of autism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Show of hands as we are talking about the biology behind autism- how many here have sought out a FRAT test for their autistic family members?

I am totally opposed to genetic testing that doesn’t have any benefit. so no, of course not.

NP. My kids have been diagnosed with a genetic syndrome that is associated with autism and they also have been diagnosed with autism. Treating the genetic syndrome with prescription supplements and medication has really improved their autism. There are no targeted gene therapies yet but they are working on it and it will happen soon, in the next couple years or decades. Then other children like mine may be cured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read about the four sub-types in the summary, it really brings to mind the disorder formerly known as “Aspberger’s,” and then ASD level 1–2-3 in that order. I would like to see the “social and behavioral challenges” group that has at least average IQ, reaches developmental milestones, and struggles with anxiety, OCD, ADHD etc. as a completely separate diagnosis from ASD. I get that they are the largest group in terms of size, but their challenges are soooo much different from kids who use communication devices, have multiple learning disabilities, low IQ, can’t be in regular school classes, and so on. And it’s diluting care and resources from those who most need it. I also think ASD is being over-diagnosed in older kids, teens, young adults, and even adults, because it’s somehow easier to accept an autism diagnosis vs. some combination of OCD-anxiety-depression-ADHD giving you a somewhat “difficult” personality.

The kids who need care, need care. Period. No one is more or less deserving of healthcare - regardless of why they need it.

I think it’s interesting to take a cost benefit analysis stance and say that of course all kids deserve care but there’s a subgroup of kids who are “mildly” affected who would definitely benefit from early and skilled behavioral and social skills support and intervention. And that in the long run that this is money well spent. Because the ceiling for improvement is higher than foe someone who is more severely affected.

I’m not sure why anyone would argue against getting the taxpayer funded benefits that come from an early autism diagnosis.

I certainly wish my ADHD son, who may also be on the spectrum, had received such a diagnosis early on. I wish I had pursued one.

But all assumed that his issues were behavioral because in short he was very verbal, bright, outgoing and could make eye contact. When teachers provided assessments for his evaluation he scored as low as you can score on the is this autism scale.

He was often disciplined for being too loud in class, speaking out of turn, getting in to other people’s personal space, and on and on, essentially being a mini bulldozer who lacked the ability to pick up social cues.

It’s really broken him down over time.

In hindsight he would have really benefited from the wrap around services that an early autism diagnosis and early intervention would have made him eligible for.

lol. I have a kid like that. What “early intervention and wrap around services” do you think exist? They really don’t. there is no magic intervention for high functioning kids. And even though my kid was dx’d at 6 and got a fair amount of services, his needs are still totally different (greater and lesser in different respects) than in early elementary school. Meanwhile kids with severe autism and their families will need actual intensive care and services their whole lives.

DP I can only speak for our family and a limited perspective of having a younger child but we have absolutely found that OT and social skills classes starting at age 4 have really helped. Saw a ton of progress with that combo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Show of hands as we are talking about the biology behind autism- how many here have sought out a FRAT test for their autistic family members?

I am totally opposed to genetic testing that doesn’t have any benefit. so no, of course not.

NP. My kids have been diagnosed with a genetic syndrome that is associated with autism and they also have been diagnosed with autism. Treating the genetic syndrome with prescription supplements and medication has really improved their autism. There are no targeted gene therapies yet but they are working on it and it will happen soon, in the next couple years or decades. Then other children like mine may be cured.

^ And yes, I am aware that doesn't apply to the vast majority of people with ASD but it is relevant to some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Show of hands as we are talking about the biology behind autism- how many here have sought out a FRAT test for their autistic family members?

I am totally opposed to genetic testing that doesn’t have any benefit. so no, of course not.

NP. My kids have been diagnosed with a genetic syndrome that is associated with autism and they also have been diagnosed with autism. Treating the genetic syndrome with prescription supplements and medication has really improved their autism. There are no targeted gene therapies yet but they are working on it and it will happen soon, in the next couple years or decades. Then other children like mine may be cured.

Ok - but that is likely a completely different scenario than most people here, and possibly better conceptualized as a different diagnosis. Writ large there is absolutely zero reason to believe that there will be gene therapies for autism in the next couple of decades let alone years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read about the four sub-types in the summary, it really brings to mind the disorder formerly known as “Aspberger’s,” and then ASD level 1–2-3 in that order. I would like to see the “social and behavioral challenges” group that has at least average IQ, reaches developmental milestones, and struggles with anxiety, OCD, ADHD etc. as a completely separate diagnosis from ASD. I get that they are the largest group in terms of size, but their challenges are soooo much different from kids who use communication devices, have multiple learning disabilities, low IQ, can’t be in regular school classes, and so on. And it’s diluting care and resources from those who most need it. I also think ASD is being over-diagnosed in older kids, teens, young adults, and even adults, because it’s somehow easier to accept an autism diagnosis vs. some combination of OCD-anxiety-depression-ADHD giving you a somewhat “difficult” personality.

The kids who need care, need care. Period. No one is more or less deserving of healthcare - regardless of why they need it.

I think it’s interesting to take a cost benefit analysis stance and say that of course all kids deserve care but there’s a subgroup of kids who are “mildly” affected who would definitely benefit from early and skilled behavioral and social skills support and intervention. And that in the long run that this is money well spent. Because the ceiling for improvement is higher than foe someone who is more severely affected.

I’m not sure why anyone would argue against getting the taxpayer funded benefits that come from an early autism diagnosis.

I certainly wish my ADHD son, who may also be on the spectrum, had received such a diagnosis early on. I wish I had pursued one.

But all assumed that his issues were behavioral because in short he was very verbal, bright, outgoing and could make eye contact. When teachers provided assessments for his evaluation he scored as low as you can score on the is this autism scale.

He was often disciplined for being too loud in class, speaking out of turn, getting in to other people’s personal space, and on and on, essentially being a mini bulldozer who lacked the ability to pick up social cues.

It’s really broken him down over time.

In hindsight he would have really benefited from the wrap around services that an early autism diagnosis and early intervention would have made him eligible for.

lol. I have a kid like that. What “early intervention and wrap around services” do you think exist? They really don’t. there is no magic intervention for high functioning kids. And even though my kid was dx’d at 6 and got a fair amount of services, his needs are still totally different (greater and lesser in different respects) than in early elementary school. Meanwhile kids with severe autism and their families will need actual intensive care and services their whole lives.

DP I can only speak for our family and a limited perspective of having a younger child but we have absolutely found that OT and social skills classes starting at age 4 have really helped. Saw a ton of progress with that combo.

But that doesn’t require an autism diagnosis. My kid started OT and social interventions years before a diagnosis. But sure if you ignore your kid’s obvious motor delays for 10 years then that may be problematic. As for social skills I truly am a non-believer in didactic adult led social skills instruction for higher functioning kids. Certainly social skills classes once a week at 4 have little bearing on social skills at 13.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I read about the four sub-types in the summary, it really brings to mind the disorder formerly known as “Aspberger’s,” and then ASD level 1–2-3 in that order. I would like to see the “social and behavioral challenges” group that has at least average IQ, reaches developmental milestones, and struggles with anxiety, OCD, ADHD etc. as a completely separate diagnosis from ASD. I get that they are the largest group in terms of size, but their challenges are soooo much different from kids who use communication devices, have multiple learning disabilities, low IQ, can’t be in regular school classes, and so on. And it’s diluting care and resources from those who most need it. I also think ASD is being over-diagnosed in older kids, teens, young adults, and even adults, because it’s somehow easier to accept an autism diagnosis vs. some combination of OCD-anxiety-depression-ADHD giving you a somewhat “difficult” personality.

The kids who need care, need care. Period. No one is more or less deserving of healthcare - regardless of why they need it.

I think it’s interesting to take a cost benefit analysis stance and say that of course all kids deserve care but there’s a subgroup of kids who are “mildly” affected who would definitely benefit from early and skilled behavioral and social skills support and intervention. And that in the long run that this is money well spent. Because the ceiling for improvement is higher than foe someone who is more severely affected.

I’m not sure why anyone would argue against getting the taxpayer funded benefits that come from an early autism diagnosis.

I certainly wish my ADHD son, who may also be on the spectrum, had received such a diagnosis early on. I wish I had pursued one.

But all assumed that his issues were behavioral because in short he was very verbal, bright, outgoing and could make eye contact. When teachers provided assessments for his evaluation he scored as low as you can score on the is this autism scale.

He was often disciplined for being too loud in class, speaking out of turn, getting in to other people’s personal space, and on and on, essentially being a mini bulldozer who lacked the ability to pick up social cues.

It’s really broken him down over time.

In hindsight he would have really benefited from the wrap around services that an early autism diagnosis and early intervention would have made him eligible for.

lol. I have a kid like that. What “early intervention and wrap around services” do you think exist? They really don’t. there is no magic intervention for high functioning kids. And even though my kid was dx’d at 6 and got a fair amount of services, his needs are still totally different (greater and lesser in different respects) than in early elementary school. Meanwhile kids with severe autism and their families will need actual intensive care and services their whole lives.

DP I can only speak for our family and a limited perspective of having a younger child but we have absolutely found that OT and social skills classes starting at age 4 have really helped. Saw a ton of progress with that combo.

But that doesn’t require an autism diagnosis. My kid started OT and social interventions years before a diagnosis. But sure if you ignore your kid’s obvious motor delays for 10 years then that may be problematic. As for social skills I truly am a non-believer in didactic adult led social skills instruction for higher functioning kids. Certainly social skills classes once a week at 4 have little bearing on social skills at 13.

You're right, we started OT and social skills before the diagnosis, but would have stopped after 6 months because DC was doing so well. Based on the diagnosis we continued them. And while we recognize DC will likely need social skills support throughout the school years at least, I don't see how you would argue that learning something at a young age has no bearing on their skills in future years. But we can agree to disagree. I'm not going to change our approach because random DCUM poster who has never met my child has a bizarre reaction against it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Full study here:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-025-02224-z

Shorthand here:
https://engineering.princeton.edu/news/2025/07/09/major-autism-study-uncovers-biologically-distinct-subtypes-paving-way-precision-diagnosis-and-care

"The study defines four subtypes of autism —

Social and Behavioral Challenges,

Mixed ASD with Developmental Delay,

Moderate Challenges,

Broadly Affected.

This is 100% nothingburger, it's the same as the current Level 1,2,3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Show of hands as we are talking about the biology behind autism- how many here have sought out a FRAT test for their autistic family members?

I am totally opposed to genetic testing that doesn’t have any benefit. so no, of course not.

NP. My kids have been diagnosed with a genetic syndrome that is associated with autism and they also have been diagnosed with autism. Treating the genetic syndrome with prescription supplements and medication has really improved their autism. There are no targeted gene therapies yet but they are working on it and it will happen soon, in the next couple years or decades. Then other children like mine may be cured.

Ok - but that is likely a completely different scenario than most people here, and possibly better conceptualized as a different diagnosis. Writ large there is absolutely zero reason to believe that there will be gene therapies for autism in the next couple of decades let alone years.

Yeah, so let's just not research genetic links to autism. Must be a waste of time and also if we don't research them you'll be proven correct!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Full study here:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41588-025-02224-z

Shorthand here:
https://engineering.princeton.edu/news/2025/07/09/major-autism-study-uncovers-biologically-distinct-subtypes-paving-way-precision-diagnosis-and-care

"The study defines four subtypes of autism —

Social and Behavioral Challenges,

Mixed ASD with Developmental Delay,

Moderate Challenges,

Broadly Affected.

This is 100% nothingburger, it's the same as the current Level 1,2,3.

Not really

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is pure science research. It doesn't have a direct application. But without pure science research that may feel like a "colossal waste of money," you can't develop therapies that aren't a "colossal waste of money"

It’s not “pure science.” It’s a poorly designed study leading to no benefit to actual people much less any therapies.

Pure science doesn't typically lead to "benefit to actual people" - it just advances our collective understanding.

Nothing about this advances understanding.

I really disagree with this. Did you read the study?

Dp here. I think a more accurate way to phrase it would be:
Nothing about this advances pur understanding of autism, for those of us who have managed to read anything about autism in the past 8 years or so.
It also looks very much like they copied the work of a woman who has been independently categorizing autism genes. The difference being the academics had access to the spark data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fifth type in my opinion. PDA along with Level 1 ASD, ADHD, and anxiety.

This is my kid. It’s such a hard type to parent. I’m at a loss regarding what to do. Any thoughts?

I wish it were recognized because it's so hard to get providers to understand our children. When someone tells me their child is PDA, I just get it. They don't have to tell me Level 1 ASD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, gifted, NT passing but needs lots of support, etc. It would be so much easier to communicate with providers, schools, and other parents if it had the recognition it deserves. We're still walking the tight rope of lower demands, offering choices, using declarative language but also imposing logical consequences for behavior that is truly destructive or hurtful. I can appreciate the perspective of PDA podcasters, but I am really frustrated by the lack of guidance about how to impose consequences that are fair, consistent, and don't trigger the PDA response. You can't just not discipline your child. I'm very interested to see the outcome of this low-demand parenting as most of these podcasters have minor children.

One of my asd kids is pda. I gave him zero consequences except when his actions effected his sibling. Hes doing great- in college, in a stable relationship.

How did that work? like he didn’t take out the trash and you just said ok and did it yourself? He swore or hit you and you let it go? He watched TV instead of homework?

Pretty much, without the hysterical gibberish you threw in there.

If he didn't take out the trash when I asked him to I just did it later. I greatly valued peace and low stress over "winning!!"
As I said, he's a college student in a stable relationship. Hes working towards an advanced degree. I expect he won't be taking fhe trash out when he gets married ans I expect his partner who also seems to have pda won't either. Luckily removing the petty demands allowed him to thrive and focus on what he was interested in ans I expect he'll be hiring someone else to take his thrash out. Maybe it will be one of the maladjusted kids who's parents insisted on dominating their children.

As for hitting- if thats what goes on in your home i suggest you seek help for your child pronto. Parent training or antipsychotics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Show of hands as we are talking about the biology behind autism- how many here have sought out a FRAT test for their autistic family members?

I am totally opposed to genetic testing that doesn’t have any benefit. so no, of course not.

NP. My kids have been diagnosed with a genetic syndrome that is associated with autism and they also have been diagnosed with autism. Treating the genetic syndrome with prescription supplements and medication has really improved their autism. There are no targeted gene therapies yet but they are working on it and it will happen soon, in the next couple years or decades. Then other children like mine may be cured.

Ok - but that is likely a completely different scenario than most people here, and possibly better conceptualized as a different diagnosis. Writ large there is absolutely zero reason to believe that there will be gene therapies for autism in the next couple of decades let alone years.

Yeah, so let's just not research genetic links to autism. Must be a waste of time and also if we don't research them you'll be proven correct!

It is a waste of time and money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fifth type in my opinion. PDA along with Level 1 ASD, ADHD, and anxiety.

This is my kid. It’s such a hard type to parent. I’m at a loss regarding what to do. Any thoughts?

I wish it were recognized because it's so hard to get providers to understand our children. When someone tells me their child is PDA, I just get it. They don't have to tell me Level 1 ASD, ADHD, anxiety, OCD, gifted, NT passing but needs lots of support, etc. It would be so much easier to communicate with providers, schools, and other parents if it had the recognition it deserves. We're still walking the tight rope of lower demands, offering choices, using declarative language but also imposing logical consequences for behavior that is truly destructive or hurtful. I can appreciate the perspective of PDA podcasters, but I am really frustrated by the lack of guidance about how to impose consequences that are fair, consistent, and don't trigger the PDA response. You can't just not discipline your child. I'm very interested to see the outcome of this low-demand parenting as most of these podcasters have minor children.

One of my asd kids is pda. I gave him zero consequences except when his actions effected his sibling. Hes doing great- in college, in a stable relationship.

How did that work? like he didn’t take out the trash and you just said ok and did it yourself? He swore or hit you and you let it go? He watched TV instead of homework?

Pretty much, without the hysterical gibberish you threw in there.

If he didn't take out the trash when I asked him to I just did it later. I greatly valued peace and low stress over "winning!!"
As I said, he's a college student in a stable relationship. Hes working towards an advanced degree. I expect he won't be taking fhe trash out when he gets married ans I expect his partner who also seems to have pda won't either. Luckily removing the petty demands allowed him to thrive and focus on what he was interested in ans I expect he'll be hiring someone else to take his thrash out. Maybe it will be one of the maladjusted kids who's parents insisted on dominating their children.

As for hitting- if thats what goes on in your home i suggest you seek help for your child pronto. Parent training or antipsychotics

Wow ok. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Show of hands as we are talking about the biology behind autism- how many here have sought out a FRAT test for their autistic family members?

I am totally opposed to genetic testing that doesn’t have any benefit. so no, of course not.

NP. My kids have been diagnosed with a genetic syndrome that is associated with autism and they also have been diagnosed with autism. Treating the genetic syndrome with prescription supplements and medication has really improved their autism. There are no targeted gene therapies yet but they are working on it and it will happen soon, in the next couple years or decades. Then other children like mine may be cured.

Ok - but that is likely a completely different scenario than most people here, and possibly better conceptualized as a different diagnosis. Writ large there is absolutely zero reason to believe that there will be gene therapies for autism in the next couple of decades let alone years.

Yeah, so let's just not research genetic links to autism. Must be a waste of time and also if we don't research them you'll be proven correct!

It is a waste of time and money.

DP. I don’t think it’s a waste but it’s crazy how this seems to be the only avenue researchers are/are able to pursue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Show of hands as we are talking about the biology behind autism- how many here have sought out a FRAT test for their autistic family members?

I am totally opposed to genetic testing that doesn’t have any benefit. so no, of course not.

NP. My kids have been diagnosed with a genetic syndrome that is associated with autism and they also have been diagnosed with autism. Treating the genetic syndrome with prescription supplements and medication has really improved their autism. There are no targeted gene therapies yet but they are working on it and it will happen soon, in the next couple years or decades. Then other children like mine may be cured.

Ok - but that is likely a completely different scenario than most people here, and possibly better conceptualized as a different diagnosis. Writ large there is absolutely zero reason to believe that there will be gene therapies for autism in the next couple of decades let alone years.

Yeah, so let's just not research genetic links to autism. Must be a waste of time and also if we don't research them you'll be proven correct!

It is a waste of time and money.

DP. I don’t think it’s a waste but it’s crazy how this seems to be the only avenue researchers are/are able to pursue.

What do you think they should pursue?

The ABA industry is valued at billions of dollars paid for from insurance premiums and tax dollars every year, much from companies that coerce families into signing their kid up for 40 hours of treatment weekly delivered by people without college degrees who haven't even completed their RBT certification. The cost of this research is nothing when put into perspective and I think understanding the biology behind autism is pretty important.