Majoring in English—why so much disrespect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many from the LMC view education as vocational training and don’t understand the value of a liberal arts education.

Correction: many from the UMC view education as a status signal and don't understand the value of a professional education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of it is that English or other humanities majors have higher acceptance rates and lower selectivity, often used or proposed by DCuM as a back door to enter elite colleges.

Elite colleges might have separate schools of engineering with lower acceptance rates, but otherwise don't generally admit into certain majors. And certainly don't release acceptance data by major.

Not just engineering. There are many many oversubscribed majors, finance, premed.

Where they have separate engineering school, their CAS also offer Computer Science major (Cornell, Columbia). Penn is free to take CS courses, and / or double major.

DCUM counselors frequently shouted "it's the major!". But yes, one can sneak in as English major then switch to Econ. That leads to disrespect.

Premed isn't a major.

Name a top 20 school, other than Cal and UCLA, that has a separate admissions process/data for English vs biology or economics.

So, are you saying DCUM counselors were wrong?

Every time when Asian are discriminated against in the admission process, DCUM counselors claim that it's the major, it's the major!
So is it, or is it not?

Yes, I am most definitely saying that dcum "common wisdom" is wrong about a lot of things. Schools want to build classes with students interested in a variety of things, so aren't going to accept all math competition winners and may look twice at someone who won a prestigious poetry award. A math competition winner saying they are interested in English doesn't change anything.

A prestigious poetry award? Are you nuts? That certainly gets admitted.

Most applicants are well rounded students with garden variety ECs that are not as pointy as a prestigious poetry award. Obviously they aren't getting in the oversubscribed majors. English, history, women studies, obviously are ways to go, particularly for boys. I think that's what DCUM counselors were suggesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chaucer, that's another one I never read. If only my parents knew, they were already not thrilled with the English degree but I didn't even read half the books. I did watch all the movies though. Somehow I got a great job working for the government.

Lazy English major?

I considered myself to be highly efficient, I graduated with virtually no effort put forth.

Great professors at GMU back then. I just started wondering if any of them might stumble upon this thread. CF was the best. I can't remember the other names. The one who taught Southern Gothic lit was great, I recommend A Feast of Snakes, that nice old lady had us read that filthy book. The guy who did Sci Fi was great too, A Gate to Women's Country was my favorite. Another shout out to the one who had us read One Hundred Years of Solitude, she promised that we'd all read it again one day, I tried to watch the Netflix show but it was terrible. So there, I read at least three books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books

Which then begs the question, why do I need to study so many subjects that I will never use in my career? It's not necessarily the specific subject matter that's important, its the the thought processes and skills that we develop that's important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chaucer, that's another one I never read. If only my parents knew, they were already not thrilled with the English degree but I didn't even read half the books. I did watch all the movies though. Somehow I got a great job working for the government.

Lazy English major?

I considered myself to be highly efficient, I graduated with virtually no effort put forth.

Great professors at GMU back then. I just started wondering if any of them might stumble upon this thread. CF was the best. I can't remember the other names. The one who taught Southern Gothic lit was great, I recommend A Feast of Snakes, that nice old lady had us read that filthy book. The guy who did Sci Fi was great too, A Gate to Women's Country was my favorite. Another shout out to the one who had us read One Hundred Years of Solitude, she promised that we'd all read it again one day, I tried to watch the Netflix show but it was terrible. So there, I read at least three books.

Sounds like the GMU program wasn't very rigorous back in your day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We have a history major who is pairing it with a science minor that's in hot demand. Every parent is pushing their kid into STEM and it's leading to a glut of applicants. Being able to show that you are well-rounded (able to write with good reading comprehension and a sense of history) combined with some science is a good combination. We have a glut of STEM graduates on the hiring market that aren't even getting interviews now because every kid is a STEM major. Too many bodies chasing too few jobs. English is a fine major.

Is your kid expecting to work in the “hot” science minor field?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books

It's like buying a diamond. It's a status symbol.

Knowledge of useless, arcane subjects is proof that you are wealthy enough to spend time on leisure pursuits instead of doing productive work.

There is some beautiful poetry from pre-modern English. There isn't much new epic alliterative poetry like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. But there's no need to read in the obsolete spellings, and definitely no need to, as most namedroppers do, mispronounce all the old words while pretentiously bragging about how cultured you are!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books

It's like buying a diamond. It's a status symbol.

Knowledge of useless, arcane subjects is proof that you are wealthy enough to spend time on leisure pursuits instead of doing productive work.

There is some beautiful poetry from pre-modern English. There isn't much new epic alliterative poetry like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. But there's no need to read in the obsolete spellings, and definitely no need to, as most namedroppers do, mispronounce all the old words while pretentiously bragging about how cultured you are!

Your statement shows a certain educational narrow mindedness, that anything not new or practical is not worth studying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I majored in English, work in communications, and have a six-figure salary. Because I worked for a university, I also took advantage of the tuition benefit and earned a master’s degree as well, also in English. I have an interesting, flexible job that I love. I think anyone can be successful with just about any type of degree, as long as you gain experience along the way and know how to present yourself.

This is a compelling example of someone forging a career directly in line with studying English.

I don’t get why anyone says I majored in X and then went to law school or earned an MBA in order to become Y. It’s a tacit admission that it can’t be a useful terminal degree for many.

High school isn't a useful terminal degree for many. Why go to high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books

It's like buying a diamond. It's a status symbol.

Knowledge of useless, arcane subjects is proof that you are wealthy enough to spend time on leisure pursuits instead of doing productive work.

There is some beautiful poetry from pre-modern English. There isn't much new epic alliterative poetry like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. But there's no need to read in the obsolete spellings, and definitely no need to, as most namedroppers do, mispronounce all the old words while pretentiously bragging about how cultured you are!

Your diamond analogy does not make sense. You don't study English as a status symbol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The wealthiest person I know (a multi-millionaire) majored in English, went on later to get an MBA, and successfully started two companies. He encouraged his own children to get a solid liberal arts education before picking a career.

+1000

It’s sad we have completely abandoned liberal arts as a base education. Society is worse off for it. No framework for history, geography, religions, ethics, etc. The fall of civilization. We have a front row seat to it right now.

Those that don’t learn history are doomed to repeat it.

That's what high school is for. How are kids escaping high school without a liberal arts education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chaucer, that's another one I never read. If only my parents knew, they were already not thrilled with the English degree but I didn't even read half the books. I did watch all the movies though. Somehow I got a great job working for the government.

Lazy English major?

I considered myself to be highly efficient, I graduated with virtually no effort put forth.

Great professors at GMU back then. I just started wondering if any of them might stumble upon this thread. CF was the best. I can't remember the other names. The one who taught Southern Gothic lit was great, I recommend A Feast of Snakes, that nice old lady had us read that filthy book. The guy who did Sci Fi was great too, A Gate to Women's Country was my favorite. Another shout out to the one who had us read One Hundred Years of Solitude, she promised that we'd all read it again one day, I tried to watch the Netflix show but it was terrible. So there, I read at least three books.

Sounds like the GMU program wasn't very rigorous back in your day.

You picked up on that? Was it me repeatedly declaring English to be super easy? The classmates I kept in touch with did very well for themselves though.

[Anonymous]

It seems there are many on this thread who believe that education has to be directly practical in terms of future jobs. That's okay, but you may want to consider trade school and skip all those "useless" classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

Oof, I remember having to recite this for class. "Shoor-us soot-eh ..."

This Chaucer lesson brings home so many important aspects of the human experience. I was an English major (double major with a social science), then went on to get a Masters, and then went to law school. Thirty years later I still remember with love and gratitude my English classes: the things we read and discussed and wrote. It made me a better reader, a better writer, and a more empathetic and nuanced human being.

Today people (including me) worry so much about what jobs their kids will get after college. I’d encourage a double major along with English. But the study of language and literature is one of the things that helps us keep our humanity. Covid showed us the importance of the arts to human survival. I’d be proud if my kids majored in English or history. But if they didn’t want to be academics or go to graduate school for something more “marketable,” I’d be nervous.

You are old. (I am too. Everyone on DCUM is.) So is that poster who works in communications.

Young people today have audio video communications. Books and school aren't how people get exposed to other cultures and new ideas.