Majoring in English—why so much disrespect?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books

Which then begs the question, why do I need to study so many subjects that I will never use in my career? It's not necessarily the specific subject matter that's important, its the the thought processes and skills that we develop that's important.

I can understand learning history, social science, but none of those classes are taught in ye olde English. So, again, why does one need to understand Chaucer's old English?

I think it's important to read some classics, but I don't think it's important to read every classic.

Majoring in English is not only (or primarily) about reading the classics. It's about thinking about literature and the ways that literature reflect (or doesn't reflect) society and our culture. It's about expanding our imaginations and empathy through seeing the world through others' perspectives. And it's about close reading and defending ideas with specific examples.

I agree with you, but sadly that is what is lacking in today's society and spefically here on DCUM

Dcum -- and the world -- would be a better place with more English majors and fewer business majors.

We need more doctors and nurses.

Who need to be literate and critical thinkers and be able to see/understand things from various perspectives. I think this thread has encouraged me to encourage my kid to go with their heart and do that English major.

Then get ready to spend $$ on a graduate degree.

Um....just like the doctors and many nurses also do? And all the lawyers? And a lot of business people with MBAs?
She's likely going to pursue a masters anyway; so she might as well study what she loves. It doesn't preclude her from double majoring or minoring with another "more suitable iyo" subject area.

well, lots of English majors go into law, not so much into med school.

But, the point is that, for the most part, English majors (and other liberal arts majors) need a grad degree to get a good paying job.

You don't need an MBA to get a good paying job, btw.

So, now your English major DC is going to have to double major in a more "suitable" major because they acknowledge that an English degree by itself doesn't do much.

And we've come full circle to the topic of the thread.

BTW, my kid is a dual math/CS major. They know that a math degree by itself doesn't do much for you, but they just love math. But, they like CS, too. So, it works out for DC. I do understand why people want to major in LA, but practically speaking, that's not enough. Even my kid knew that. They are now at an internship for a tech company earning $20K for 10 weeks of work .

For the vast majority of people, a practical degree is much more beneficial and desirable. And we see that playing out in the real world when you look at which degree programs are impacted and which aren't.

And doctors and lawyers need grad school to get those careers as well. So what?
And how is someone majoring in English because they love it and double majoring in something else different from your son majoring in math because he loves it but acknowledges the value of an additional course of study? Just because your son's two subject areas fall under STEM doesn't make it any more practical or useful. For a lot of people, it isn't about maximizing income and they are fine with the trade-off to pursue something they prefer. It's not like they're pursuing a bachelors in a liberal arts field expecting to land a 6-figure job upon graduation.

Yeah, a lot of people prefer a "practical" degree. For a lot of other people, they desire something that may not be as immediately lucrative. The degree programs are more impacted by society's emphasis on acquiring as much wealth as possible, less by a majority of students who truly love and desire those majors. If I were to bet, I'd bet that a great portion of those kids in those majors are there for the anticipated income and not because they are following their greatest intellectual interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chaucer, that's another one I never read. If only my parents knew, they were already not thrilled with the English degree but I didn't even read half the books. I did watch all the movies though. Somehow I got a great job working for the government.

I was an English major and I actually feel sorry for you. You had the incredible gift and luxury of four years to immerse yourself in reading great books without the distractions and grind of having to earn a living, and you squandered it. You don't even know what you missed out on. It's such a privilege and there are so many people in the world who yearn for such opportunities and will never be lucky enough have them.

Uh, no, I missed out on nothing. I had a great time. College was freaking awesome, except for the classes, but otherwise I enjoyed every minute.

As far as the comments go about English majors needing a post graduate degree, why would I do that? I picked the easiest major in other to avoid studying.

Point proven. You don't know what you missed out on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books

Which then begs the question, why do I need to study so many subjects that I will never use in my career? It's not necessarily the specific subject matter that's important, its the the thought processes and skills that we develop that's important.

I can understand learning history, social science, but none of those classes are taught in ye olde English. So, again, why does one need to understand Chaucer's old English?

I think it's important to read some classics, but I don't think it's important to read every classic.

Majoring in English is not only (or primarily) about reading the classics. It's about thinking about literature and the ways that literature reflect (or doesn't reflect) society and our culture. It's about expanding our imaginations and empathy through seeing the world through others' perspectives. And it's about close reading and defending ideas with specific examples.

I agree with you, but sadly that is what is lacking in today's society and spefically here on DCUM

Dcum -- and the world -- would be a better place with more English majors and fewer business majors.

We need more doctors and nurses.

Who need to be literate and critical thinkers and be able to see/understand things from various perspectives. I think this thread has encouraged me to encourage my kid to go with their heart and do that English major.

Then get ready to spend $$ on a graduate degree.

Um....just like the doctors and many nurses also do? And all the lawyers? And a lot of business people with MBAs?
She's likely going to pursue a masters anyway; so she might as well study what she loves. It doesn't preclude her from double majoring or minoring with another "more suitable iyo" subject area.

well, lots of English majors go into law, not so much into med school.

But, the point is that, for the most part, English majors (and other liberal arts majors) need a grad degree to get a good paying job.

You don't need an MBA to get a good paying job, btw.

So, now your English major DC is going to have to double major in a more "suitable" major because they acknowledge that an English degree by itself doesn't do much.

And we've come full circle to the topic of the thread.

BTW, my kid is a dual math/CS major. They know that a math degree by itself doesn't do much for you, but they just love math. But, they like CS, too. So, it works out for DC. I do understand why people want to major in LA, but practically speaking, that's not enough. Even my kid knew that. They are now at an internship for a tech company earning $20K for 10 weeks of work .

For the vast majority of people, a practical degree is much more beneficial and desirable. And we see that playing out in the real world when you look at which degree programs are impacted and which aren't.

DP.
I’m not sure why you’re arguing against a degree you don’t have. It’s an odd hill to die on.

We see this differently. You see the English degree is the end, but I see it as part of a successful path. For many of us, a BA wasn’t our goal; an advanced degree was. My English major made grad school a breeze because I was ready for the intensive reading and writing my program required.

I’m glad your kid is doing well. Sincerely. Guess what? So is mine with her liberal arts degree. Isn’t it wonderful that we live in a world that has room for both? And isn’t it great that both children were able to pursue their passions successfully?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books

Which then begs the question, why do I need to study so many subjects that I will never use in my career? It's not necessarily the specific subject matter that's important, its the the thought processes and skills that we develop that's important.

I can understand learning history, social science, but none of those classes are taught in ye olde English. So, again, why does one need to understand Chaucer's old English?

I think it's important to read some classics, but I don't think it's important to read every classic.

Majoring in English is not only (or primarily) about reading the classics. It's about thinking about literature and the ways that literature reflect (or doesn't reflect) society and our culture. It's about expanding our imaginations and empathy through seeing the world through others' perspectives. And it's about close reading and defending ideas with specific examples.

I agree with you, but sadly that is what is lacking in today's society and spefically here on DCUM

Dcum -- and the world -- would be a better place with more English majors and fewer business majors.

We need more doctors and nurses.

Who need to be literate and critical thinkers and be able to see/understand things from various perspectives. I think this thread has encouraged me to encourage my kid to go with their heart and do that English major.

Then get ready to spend $$ on a graduate degree.

Um....just like the doctors and many nurses also do? And all the lawyers? And a lot of business people with MBAs?
She's likely going to pursue a masters anyway; so she might as well study what she loves. It doesn't preclude her from double majoring or minoring with another "more suitable iyo" subject area.

well, lots of English majors go into law, not so much into med school.

But, the point is that, for the most part, English majors (and other liberal arts majors) need a grad degree to get a good paying job.

You don't need an MBA to get a good paying job, btw.

So, now your English major DC is going to have to double major in a more "suitable" major because they acknowledge that an English degree by itself doesn't do much.

And we've come full circle to the topic of the thread.

BTW, my kid is a dual math/CS major. They know that a math degree by itself doesn't do much for you, but they just love math. But, they like CS, too. So, it works out for DC. I do understand why people want to major in LA, but practically speaking, that's not enough. Even my kid knew that. They are now at an internship for a tech company earning $20K for 10 weeks of work .

For the vast majority of people, a practical degree is much more beneficial and desirable. And we see that playing out in the real world when you look at which degree programs are impacted and which aren't.

DP.
I’m not sure why you’re arguing against a degree you don’t have. It’s an odd hill to die on.

We see this differently. You see the English degree is the end, but I see it as part of a successful path. For many of us, a BA wasn’t our goal; an advanced degree was. My English major made grad school a breeze because I was ready for the intensive reading and writing my program required.

I’m glad your kid is doing well. Sincerely. Guess what? So is mine with her liberal arts degree. Isn’t it wonderful that we live in a world that has room for both? And isn’t it great that both children were able to pursue their passions successfully?

Um.. yea, exactly.. read the bolded. English degrees need advanced degrees to get a good paying job, for the most part.

Why don't you pay attention to the rest of PP's comments instead of homing in on the advanced degree? Your assertion about the necessity for an advanced degree to get a "good paying job" is irrelevant. PP is telling you that's exactly what they WANT! An advanced degree. Their personal goals include earning a post-graduate degree and their English major made that path easier because of the skills they developed. And what's your definition of "good paying job" anyway?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books

Which then begs the question, why do I need to study so many subjects that I will never use in my career? It's not necessarily the specific subject matter that's important, its the the thought processes and skills that we develop that's important.

I can understand learning history, social science, but none of those classes are taught in ye olde English. So, again, why does one need to understand Chaucer's old English?

I think it's important to read some classics, but I don't think it's important to read every classic.

Majoring in English is not only (or primarily) about reading the classics. It's about thinking about literature and the ways that literature reflect (or doesn't reflect) society and our culture. It's about expanding our imaginations and empathy through seeing the world through others' perspectives. And it's about close reading and defending ideas with specific examples.

I agree with you, but sadly that is what is lacking in today's society and spefically here on DCUM

Dcum -- and the world -- would be a better place with more English majors and fewer business majors.

We need more doctors and nurses.

Who need to be literate and critical thinkers and be able to see/understand things from various perspectives. I think this thread has encouraged me to encourage my kid to go with their heart and do that English major.

Then get ready to spend $$ on a graduate degree.

Um....just like the doctors and many nurses also do? And all the lawyers? And a lot of business people with MBAs?
She's likely going to pursue a masters anyway; so she might as well study what she loves. It doesn't preclude her from double majoring or minoring with another "more suitable iyo" subject area.

well, lots of English majors go into law, not so much into med school.

But, the point is that, for the most part, English majors (and other liberal arts majors) need a grad degree to get a good paying job.

You don't need an MBA to get a good paying job, btw.

So, now your English major DC is going to have to double major in a more "suitable" major because they acknowledge that an English degree by itself doesn't do much.

And we've come full circle to the topic of the thread.

BTW, my kid is a dual math/CS major. They know that a math degree by itself doesn't do much for you, but they just love math. But, they like CS, too. So, it works out for DC. I do understand why people want to major in LA, but practically speaking, that's not enough. Even my kid knew that. They are now at an internship for a tech company earning $20K for 10 weeks of work .

For the vast majority of people, a practical degree is much more beneficial and desirable. And we see that playing out in the real world when you look at which degree programs are impacted and which aren't.

DP.
I’m not sure why you’re arguing against a degree you don’t have. It’s an odd hill to die on.

We see this differently. You see the English degree is the end, but I see it as part of a successful path. For many of us, a BA wasn’t our goal; an advanced degree was. My English major made grad school a breeze because I was ready for the intensive reading and writing my program required.

I’m glad your kid is doing well. Sincerely. Guess what? So is mine with her liberal arts degree. Isn’t it wonderful that we live in a world that has room for both? And isn’t it great that both children were able to pursue their passions successfully?

Um.. yea, exactly.. read the bolded. English degrees need advanced degrees to get a good paying job, for the most part.

Again… okay? I never planned to stop at a BA. A bachelors was merely a step on my path, not my final destination.

If a BS is your final goal, then great.

And again: if an English major was never part of your journey, why do you care so much that others took this path? It doesn’t impact you AT ALL.

DP. It in fact helps PP. The more who major in English, the fewer competitors for their "good paying job." They should be encouraging more people to pursue these so-called wasted degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My niece graduated from NYU with an undergrad English major.

She has been steadily employed by the tech companies. Amazingly to us, she gets recruited by the tech companies.

She makes good money.

She does not have an advanced degree.

Because tech companies need people who know how to read and write and communicate!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My niece graduated from NYU with an undergrad English major.

She has been steadily employed by the tech companies. Amazingly to us, she gets recruited by the tech companies.

She makes good money.

She does not have an advanced degree.

Curious, what is her job?

[Anonymous]

People who "disrespect" others, no matter their station in life, do not deserve respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books

Which then begs the question, why do I need to study so many subjects that I will never use in my career? It's not necessarily the specific subject matter that's important, its the the thought processes and skills that we develop that's important.

I can understand learning history, social science, but none of those classes are taught in ye olde English. So, again, why does one need to understand Chaucer's old English?

I think it's important to read some classics, but I don't think it's important to read every classic.

Majoring in English is not only (or primarily) about reading the classics. It's about thinking about literature and the ways that literature reflect (or doesn't reflect) society and our culture. It's about expanding our imaginations and empathy through seeing the world through others' perspectives. And it's about close reading and defending ideas with specific examples.

I agree with you, but sadly that is what is lacking in today's society and spefically here on DCUM

Dcum -- and the world -- would be a better place with more English majors and fewer business majors.

We need more doctors and nurses.

Who need to be literate and critical thinkers and be able to see/understand things from various perspectives. I think this thread has encouraged me to encourage my kid to go with their heart and do that English major.

Then get ready to spend $$ on a graduate degree.

Um....just like the doctors and many nurses also do? And all the lawyers? And a lot of business people with MBAs?
She's likely going to pursue a masters anyway; so she might as well study what she loves. It doesn't preclude her from double majoring or minoring with another "more suitable iyo" subject area.

+1, study what she loves and get good grades to get into grad school.

Literally everyone I work with has a grad degree. I dont know their undergrad majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My niece graduated from NYU with an undergrad English major.

She has been steadily employed by the tech companies. Amazingly to us, she gets recruited by the tech companies.

She makes good money.

She does not have an advanced degree.

Curious, what is her job?

Current job is product manager.
She gets regularly recruited by tech companies.


My dad was shocked when she got hired right out of college.

[Anonymous]

dony898 wrote:Everyone dunks on English majors until they need help writing a single coherent sentence on LinkedIn.

So true!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:History and English were considered respectable majors in the past. I know many who went on to law school or medical school. They’re generally thought to have good writing and analytical skills. Now, people scoff when you saying you’re majoring in English or history. I know there’s AI to worry about, but isn’t that true for CS and accounting too?

I don’t know a single English major that went on to medical school.

No way you know many.

Plenty of non STEMs go into medicine.

Some do…of course they have to take all the STEM/pre-med classes to do it and that may require a 5th year.

It typically does not require a 5th year, because most non-stem LA majors have tons of "free electives". A premed student simply utilizes those "free electives" and takes all the premed prerequisites. It's actually easier than many stem majors, which don't have that many free electives. So sure a BME major will have most prerequisites covered. A math major may not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:An example of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in Middle English. Understanding it is only the beginning.

"Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote

The droghte of Marche hath perced to the roote,

And bathed every veyne in swich licour,

Of which vertu engendred is the flour."

but, why do people need to understand this? I read Shakespeare, Flaubert, etc.. but I don't see the point in needing to understand very old English. My DH is English. He doesn't even like reading those types of books

Which then begs the question, why do I need to study so many subjects that I will never use in my career? It's not necessarily the specific subject matter that's important, its the the thought processes and skills that we develop that's important.

I can understand learning history, social science, but none of those classes are taught in ye olde English. So, again, why does one need to understand Chaucer's old English?

I think it's important to read some classics, but I don't think it's important to read every classic.

Majoring in English is not only (or primarily) about reading the classics. It's about thinking about literature and the ways that literature reflect (or doesn't reflect) society and our culture. It's about expanding our imaginations and empathy through seeing the world through others' perspectives. And it's about close reading and defending ideas with specific examples.

I agree with you, but sadly that is what is lacking in today's society and spefically here on DCUM

Dcum -- and the world -- would be a better place with more English majors and fewer business majors.

We need more doctors and nurses.

Who need to be literate and critical thinkers and be able to see/understand things from various perspectives. I think this thread has encouraged me to encourage my kid to go with their heart and do that English major.

Then get ready to spend $$ on a graduate degree.

Um....just like the doctors and many nurses also do? And all the lawyers? And a lot of business people with MBAs?
She's likely going to pursue a masters anyway; so she might as well study what she loves. It doesn't preclude her from double majoring or minoring with another "more suitable iyo" subject area.

well, lots of English majors go into law, not so much into med school.

But, the point is that, for the most part, English majors (and other liberal arts majors) need a grad degree to get a good paying job.

You don't need an MBA to get a good paying job, btw.

So, now your English major DC is going to have to double major in a more "suitable" major because they acknowledge that an English degree by itself doesn't do much.

And we've come full circle to the topic of the thread.

BTW, my kid is a dual math/CS major. They know that a math degree by itself doesn't do much for you, but they just love math. But, they like CS, too. So, it works out for DC. I do understand why people want to major in LA, but practically speaking, that's not enough. Even my kid knew that. They are now at an internship for a tech company earning $20K for 10 weeks of work .

For the vast majority of people, a practical degree is much more beneficial and desirable. And we see that playing out in the real world when you look at which degree programs are impacted and which aren't.

And doctors and lawyers need grad school to get those careers as well. So what?
And how is someone majoring in English because they love it and double majoring in something else different from your son majoring in math because he loves it but acknowledges the value of an additional course of study? Just because your son's two subject areas fall under STEM doesn't make it any more practical or useful. For a lot of people, it isn't about maximizing income and they are fine with the trade-off to pursue something they prefer. It's not like they're pursuing a bachelors in a liberal arts field expecting to land a 6-figure job upon graduation.

Yeah, a lot of people prefer a "practical" degree. For a lot of other people, they desire something that may not be as immediately lucrative. The degree programs are more impacted by society's emphasis on acquiring as much wealth as possible, less by a majority of students who truly love and desire those majors. If I were to bet, I'd bet that a great portion of those kids in those majors are there for the anticipated income and not because they are following their greatest intellectual interests.

Yes, most LA majors require grad school, and that includes bio, chem, etc.