Why don't colleges require AP scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are low level and getting the highest score, 5, is pretty easy.

Colleges know that AP scores are not really helpful for anything from an admissions perspective.

Why do so many private school kids self-study and take the exams even when they didn’t take the course?

It is easy to get 5s on exams for classes you never took just from doing a little studying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are low level and getting the highest score, 5, is pretty easy.

Colleges know that AP scores are not really helpful for anything from an admissions perspective.

That’s so wrong.

They show the kid knows the material and the HS was rigorous.

In the US:
Less than 9% of kids score a 5 on APLang, 10% on APUSH, less than 20% AP calc.

4s are18%, less than 22%, less than 16%.

That is telling!!!!!

There are a lot of terrible public high schools. Any decent high school will have the majority of kids getting 5s.

Anything less than a 5 is a red flag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are low level and getting the highest score, 5, is pretty easy.

Colleges know that AP scores are not really helpful for anything from an admissions perspective.

That’s so wrong.

They show the kid knows the material and the HS was rigorous.

In the US:
Less than 9% of kids score a 5 on APLang, 10% on APUSH, less than 20% AP calc.

4s are18%, less than 22%, less than 16%.

That is telling!!!!!

Yep- HS profiles with hardly any 4 or 5s show the kids weren’t prepared all year. A school where the majority of kids are getting 4-5s like another poster mentioned speaks to the level of instruction, the preparedness, et

You don’t need AP test scores to tell you if a high school is awful. The % college matriculation is a better indicator. Anywhere with nearly 100% will have predominantly 5s on APs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are low level and getting the highest score, 5, is pretty easy.

Colleges know that AP scores are not really helpful for anything from an admissions perspective.

That’s so wrong.

They show the kid knows the material and the HS was rigorous.

In the US:
Less than 9% of kids score a 5 on APLang, 10% on APUSH, less than 20% AP calc.

4s are18%, less than 22%, less than 16%.

That is telling!!!!!

SAT is supposed to test foundational knowledge. National average is around 1000.
Only 1% get a score of 1450, which is very low not competitive for top colleges.
Meanwhile 10% get 5 on APUSH?
And you think that is "telling" with 5 exclamation marks?
Give me a break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like the SAT, the AP tests have been completely watered down and are a lot less meaningful than they used to be. This is why private schools have stopped bothering.

I am so tired of hearing of these striver kids from Enloe or TJ or wherever who are takin 20 APs including 4 as a freshmen then end up getting rejected by Ivies and ending up at meh state schools.

I personally think they do more harm than good. I understand they are unfortunately a necessary evil to show a student is taking the most rigorous courses, but they are a waste of time. I would rather my kid take the core courses at the university they are going to than placing into super advanced classes with upperclassmen. Unless the goal is to graduate early, being in advanced classes doesn't get you anywhere.

But I digress...

I actually disagree, but I do concede that a lot of the "AP experience" depends on the school.

At my kid's "good public school" the AP classes are worthwhile for a highly capable kid, because the cohorts are stronger and the rigor is greater. The teachers are generally better, and the self-motivation and overall learning and exposure to other high achieving kids all happen in the AP classes. So while it's not about the test or "the 5" it IS about a fundamentally different classroom experience in an AP course. Which again, may not happen at all schools. But this has been the case at my kid's school and I am grateful for this (free!) opportunity, and for their capacity to engage with and get results on a rigorous track.

also a lot of public schools have gotten rid of meaningful honors courses outside of AP classes, and in order to have the guidance counselor say you took a rigorous course load you have to take a bunch of APs. I hate the system too but my kids can't change it and I am not willing to pay $400K just to avoid it when my kids are learning under the current system. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AP tests are $100 each. They can’t require AP scores and certainly not many if the kids aren’t subsidized.

Some schools pay for the tests but most don’t.

Not sure if this is regional, or my school district is skimming from me, but our public school district in the PNW charges $140 per AP, increasing to $185 per test if you sign up after Nov. 2nd. No refund if you decide not to take the test of course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems like a good way to help figure out who know the material and who doesn't...as most have a have 20 percent getting 5's.

And with the internet you can still study to get a 5 even with a bad teacher.

Because not all schools subscribe to College Board's standardized AP course content. For example, Philips Andover (the #1 boarding school in the US) doesn't teach the college board curriculum so none of the students take APs. However, their classes are very rigorous and advanced.

The College Board is just a money-making scheme IMO. We're at a public school and I hate how it's become an arms race of AP classes, AP tests and SATs - all just to make $$ for this company. I have to say I haven't been impressed by the AP curriculum for either AP Lang & Comp or APUSH or AP European History. It doesn't teach enough depth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It helps determine which schools have grade inflation.

Our private Catholic is rated very high and does well with college matriculation because the exams are required (or you fail the course) and the vast majority get 4s-5s.

Colleges do see the AP profile of schools.

My kid got all 5s, reported them and did very well with T10/20s.

That is the most important.

If done correctly, we can replace transcript with AP scores. Honestly, transcripts from some high schools are watered down and could not be used meaningfully. National wide exams should replace transcript.

The next thing to do is to make AP exams much harder than they are right now. Instead of half or more getting 5s, thre should be a cap on only 5% can get a score of 5.

Are you ok? 50% of kids taking AP exams do not get a 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems like a good way to help figure out who know the material and who doesn't...as most have a have 20 percent getting 5's.

And with the internet you can still study to get a 5 even with a bad teacher.

Because not all schools subscribe to College Board's standardized AP course content. For example, Philips Andover (the #1 boarding school in the US) doesn't teach the college board curriculum so none of the students take APs. However, their classes are very rigorous and advanced.

The College Board is just a money-making scheme IMO. We're at a public school and I hate how it's become an arms race of AP classes, AP tests and SATs - all just to make $$ for this company. I have to say I haven't been impressed by the AP curriculum for either AP Lang & Comp or APUSH or AP European History. It doesn't teach enough depth.

Exactly. For private schools, the more rigorous and thoughtful curriculums usually do not include any AP content. They are completely bespoke and less focused on teaching to an AP test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Senior year AP scores aren't even available until after graduation.

This and the fact that not all schools offer to pay for the tests are the answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are low level and getting the highest score, 5, is pretty easy.

Colleges know that AP scores are not really helpful for anything from an admissions perspective.

That’s so wrong.

They show the kid knows the material and the HS was rigorous.

In the US:
Less than 9% of kids score a 5 on APLang, 10% on APUSH, less than 20% AP calc.

4s are18%, less than 22%, less than 16%.

That is telling!!!!!

SAT is supposed to test foundational knowledge. National average is around 1000.
Only 1% get a score of 1450, which is very low not competitive for top colleges.
Meanwhile 10% get 5 on APUSH?
And you think that is "telling" with 5 exclamation marks?
Give me a break.

No. The colleges should see it all. The more info they have on students the better. ACT or SAT and report the AP scores for all AP courses taken. HS transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It helps determine which schools have grade inflation.

Our private Catholic is rated very high and does well with college matriculation because the exams are required (or you fail the course) and the vast majority get 4s-5s.

Colleges do see the AP profile of schools.

My kid got all 5s, reported them and did very well with T10/20s.

That is the most important.

If done correctly, we can replace transcript with AP scores. Honestly, transcripts from some high schools are watered down and could not be used meaningfully. National wide exams should replace transcript.

The next thing to do is to make AP exams much harder than they are right now. Instead of half or more getting 5s, thre should be a cap on only 5% can get a score of 5.

Are you ok? 50% of kids taking AP exams do not get a 5.

Less than 10% for any given subject get a 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the best high schools in the country don’t have AP or are eliminating AP classes? These high schools have their own advanced curriculum which is similar to college curriculum.

This. DC’s school (private, not DC) has only kept AP classes for specific subjects. Others were converted to their specific advanced curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are low level and getting the highest score, 5, is pretty easy.

Colleges know that AP scores are not really helpful for anything from an admissions perspective.

That’s so wrong.

They show the kid knows the material and the HS was rigorous.

In the US:
Less than 9% of kids score a 5 on APLang, 10% on APUSH, less than 20% AP calc.

4s are18%, less than 22%, less than 16%.

That is telling!!!!!

SAT is supposed to test foundational knowledge. National average is around 1000.
Only 1% get a score of 1450, which is very low not competitive for top colleges.
Meanwhile 10% get 5 on APUSH?
And you think that is "telling" with 5 exclamation marks?
Give me a break.

No. The colleges should see it all. The more info they have on students the better. ACT or SAT and report the AP scores for all AP courses taken. HS transcript.

No! 10% getting 5 is too many! Should be 1%! This is too easy a test, to the point it’s meaningless, not differentiating students. You are bringing in a factor that too many students can easily achieve. I’m not one against requiring test or AP, I am saying it should be made much much harder!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me this seems like a good way to help figure out who know the material and who doesn't...as most have a have 20 percent getting 5's.

And with the internet you can still study to get a 5 even with a bad teacher.

Because not all schools subscribe to College Board's standardized AP course content. For example, Philips Andover (the #1 boarding school in the US) doesn't teach the college board curriculum so none of the students take APs. However, their classes are very rigorous and advanced.

The College Board is just a money-making scheme IMO. We're at a public school and I hate how it's become an arms race of AP classes, AP tests and SATs - all just to make $$ for this company. I have to say I haven't been impressed by the AP curriculum for either AP Lang & Comp or APUSH or AP European History. It doesn't teach enough depth.

Exactly. For private schools, the more rigorous and thoughtful curriculums usually do not include any AP content. They are completely bespoke and less focused on teaching to an AP test.

Whatever they have to tell you to get you to write the check.