Why don't colleges require AP scores

[Anonymous]

To me this seems like a good way to help figure out who know the material and who doesn't...as most have a have 20 percent getting 5's.

And with the internet you can still study to get a 5 even with a bad teacher.

[Anonymous]

Like the SAT, the AP tests have been completely watered down and are a lot less meaningful than they used to be. This is why private schools have stopped bothering.

I am so tired of hearing of these striver kids from Enloe or TJ or wherever who are takin 20 APs including 4 as a freshmen then end up getting rejected by Ivies and ending up at meh state schools.

I personally think they do more harm than good. I understand they are unfortunately a necessary evil to show a student is taking the most rigorous courses, but they are a waste of time. I would rather my kid take the core courses at the university they are going to than placing into super advanced classes with upperclassmen. Unless the goal is to graduate early, being in advanced classes doesn't get you anywhere.

But I digress...

[Anonymous]

Because then it'll favor the privileged! Like the SAT! With AP scores required, the disadvantaged won't even bother to apply!

Says the standardized test hater.

As if there's anything – from GPAs (hello $250/hr tutors) to ECs (sailing across the Atlantic) to essays (hired guns) – that doesn't favor the rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like the SAT, the AP tests have been completely watered down and are a lot less meaningful than they used to be. This is why private schools have stopped bothering.

I am so tired of hearing of these striver kids from Enloe or TJ or wherever who are takin 20 APs including 4 as a freshmen then end up getting rejected by Ivies and ending up at meh state schools.

I personally think they do more harm than good. I understand they are unfortunately a necessary evil to show a student is taking the most rigorous courses, but they are a waste of time. I would rather my kid take the core courses at the university they are going to than placing into super advanced classes with upperclassmen. Unless the goal is to graduate early, being in advanced classes doesn't get you anywhere.

But I digress...

I actually disagree, but I do concede that a lot of the "AP experience" depends on the school.

At my kid's "good public school" the AP classes are worthwhile for a highly capable kid, because the cohorts are stronger and the rigor is greater. The teachers are generally better, and the self-motivation and overall learning and exposure to other high achieving kids all happen in the AP classes. So while it's not about the test or "the 5" it IS about a fundamentally different classroom experience in an AP course. Which again, may not happen at all schools. But this has been the case at my kid's school and I am grateful for this (free!) opportunity, and for their capacity to engage with and get results on a rigorous track.

[Anonymous]

quality of ap classes varies from school to school so wouldn't be fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like the SAT, the AP tests have been completely watered down and are a lot less meaningful than they used to be. This is why private schools have stopped bothering.

I am so tired of hearing of these striver kids from Enloe or TJ or wherever who are takin 20 APs including 4 as a freshmen then end up getting rejected by Ivies and ending up at meh state schools.

I personally think they do more harm than good. I understand they are unfortunately a necessary evil to show a student is taking the most rigorous courses, but they are a waste of time. I would rather my kid take the core courses at the university they are going to than placing into super advanced classes with upperclassmen. Unless the goal is to graduate early, being in advanced classes doesn't get you anywhere.

But I digress...

I actually disagree, but I do concede that a lot of the "AP experience" depends on the school.

At my kid's "good public school" the AP classes are worthwhile for a highly capable kid, because the cohorts are stronger and the rigor is greater. The teachers are generally better, and the self-motivation and overall learning and exposure to other high achieving kids all happen in the AP classes. So while it's not about the test or "the 5" it IS about a fundamentally different classroom experience in an AP course. Which again, may not happen at all schools. But this has been the case at my kid's school and I am grateful for this (free!) opportunity, and for their capacity to engage with and get results on a rigorous track.

Fair point. I am 100% supportive of wanting to be in honors classes surrounded by other top students. But can't you have this outside of the construct of "AP"? I know the answer is that the AP normalizes things across schools and all of that, which I get in theory. But the recent obsession in piling up countless AP classes has truly gotten out of hand.

I think it is almost a signaling device at this point for a school not to feel compelled to offer dozens of AP classes. It is basically saying "we know we're good. Colleges know we're good. We don't need to play this dumb game." Some schools have started to cap the number of AP classes a kid can take.

I am also a bit more bitter about this as a parent of kids in the northeast where schools start late and end late, so students are at a major disadvantage with APs. Southern schools are tripping over themselves to start earlier and earlier, which has gotten out of hand. It is too bad they can't push the APs back to force these schools to revert to a more normal schedule. Meanwhile, northeastern kids have a month less of class to prepare.

[Anonymous]

A number of notable colleges do look at AP scores in admissions, especially for applicants who don’t submit SAT scores. Yale, UCLA, Berkeley, NYU, Rochester, off the top of my head. Also Oxford, Cambridge, and many other overseas schools.

[Anonymous]

Because the best high schools in the country don’t have AP or are eliminating AP classes? These high schools have their own advanced curriculum which is similar to college curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the best high schools in the country don’t have AP or are eliminating AP classes? These high schools have their own advanced curriculum which is similar to college curriculum.

This is still a tiny percent of high schools…even DMV schools backtracked on getting rid of APs and most still sponsor the tests even if they don’t technically teach an AP class. I think only GDS stuck to their guns and got rid of the classes and sponsoring the tests.

The #1 reason is that AP tests aren’t free though some school districts (DCPS) will cover the cost.

If your school doesn’t cover, it’s $99 a test which is expensive for many people.

[Anonymous]

Senior year AP scores aren't even available until after graduation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like the SAT, the AP tests have been completely watered down and are a lot less meaningful than they used to be. This is why private schools have stopped bothering.

I am so tired of hearing of these striver kids from Enloe or TJ or wherever who are takin 20 APs including 4 as a freshmen then end up getting rejected by Ivies and ending up at meh state schools.

I personally think they do more harm than good. I understand they are unfortunately a necessary evil to show a student is taking the most rigorous courses, but they are a waste of time. I would rather my kid take the core courses at the university they are going to than placing into super advanced classes with upperclassmen. Unless the goal is to graduate early, being in advanced classes doesn't get you anywhere.

But I digress...

You have no idea of what you’re talking about.

That is definitely not why privates dropped AP classes, particularly not in the DMV. They dropped AP classes because they were facing increased competition from public schools and felt they needed to distinguish their academic programs from the public schools to justify their existence and expensive tuitions. After all, why bother spending 50k to go to private over public where the top student would take the same classes at both?

As for why colleges do not consider AP exam scores in admissions, it’s because AP exams were never designed for admissions purposes. They were designed to get college credit for high school students who complete college level work at a sufficiently high level. AP exams are not aptitude tests.

[Anonymous]

I also think that requiring the AP scores would stop the craziness of taking 20 AP classes. If you know you have to do well on the AP classes you take, then you might just take 3 or 4 and not 6. But now you can take 6 and just report 3 scores.

[Anonymous]

Students take AP test so they can transfer the credits to colleges. But AP classes are really watered down now, it is often suggested to a student to take the entry level class at colleges again instead of credit transfer. The material covered in an AP class corresponds to about two weeks of an entry level college course. The AP classes do a lot more harm than good to students by creating a false illusion of mastery.

[Anonymous]

Kids are piling on AP courses from 9th grade on, but many even at “good” private public and private high schools are lacking in the fundamentals of math and writing. Better to spend the first two years of high school focusing on the fundamentals and getting a genuinely solid base for the last two years of high school and college. That’s how it used to be, and that how it still is at some small privates that don’t allow kids to take AP classes until 11th grade. However, the AP’s and SAT’s have been watered down since then.

[Anonymous]

AP tests are $100 each. They can’t require AP scores and certainly not many if the kids aren’t subsidized.

Some schools pay for the tests but most don’t.