Why don't colleges require AP scores

[Anonymous]

- the tests are expensive
- not all high schools offer many, or any, APs, especially disadvantaged high schools
- many schools have prerequisite courses or otherwise limit who can sign up
- most are taken senior year, too late for admissions

[Anonymous]

It helps determine which schools have grade inflation.

Our private Catholic is rated very high and does well with college matriculation because the exams are required (or you fail the course) and the vast majority get 4s-5s.

Colleges do see the AP profile of schools.

My kid got all 5s, reported them and did very well with T10/20s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AP tests are $100 each. They can’t require AP scores and certainly not many if the kids aren’t subsidized.

Some schools pay for the tests but most don’t.

The fee can be waived for the disadvantaged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It helps determine which schools have grade inflation.

Our private Catholic is rated very high and does well with college matriculation because the exams are required (or you fail the course) and the vast majority get 4s-5s.

Colleges do see the AP profile of schools.

My kid got all 5s, reported them and did very well with T10/20s.

That is the most important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It helps determine which schools have grade inflation.

Our private Catholic is rated very high and does well with college matriculation because the exams are required (or you fail the course) and the vast majority get 4s-5s.

Colleges do see the AP profile of schools.

My kid got all 5s, reported them and did very well with T10/20s.

That is the most important.

If done correctly, we can replace transcript with AP scores. Honestly, transcripts from some high schools are watered down and could not be used meaningfully. National wide exams should replace transcript.

The next thing to do is to make AP exams much harder than they are right now. Instead of half or more getting 5s, there should be a cap on only 5% can get a score of 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP tests are $100 each. They can’t require AP scores and certainly not many if the kids aren’t subsidized.

Some schools pay for the tests but most don’t.

The fee can be waived for the disadvantaged.

It can be…but many times isn’t.

Even then, there are plenty of families that can’t get a waiver that can’t or won’t shell out $1000 for their kid to take 10 AP tests. So, is the idea that you just take 4 AP test in core subjects? What 4 would those be?

Also, you would have to take these tests by junior year to be relevant for admissions anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It helps determine which schools have grade inflation.

Our private Catholic is rated very high and does well with college matriculation because the exams are required (or you fail the course) and the vast majority get 4s-5s.

Colleges do see the AP profile of schools.

My kid got all 5s, reported them and did very well with T10/20s.

That is the most important.

If done correctly, we can replace transcript with AP scores. Honestly, transcripts from some high schools are watered down and could not be used meaningfully. National wide exams should replace transcript.

The next thing to do is to make AP exams much harder than they are right now. Instead of half or more getting 5s, there should be a cap on only 5% can get a score of 5.

You are suggesting we copy the British A Levels approach. That’s different than AP as everyone is taking the same tests (while APs offer more variability).

Again, the tests have to be free for all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It helps determine which schools have grade inflation.

Our private Catholic is rated very high and does well with college matriculation because the exams are required (or you fail the course) and the vast majority get 4s-5s.

Colleges do see the AP profile of schools.

My kid got all 5s, reported them and did very well with T10/20s.

That is the most important.

If done correctly, we can replace transcript with AP scores. Honestly, transcripts from some high schools are watered down and could not be used meaningfully. National wide exams should replace transcript.

The next thing to do is to make AP exams much harder than they are right now. Instead of half or more getting 5s, there should be a cap on only 5% can get a score of 5.

The only AP where half of test-takers get 5s is AP Chinese language, which is commonly taken by native speakers.

Many courses seem to be curved to around 15% of students scoring 5, which is a bog standard bell curve.

https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/about-ap-scores/score-distributions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It helps determine which schools have grade inflation.

Our private Catholic is rated very high and does well with college matriculation because the exams are required (or you fail the course) and the vast majority get 4s-5s.

Colleges do see the AP profile of schools.

My kid got all 5s, reported them and did very well with T10/20s.

That is the most important.

If done correctly, we can replace transcript with AP scores. Honestly, transcripts from some high schools are watered down and could not be used meaningfully. National wide exams should replace transcript.

The next thing to do is to make AP exams much harder than they are right now. Instead of half or more getting 5s, there should be a cap on only 5% can get a score of 5.

It's not just the curve, but the contents have to be much much harder as well. If these courses count as college credits, then the contents should correspond to college level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like the SAT, the AP tests have been completely watered down and are a lot less meaningful than they used to be. This is why private schools have stopped bothering.

I am so tired of hearing of these striver kids from Enloe or TJ or wherever who are takin 20 APs including 4 as a freshmen then end up getting rejected by Ivies and ending up at meh state schools.

I personally think they do more harm than good. I understand they are unfortunately a necessary evil to show a student is taking the most rigorous courses, but they are a waste of time. I would rather my kid take the core courses at the university they are going to than placing into super advanced classes with upperclassmen. Unless the goal is to graduate early, being in advanced classes doesn't get you anywhere.

But I digress...

I actually disagree, but I do concede that a lot of the "AP experience" depends on the school.

At my kid's "good public school" the AP classes are worthwhile for a highly capable kid, because the cohorts are stronger and the rigor is greater. The teachers are generally better, and the self-motivation and overall learning and exposure to other high achieving kids all happen in the AP classes. So while it's not about the test or "the 5" it IS about a fundamentally different classroom experience in an AP course. Which again, may not happen at all schools. But this has been the case at my kid's school and I am grateful for this (free!) opportunity, and for their capacity to engage with and get results on a rigorous track.

THIS - better teachers and students for these classes at our children's public

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It helps determine which schools have grade inflation.

Our private Catholic is rated very high and does well with college matriculation because the exams are required (or you fail the course) and the vast majority get 4s-5s.

Colleges do see the AP profile of schools.

My kid got all 5s, reported them and did very well with T10/20s.

It also shows which schools gatekeep AP courses. They aren’t open enrollment in private schools like in many public school districts. They won’t let you in unless you show you are prepared with As in previous level classes (usually honors). Even then, your kid might need to plead his case to be admitted to AP classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Students take AP test so they can transfer the credits to colleges. But AP classes are really watered down now, it is often suggested to a student to take the entry level class at colleges again instead of credit transfer. The material covered in an AP class corresponds to about two weeks of an entry level college course. The AP classes do a lot more harm than good to students by creating a false illusion of mastery.

You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about. I agree that there are less rigorous AP classes, Human Geography etc. Even for the difficult one like Calculus, Physics they teach about two thirds of an actual college class.

Be real here though, if they are good enough for MIT, they are good for whatever college your kid dreams of. Lets not pretend the classes at the privates are much better across the board.

[Anonymous]

The College Board has convinced people they they are the good guys as they siphon off millions from school districts for offering the AP courses. They don't need more of our money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like the SAT, the AP tests have been completely watered down and are a lot less meaningful than they used to be. This is why private schools have stopped bothering.

I am so tired of hearing of these striver kids from Enloe or TJ or wherever who are takin 20 APs including 4 as a freshmen then end up getting rejected by Ivies and ending up at meh state schools.

I personally think they do more harm than good. I understand they are unfortunately a necessary evil to show a student is taking the most rigorous courses, but they are a waste of time. I would rather my kid take the core courses at the university they are going to than placing into super advanced classes with upperclassmen. Unless the goal is to graduate early, being in advanced classes doesn't get you anywhere.

But I digress...

Many of these “striver” kids (as you call them) are brilliant students whose parents immigrants and don’t have enormous financial resources. There is no question they are more academically gifted than most private school kids. I am sure if they were students at your school, they would be top of the class there as well.

I know many of these kids and I am floored by their resilience, insights, knowledge, and sense of humor. I truly think your remarks are insulting and it breaks my heart that people disparage them so easily. You only see that they’re Asian or Indian and so you dismiss them. You have to respect your competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like the SAT, the AP tests have been completely watered down and are a lot less meaningful than they used to be. This is why private schools have stopped bothering.

I am so tired of hearing of these striver kids from Enloe or TJ or wherever who are takin 20 APs including 4 as a freshmen then end up getting rejected by Ivies and ending up at meh state schools.

I personally think they do more harm than good. I understand they are unfortunately a necessary evil to show a student is taking the most rigorous courses, but they are a waste of time. I would rather my kid take the core courses at the university they are going to than placing into super advanced classes with upperclassmen. Unless the goal is to graduate early, being in advanced classes doesn't get you anywhere.

But I digress...

I actually disagree, but I do concede that a lot of the "AP experience" depends on the school.

At my kid's "good public school" the AP classes are worthwhile for a highly capable kid, because the cohorts are stronger and the rigor is greater. The teachers are generally better, and the self-motivation and overall learning and exposure to other high achieving kids all happen in the AP classes. So while it's not about the test or "the 5" it IS about a fundamentally different classroom experience in an AP course. Which again, may not happen at all schools. But this has been the case at my kid's school and I am grateful for this (free!) opportunity, and for their capacity to engage with and get results on a rigorous track.

Fair point. I am 100% supportive of wanting to be in honors classes surrounded by other top students. But can't you have this outside of the construct of "AP"? I know the answer is that the AP normalizes things across schools and all of that, which I get in theory. But the recent obsession in piling up countless AP classes has truly gotten out of hand.

I think it is almost a signaling device at this point for a school not to feel compelled to offer dozens of AP classes. It is basically saying "we know we're good. Colleges know we're good. We don't need to play this dumb game." Some schools have started to cap the number of AP classes a kid can take.

I am also a bit more bitter about this as a parent of kids in the northeast where schools start late and end late, so students are at a major disadvantage with APs. Southern schools are tripping over themselves to start earlier and earlier, which has gotten out of hand. It is too bad they can't push the APs back to force these schools to revert to a more normal schedule. Meanwhile, northeastern kids have a month less of class to prepare.

Things should be standardized. We have really no metric which shows these private schools that completely reject standardized curriculum are teaching their students enough.