Why the push for accelerated math?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.

+1

IMO, anything beyond 1 year of acceleration (AKA algebra in 8th) should have a high bar of entry.

It did. You used to ahve to pass the SOL advanced and be in the 91st percentile on the IAAT to be considered for Algebra in 7th grade. This year they lowered the bar to passing advanced on the SOL only. That said, that still leaves a little more than 2,100 students eligible for Algebra in 7th grade, based on the last three school years SOL results. That is under half of the kids taking Advanced Math or in AAP. So about 10% of the 7th grade class is eligible to take Algebra. Given that the kids who do take Algebra in 7th grade all pass the SOL with a high percentage passing advanced, I would say that they have found a reasonable bar for entry.

Still way too many kids. It should be extremely rare. Or not offered at all.

Why are you so invested in holding back other people’s kids? So many kids thrive on the calculus in 11th or even in 20th grade path.

I’m not “invested”; we are all just throwing out opinions here.

Children would benefit from cutting off the arms race of math acceleration. Pick a reasonable amount of math to take before college and offer that. Otherwise we end up with the race to nowhere.

I’d say 1 year of calculus in HS is a good breaking point. Maybe 2 for truly exceptional kids.

Would children benefit from having their reading materials restricted to 2 years above grade level? If not, then why restrict math advancement? Why is math an “arms race,” when no one views English, music, and sports advancement as problematic?

One of my kids took AP Calc BC in 11th. One took it in 9th. Neither had any problems. Both were in exactly the correct level for them. Why should my kids be bored for a year or more just to make other kids look better?

Kids aren’t accelerating in English, science, etc by 2+ years.

Of course they are. AP Lang and Lit. AP Chem, Physics, and Bio.

So one year of "acceleration". That's reasonable.

AP classes are supposed to be intro level College classes, that is more than one year of acceleration. And there are multiple AP classes in each field, meaning that many kids are knocking out freshman year of college while in HS. What is the difference between a kid taking AP US History and AP world History and a kid taking AP Calc BS and Multivariate Calculus? Both are college level math classes, one is taught as DE.

Kids take AP World History instead of regular HS-level world history. They aren't really jumping ahead at all; they are swapping out one class for more advanced material.

Some amount of acceleration is great, but it has turned into a race to nowhere. Kids are racing through material without deep understanding. We should push for more challenging content and offer more enrichment activities instead of racing through concepts. Deeper instead of faster.

Enrichment activities in math are typically - with all due respect - dumb. The occasional word problem that really emphasizes a concept to make sure kids can work something out? Great. A project to teach a concept? Honestly really annoying to math-oriented kids usually. I should know; I went to TJ where we did that sort of thing all the time as well as accelerating.

This is different than enrichment activities in the humanities where deeper makes a difference. You can always connect literature to other literature. You can always learn more about a historical time period. For kids who love that stuff, it's great. In science you can always learn more about a topic as well, or do another actual hands-on experiment.

BS. There are tons of engaging, real-world practical problems that could be explored. Economics, engineering, physics, etc.

You think kids who haven't accelerated in math are ready for engineering and physics problems?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.

+1

IMO, anything beyond 1 year of acceleration (AKA algebra in 8th) should have a high bar of entry.

It did. You used to ahve to pass the SOL advanced and be in the 91st percentile on the IAAT to be considered for Algebra in 7th grade. This year they lowered the bar to passing advanced on the SOL only. That said, that still leaves a little more than 2,100 students eligible for Algebra in 7th grade, based on the last three school years SOL results. That is under half of the kids taking Advanced Math or in AAP. So about 10% of the 7th grade class is eligible to take Algebra. Given that the kids who do take Algebra in 7th grade all pass the SOL with a high percentage passing advanced, I would say that they have found a reasonable bar for entry.

Still way too many kids. It should be extremely rare. Or not offered at all.

Why are you so invested in holding back other people’s kids? So many kids thrive on the calculus in 11th or even in 20th grade path.

I’m not “invested”; we are all just throwing out opinions here.

Children would benefit from cutting off the arms race of math acceleration. Pick a reasonable amount of math to take before college and offer that. Otherwise we end up with the race to nowhere.

I’d say 1 year of calculus in HS is a good breaking point. Maybe 2 for truly exceptional kids.

Would children benefit from having their reading materials restricted to 2 years above grade level? If not, then why restrict math advancement? Why is math an “arms race,” when no one views English, music, and sports advancement as problematic?

One of my kids took AP Calc BC in 11th. One took it in 9th. Neither had any problems. Both were in exactly the correct level for them. Why should my kids be bored for a year or more just to make other kids look better?

Kids aren’t accelerating in English, science, etc by 2+ years.

Of course they are. AP Lang and Lit. AP Chem, Physics, and Bio.

So one year of "acceleration". That's reasonable.

AP classes are supposed to be intro level College classes, that is more than one year of acceleration. And there are multiple AP classes in each field, meaning that many kids are knocking out freshman year of college while in HS. What is the difference between a kid taking AP US History and AP world History and a kid taking AP Calc BS and Multivariate Calculus? Both are college level math classes, one is taught as DE.

Kids take AP World History instead of regular HS-level world history. They aren't really jumping ahead at all; they are swapping out one class for more advanced material.

Some amount of acceleration is great, but it has turned into a race to nowhere. Kids are racing through material without deep understanding. We should push for more challenging content and offer more enrichment activities instead of racing through concepts. Deeper instead of faster.

More advanced material is the definition of jumping ahead.

Taking AP World History isn't jumping ahead in course scheduling. HSs aren't offering increasingly accelerated history classes.

No, it actually is jumping ahead. It means that in college you can skip out on an introductory history class. How do you not know this? That's the definition of what an advanced placement course is - introductory college credit.

How many kids realistically place out of world history in college?

Anyway, the point was that high schools aren't offering increasingly accelerated history classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.

+1

IMO, anything beyond 1 year of acceleration (AKA algebra in 8th) should have a high bar of entry.

It did. You used to ahve to pass the SOL advanced and be in the 91st percentile on the IAAT to be considered for Algebra in 7th grade. This year they lowered the bar to passing advanced on the SOL only. That said, that still leaves a little more than 2,100 students eligible for Algebra in 7th grade, based on the last three school years SOL results. That is under half of the kids taking Advanced Math or in AAP. So about 10% of the 7th grade class is eligible to take Algebra. Given that the kids who do take Algebra in 7th grade all pass the SOL with a high percentage passing advanced, I would say that they have found a reasonable bar for entry.

Still way too many kids. It should be extremely rare. Or not offered at all.

Why are you so invested in holding back other people’s kids? So many kids thrive on the calculus in 11th or even in 20th grade path.

I’m not “invested”; we are all just throwing out opinions here.

Children would benefit from cutting off the arms race of math acceleration. Pick a reasonable amount of math to take before college and offer that. Otherwise we end up with the race to nowhere.

I’d say 1 year of calculus in HS is a good breaking point. Maybe 2 for truly exceptional kids.

Would children benefit from having their reading materials restricted to 2 years above grade level? If not, then why restrict math advancement? Why is math an “arms race,” when no one views English, music, and sports advancement as problematic?

One of my kids took AP Calc BC in 11th. One took it in 9th. Neither had any problems. Both were in exactly the correct level for them. Why should my kids be bored for a year or more just to make other kids look better?

Kids aren’t accelerating in English, science, etc by 2+ years.

Of course they are. AP Lang and Lit. AP Chem, Physics, and Bio.

So one year of "acceleration". That's reasonable.

AP classes are supposed to be intro level College classes, that is more than one year of acceleration. And there are multiple AP classes in each field, meaning that many kids are knocking out freshman year of college while in HS. What is the difference between a kid taking AP US History and AP world History and a kid taking AP Calc BS and Multivariate Calculus? Both are college level math classes, one is taught as DE.

Kids take AP World History instead of regular HS-level world history. They aren't really jumping ahead at all; they are swapping out one class for more advanced material.

Some amount of acceleration is great, but it has turned into a race to nowhere. Kids are racing through material without deep understanding. We should push for more challenging content and offer more enrichment activities instead of racing through concepts. Deeper instead of faster.

Enrichment activities in math are typically - with all due respect - dumb. The occasional word problem that really emphasizes a concept to make sure kids can work something out? Great. A project to teach a concept? Honestly really annoying to math-oriented kids usually. I should know; I went to TJ where we did that sort of thing all the time as well as accelerating.

This is different than enrichment activities in the humanities where deeper makes a difference. You can always connect literature to other literature. You can always learn more about a historical time period. For kids who love that stuff, it's great. In science you can always learn more about a topic as well, or do another actual hands-on experiment.

BS. There are tons of engaging, real-world practical problems that could be explored. Economics, engineering, physics, etc.

You think kids who haven't accelerated in math are ready for engineering and physics problems?

Yes, there are a wide variety of engineering and physics problems. Not all require advanced concepts.

Plus, I do think some acceleration is beneficial - a year of calculus in HS for kids heading into STEM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.

+1

IMO, anything beyond 1 year of acceleration (AKA algebra in 8th) should have a high bar of entry.

It did. You used to ahve to pass the SOL advanced and be in the 91st percentile on the IAAT to be considered for Algebra in 7th grade. This year they lowered the bar to passing advanced on the SOL only. That said, that still leaves a little more than 2,100 students eligible for Algebra in 7th grade, based on the last three school years SOL results. That is under half of the kids taking Advanced Math or in AAP. So about 10% of the 7th grade class is eligible to take Algebra. Given that the kids who do take Algebra in 7th grade all pass the SOL with a high percentage passing advanced, I would say that they have found a reasonable bar for entry.

Still way too many kids. It should be extremely rare. Or not offered at all.

Why are you so invested in holding back other people’s kids? So many kids thrive on the calculus in 11th or even in 20th grade path.

I’m not “invested”; we are all just throwing out opinions here.

Children would benefit from cutting off the arms race of math acceleration. Pick a reasonable amount of math to take before college and offer that. Otherwise we end up with the race to nowhere.

I’d say 1 year of calculus in HS is a good breaking point. Maybe 2 for truly exceptional kids.

Would children benefit from having their reading materials restricted to 2 years above grade level? If not, then why restrict math advancement? Why is math an “arms race,” when no one views English, music, and sports advancement as problematic?

One of my kids took AP Calc BC in 11th. One took it in 9th. Neither had any problems. Both were in exactly the correct level for them. Why should my kids be bored for a year or more just to make other kids look better?

Kids aren’t accelerating in English, science, etc by 2+ years.

Of course they are. AP Lang and Lit. AP Chem, Physics, and Bio.

So one year of "acceleration". That's reasonable.

AP classes are supposed to be intro level College classes, that is more than one year of acceleration. And there are multiple AP classes in each field, meaning that many kids are knocking out freshman year of college while in HS. What is the difference between a kid taking AP US History and AP world History and a kid taking AP Calc BS and Multivariate Calculus? Both are college level math classes, one is taught as DE.

Kids take AP World History instead of regular HS-level world history. They aren't really jumping ahead at all; they are swapping out one class for more advanced material.

Some amount of acceleration is great, but it has turned into a race to nowhere. Kids are racing through material without deep understanding. We should push for more challenging content and offer more enrichment activities instead of racing through concepts. Deeper instead of faster.

More advanced material is the definition of jumping ahead.

Taking AP World History isn't jumping ahead in course scheduling. HSs aren't offering increasingly accelerated history classes.

No, it actually is jumping ahead. It means that in college you can skip out on an introductory history class. How do you not know this? That's the definition of what an advanced placement course is - introductory college credit.

Last I checked, a High School student is not in college. Taking a class for college level credit is, by definition, skipping ahead or acceleration. So yes, taking AP classes is acceleration. That is the point of them. And there are kids who end up dual enrolled in languages, my kid attended a language immersion program in ES. He will end up with at least one DE language class after he takes the AP class in his Juinior year. Heck, more MS are allowing kids to start HS foreign language classes as 7th graders. There is no test or barrier to entry, any 7th grader can sign up for Spanish or French at our MS. They will finish the AP class as Juniors, is that a problem?

[Anonymous]

It appears that kids that take algebra in 7th do better on SOLs for algebra and every subsequent course than those that start the path in 8th and 9th. Seems like we aren’t accelerating enough.

[Anonymous]

My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It appears that kids that take algebra in 7th do better on SOLs for algebra and every subsequent course than those that start the path in 8th and 9th. Seems like we aren’t accelerating enough.

There's an obvious selection bias that leads to the higher scores. It's not that the acceleration causes the higher scores. It's that most of the kids most likely to get higher scores are placed into the class in 7th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

PP who wants to set up math tracks seems to think that kids who are perfectly capable of doing matrix multiplication (and mind you, matrix math underlies both modern communications and large language models aka AI) in high school should be stuck doing algebra based physics extensions because...reasons. PP has yet to answer the question "why limit acceleration."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It appears that kids that take algebra in 7th do better on SOLs for algebra and every subsequent course than those that start the path in 8th and 9th. Seems like we aren’t accelerating enough.

There's an obvious selection bias that leads to the higher scores. It's not that the acceleration causes the higher scores. It's that most of the kids most likely to get higher scores are placed into the class in 7th.

Obviously, but it doesn’t appear that the speed of their learning is affecting their comprehension and ability to exceed the state standard. Seems like acceleration suits them fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

PP who wants to set up math tracks seems to think that kids who are perfectly capable of doing matrix multiplication (and mind you, matrix math underlies both modern communications and large language models aka AI) in high school should be stuck doing algebra based physics extensions because...reasons. PP has yet to answer the question "why limit acceleration."

Because the increasing levels of acceleration are creating a toxic environment that doesn't provide a significant benefit for the vast majority of kids.

It's a race to nowhere. There is very little value in accelerating beyond a year (or two on a limited basis).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

PP who wants to set up math tracks seems to think that kids who are perfectly capable of doing matrix multiplication (and mind you, matrix math underlies both modern communications and large language models aka AI) in high school should be stuck doing algebra based physics extensions because...reasons. PP has yet to answer the question "why limit acceleration."

Because the increasing levels of acceleration are creating a toxic environment that doesn't provide a significant benefit for the vast majority of kids.

It's a race to nowhere. There is very little value in accelerating beyond a year (or two on a limited basis).

I think some people have a hard time accepting that there are always going to be smarter kids and more nurturing families. And it is a social issue for them, not an educational one.

Acceleration isn’t meant to benefit the vast majority of kids. Acceleration is meant to benefit those who need it and currently it’s about 10-15% of kids.

Algebra in 7th is such a low bar too.

Education isnt a race to nowhere; it’s an endless journey, but some just walk faster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

PP who wants to set up math tracks seems to think that kids who are perfectly capable of doing matrix multiplication (and mind you, matrix math underlies both modern communications and large language models aka AI) in high school should be stuck doing algebra based physics extensions because...reasons. PP has yet to answer the question "why limit acceleration."

Because the increasing levels of acceleration are creating a toxic environment that doesn't provide a significant benefit for the vast majority of kids.

It's a race to nowhere. There is very little value in accelerating beyond a year (or two on a limited basis).

There’s a lot of value for *my* kids. Maybe you should parent the kid you have and let other people make the best decisions they can for their kids.

[Anonymous]

Which schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th? So does that mean elementary school grades could possibly be going on the high school transcript?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid will take AP Lang, AP Lit, AP Seminar, and AP research. They also will have AP Government, AP European history, and AP USH. I’m not seeing a problem with doing multivariable also.

PP who wants to set up math tracks seems to think that kids who are perfectly capable of doing matrix multiplication (and mind you, matrix math underlies both modern communications and large language models aka AI) in high school should be stuck doing algebra based physics extensions because...reasons. PP has yet to answer the question "why limit acceleration."

Because the increasing levels of acceleration are creating a toxic environment that doesn't provide a significant benefit for the vast majority of kids.

It's a race to nowhere. There is very little value in accelerating beyond a year (or two on a limited basis).

I think some people have a hard time accepting that there are always going to be smarter kids and more nurturing families. And it is a social issue for them, not an educational one.

Acceleration isn’t meant to benefit the vast majority of kids. Acceleration is meant to benefit those who need it and currently it’s about 10-15% of kids.

Algebra in 7th is such a low bar too.

Education isnt a race to nowhere; it’s an endless journey, but some just walk faster.

Some acceleration is great. Having some calculus in HS is helpful.

10-15% is too large of a cohort for exceptionally gifted. It will include many bright kids who would have been just fine with algebra in 8th.

Limit the hyper acceleration to the truly gifted kids. There should be a very high bar for entry.

The unnecessary over-acceleration is the race to nowhere.

[Anonymous]

Algebra in 7th should not be called acceleration. It is the standard for many other countries.

Kids at that age can handle it, you don't need to be exceptionally gifted to learn algebra.

You do need to put in reasonable amount of effort though.