Why the push for accelerated math?

[Anonymous]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

[Anonymous]

Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

[Anonymous]

I was on that math track as a student. Note that in FCPS you get the Multivariable Calculus and Linear Algebra credit from GMU (not community college), which transferred easily for most people I knew back in the day. Same with kids who are even more accelerated and get Differential Equations and Complex Analysis credit.

- More credits going in as a freshmen in college = earlier course selection = more likely to get your preferred courses. Between APs and dual enrollment credit I came into college as a sophomore.

- I was a computer science major, and having that third year of calculus meant I barely needed to take any math in actual college for my major, freeing me up to either graduate early or take more fun classes.

- This is going to sound weird, but as a math person linear algebra and multivar are just fun classes to take. Linear in particular underlies large language models ("AI") as well as most modern communications technology.

For college applications there is a "most rigorous course load" check box your kids' college counselor can check. This math track certainly helps.

Does your kid absolutely need to take it? Not if they aren't a STEM person. But if they are, they really should.

And FWIW FCPS has mentioned over and over that the kids they identify as being ready to take Algebra 1 Honors in 7th do very well. Someone mentioned on the Frost/Woodson math thread in the main FCPS forum that 7th graders who take the course there average a 550 on the SOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

Would you prefer that, or the push that was coming from VDOE to collapse math tracks until 10th by having everyone not accelerate? I'd rather accelerate more kids, even at the risk of watering down the courses, as opposed to less.

But yes, ideally they would just keep open multiple tracks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

Bummed that this is just happening now. DS was ready for Algebra in 6th grade but we didn't push it because we didn't want him to take classes at the MS.

OP: Some kids are just good at math and enjoy it. Take a look at the SOL scores below for Algebra 1. My kid catches on to math concepts quickly and easily. We found math competitions in 4th grade and he has been happily taking math competition classes and working problems for them in his spare time. He loves the activity. Math is easy for him. Some kids love to read, my kids loves to do math. (shrugs)

The kids who are naturally strong at math tend to do well in math and find ES math to be boring. Advancing them in math at their ability level means that they are learning at their pace and not forced to just wait for more negaging math at an older age. They are able to handle a faster speed. Not all of them will continue on an accelerated path. Some will drop off in HS and take classes like Calc AB stats instead of more advanced math. And that is fine. Some might take 4 years of math, including their 2 in MS, and then use the extra periods for electives. Some go on and take the DE classes in high school.

I posted this in the Algebra 1 SOL topic in FCPS.

The average SOL score for Algebra 1 H in 7th grade for the past few years:

2023-2024: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 68%, Average score 526, Number of students 1,829
2022-2023: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 69%, Average score 521, Number of students 1,680
2021-2022: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 70%, Average score 527, Number of students 1,503

The average SOL score for Algebra 1 in 8th grade for the past few years:

2023-2024: Pass Rate was 95%, Passed Advanced rate 21%, Average score 466, Number of students 6,766
2022-2023: Pass Rate was 93%, Passed Advanced rate 23%, Average score 462, Number of students 6,635
2021-2022: Pass Rate was 94%, Passed Advanced rate 22%, Average score 461, Number of students 6,045

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Know that you don't have to accelerate your kid. About half the kids in my sons Advanced Math class choose Math 7H instead of Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. They had the choice and decided that they did not need that type of acceleration. In some cases, the kid just didn't want to take Algebra 1 and the parents relented. In other cases, the parents thought it was unnecessary and choose not to place their kid in Algebra. Some looked down the line and decided that their kid didn't need to be taking DE math classes in HS. It is an individual choice.

[Anonymous]

If your kid got the scores for Algebra I, and the teacher is recommending it, then your child has already mastered the material for Math 7H. You can still opt to place him there, but it's going to be a super easy class for him, where he spends most of his time twiddling his thumbs and waiting for other kids to grasp the material.

The Calc in 11th track is a great choice. If your kid is STEM oriented, then taking a year of post-AP Calc is ideal. If they're not STEM oriented, then they can take AP Stats without having to sacrifice an elective slot.

[Anonymous]

I look at Algebra in 7th as only one year ahead. I took Algebra in 8th about 35 years ago. Many people did. Ended up in Calculus my senior year. My daughter *really* wanted to do Algebra in 7th and actually studied with a friend for the Iowa (I think they found stuff on youtube and they reviewed some math basics) and for the SOL in order to meet the requirements. Then she made a pro con list and I left the final decision up to her. I was leaning heavily toward Math 7H as I just didn't want her taking IB math as a sophomore but then realized that she really is only slightly ahead of where I was at her age so I think she can do it and am trying not to worry too much about it.

With the push for Algebra for all by 8th, Algebra in 7th will become the new norm for the advanced kids.

[Anonymous]

I personally think it’s nuts and that there are far fewer kids truly prepared for that level of advancement than those who get it in this area. Both my kids were on that track, then ds faltered in 7th grade algebra and I had him repeat it in 8th and pulled his younger sister off that track as well. They’re both on track to do calculus as HS seniors and I think that’s fine. They’re not gunning for MIT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

As an Algebra teacher to 8th graders who are incredibly ill prepared when coming straight from Math 7, I fully support Math 7H as being the only option in 7th grade. If you're going to push kids into Algebra in 8th, you've got to shift every grade below it to build up to that. This is where FCPS has failed in their Algebra for All initiative. They have simply told the middle schools "get your numbers up" but not done anything to actually support the kids being READY to take Algebra by 8th.

[Anonymous]

I mean why not? Why should advanced kids just sit there and twiddle their thumbs when they too can be challenged?

I think the big, albeit unsaid, reason is peer group. As a kid I went to a big intercity school. Regular classes were cesspits of fighting, drugs and kids who didn't care. I think more and more schools are like this now as discipline lessens (hopefully very few as bad as the one I went to). I was so thrilled to be moved to advanced classes where I wasn't bullied and picked on. I'm a small female and no way could I win a fight so I always stayed quiet. I enjoyed having classmates who liked school.

[Anonymous]

I absolutely agree, and my oldest decided to do algebra in 8th, which was great for her.

My middle will do it in 7th because that’s what she wants to do. In the end I think she might do science, and it will give her the opportunity to take more science “electives” or another year of advanced math (or to take statistics, which is most important for science).

I don’t think there is value in pushing kids. I have long told them that you can take math forever, there is no need to rush.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

As a low-income family, we saved money by taking those courses for free in public high school, which meant we didn’t have to pay for them in college. It also showed colleges that there are high-achieving students from low-income backgrounds who deserve admission based on merit—not just financial need or skin color.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

Bummed that this is just happening now. DS was ready for Algebra in 6th grade but we didn't push it because we didn't want him to take classes at the MS.

OP: Some kids are just good at math and enjoy it. Take a look at the SOL scores below for Algebra 1. My kid catches on to math concepts quickly and easily. We found math competitions in 4th grade and he has been happily taking math competition classes and working problems for them in his spare time. He loves the activity. Math is easy for him. Some kids love to read, my kids loves to do math. (shrugs)

The kids who are naturally strong at math tend to do well in math and find ES math to be boring. Advancing them in math at their ability level means that they are learning at their pace and not forced to just wait for more negaging math at an older age. They are able to handle a faster speed. Not all of them will continue on an accelerated path. Some will drop off in HS and take classes like Calc AB stats instead of more advanced math. And that is fine. Some might take 4 years of math, including their 2 in MS, and then use the extra periods for electives. Some go on and take the DE classes in high school.

I posted this in the Algebra 1 SOL topic in FCPS.

The average SOL score for Algebra 1 H in 7th grade for the past few years:

2023-2024: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 68%, Average score 526, Number of students 1,829
2022-2023: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 69%, Average score 521, Number of students 1,680
2021-2022: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 70%, Average score 527, Number of students 1,503

The average SOL score for Algebra 1 in 8th grade for the past few years:

2023-2024: Pass Rate was 95%, Passed Advanced rate 21%, Average score 466, Number of students 6,766
2022-2023: Pass Rate was 93%, Passed Advanced rate 23%, Average score 462, Number of students 6,635
2021-2022: Pass Rate was 94%, Passed Advanced rate 22%, Average score 461, Number of students 6,045

You are missing a critical piece of info in your quick to display statistics. There are many kids who start out in Algebra 1 and begin to falter and fail. These kids are yanked after Q1 or Q2, and so on and placed in Math 7 H midstream in the year. They weed out any faltering kids in Algebra 1 in 7th grade long before the final SOL. That’s how they achieve those high pass rates. There are many ‘outside’ trained, supplemented, and tutored kids in that subset of the student population, so this isn’t a true reflection of FCPS education at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.