Why the push for accelerated math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.

+1

IMO, anything beyond 1 year of acceleration (AKA algebra in 8th) should have a high bar of entry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

Bummed that this is just happening now. DS was ready for Algebra in 6th grade but we didn't push it because we didn't want him to take classes at the MS.

OP: Some kids are just good at math and enjoy it. Take a look at the SOL scores below for Algebra 1. My kid catches on to math concepts quickly and easily. We found math competitions in 4th grade and he has been happily taking math competition classes and working problems for them in his spare time. He loves the activity. Math is easy for him. Some kids love to read, my kids loves to do math. (shrugs)

The kids who are naturally strong at math tend to do well in math and find ES math to be boring. Advancing them in math at their ability level means that they are learning at their pace and not forced to just wait for more negaging math at an older age. They are able to handle a faster speed. Not all of them will continue on an accelerated path. Some will drop off in HS and take classes like Calc AB stats instead of more advanced math. And that is fine. Some might take 4 years of math, including their 2 in MS, and then use the extra periods for electives. Some go on and take the DE classes in high school.

I posted this in the Algebra 1 SOL topic in FCPS.

The average SOL score for Algebra 1 H in 7th grade for the past few years:

2023-2024: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 68%, Average score 526, Number of students 1,829
2022-2023: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 69%, Average score 521, Number of students 1,680
2021-2022: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 70%, Average score 527, Number of students 1,503

The average SOL score for Algebra 1 in 8th grade for the past few years:

2023-2024: Pass Rate was 95%, Passed Advanced rate 21%, Average score 466, Number of students 6,766
2022-2023: Pass Rate was 93%, Passed Advanced rate 23%, Average score 462, Number of students 6,635
2021-2022: Pass Rate was 94%, Passed Advanced rate 22%, Average score 461, Number of students 6,045

You are missing a critical piece of info in your quick to display statistics. There are many kids who start out in Algebra 1 and begin to falter and fail. These kids are yanked after Q1 or Q2, and so on and placed in Math 7 H midstream in the year. They weed out any faltering kids in Algebra 1 in 7th grade long before the final SOL. That’s how they achieve those high pass rates. There are many ‘outside’ trained, supplemented, and tutored kids in that subset of the student population, so this isn’t a true reflection of FCPS education at all.

Many? I doubt it. Some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.

+1

IMO, anything beyond 1 year of acceleration (AKA algebra in 8th) should have a high bar of entry.

Impacts low-income families negatively. Others generally find ways to accelerate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

Bummed that this is just happening now. DS was ready for Algebra in 6th grade but we didn't push it because we didn't want him to take classes at the MS.

OP: Some kids are just good at math and enjoy it. Take a look at the SOL scores below for Algebra 1. My kid catches on to math concepts quickly and easily. We found math competitions in 4th grade and he has been happily taking math competition classes and working problems for them in his spare time. He loves the activity. Math is easy for him. Some kids love to read, my kids loves to do math. (shrugs)

The kids who are naturally strong at math tend to do well in math and find ES math to be boring. Advancing them in math at their ability level means that they are learning at their pace and not forced to just wait for more negaging math at an older age. They are able to handle a faster speed. Not all of them will continue on an accelerated path. Some will drop off in HS and take classes like Calc AB stats instead of more advanced math. And that is fine. Some might take 4 years of math, including their 2 in MS, and then use the extra periods for electives. Some go on and take the DE classes in high school.

I posted this in the Algebra 1 SOL topic in FCPS.

The average SOL score for Algebra 1 H in 7th grade for the past few years:

2023-2024: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 68%, Average score 526, Number of students 1,829
2022-2023: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 69%, Average score 521, Number of students 1,680
2021-2022: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 70%, Average score 527, Number of students 1,503

The average SOL score for Algebra 1 in 8th grade for the past few years:

2023-2024: Pass Rate was 95%, Passed Advanced rate 21%, Average score 466, Number of students 6,766
2022-2023: Pass Rate was 93%, Passed Advanced rate 23%, Average score 462, Number of students 6,635
2021-2022: Pass Rate was 94%, Passed Advanced rate 22%, Average score 461, Number of students 6,045

You are missing a critical piece of info in your quick to display statistics. There are many kids who start out in Algebra 1 and begin to falter and fail. These kids are yanked after Q1 or Q2, and so on and placed in Math 7 H midstream in the year. They weed out any faltering kids in Algebra 1 in 7th grade long before the final SOL. That’s how they achieve those high pass rates. There are many ‘outside’ trained, supplemented, and tutored kids in that subset of the student population, so this isn’t a true reflection of FCPS education at all.

We are low-income and dont use outside tutors, just plain old workbooks but disciplined study time after school, and accelerated due to student's own interest and ability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.

But low-income families save money on college tuition by taking Calculus I and II in high school. It appears you have a problem with low-income families taking advantage of free public school resources?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

Bummed that this is just happening now. DS was ready for Algebra in 6th grade but we didn't push it because we didn't want him to take classes at the MS.

OP: Some kids are just good at math and enjoy it. Take a look at the SOL scores below for Algebra 1. My kid catches on to math concepts quickly and easily. We found math competitions in 4th grade and he has been happily taking math competition classes and working problems for them in his spare time. He loves the activity. Math is easy for him. Some kids love to read, my kids loves to do math. (shrugs)

The kids who are naturally strong at math tend to do well in math and find ES math to be boring. Advancing them in math at their ability level means that they are learning at their pace and not forced to just wait for more negaging math at an older age. They are able to handle a faster speed. Not all of them will continue on an accelerated path. Some will drop off in HS and take classes like Calc AB stats instead of more advanced math. And that is fine. Some might take 4 years of math, including their 2 in MS, and then use the extra periods for electives. Some go on and take the DE classes in high school.

I posted this in the Algebra 1 SOL topic in FCPS.

The average SOL score for Algebra 1 H in 7th grade for the past few years:

2023-2024: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 68%, Average score 526, Number of students 1,829
2022-2023: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 69%, Average score 521, Number of students 1,680
2021-2022: Pass Rate was 100%, Passed Advanced rate 70%, Average score 527, Number of students 1,503

The average SOL score for Algebra 1 in 8th grade for the past few years:

2023-2024: Pass Rate was 95%, Passed Advanced rate 21%, Average score 466, Number of students 6,766
2022-2023: Pass Rate was 93%, Passed Advanced rate 23%, Average score 462, Number of students 6,635
2021-2022: Pass Rate was 94%, Passed Advanced rate 22%, Average score 461, Number of students 6,045

You are missing a critical piece of info in your quick to display statistics. There are many kids who start out in Algebra 1 and begin to falter and fail. These kids are yanked after Q1 or Q2, and so on and placed in Math 7 H midstream in the year. They weed out any faltering kids in Algebra 1 in 7th grade long before the final SOL. That’s how they achieve those high pass rates. There are many ‘outside’ trained, supplemented, and tutored kids in that subset of the student population, so this isn’t a true reflection of FCPS education at all.

I know that some kids drop to Math 7H from Algebra 1 H in 7th grade. I ran last year's Grade 6 who took the 7th grade SOL scores. 4,487 sixth grades took the Math 7 SOL. 2,121 sixth graders, 47%, meet one of the two thresholds to take Algebra 1H in 7th grade. A total of 1,829 7th graders took the Algebra 1 SOL this year.

That leaves 458 kids who passed the SOL threshold, but we don't know what they choose to do.

1) Some percentage of that group did not hit the IAAT threshold and took Math 7H.
2) Some percentage choose Math 7H over Algebra 1.
3) Some percentage choose Algebra 1H but realized it was too much for them and dropped back to Math 7H.
4) Some of the kids who completed Algebra 1 H this year will expunge their grade and take Algebra 1 again as 8th graders.

The kids who continued on, all passed the Algebra 1 SOL with the majority passing advanced. Personally, I think that it is a good thing that some kids switch to Math 7H. It is ok to try something and see that it is not working. I would be surprised to find that the percentage who moved from Algebra to Math 7H was higher than 5%. I know kids who choose Math 7H over Algebra 1 because they don't find math enjoyable, even if they are good at it, and their parents didn't see the need for their kids to take Calculus before 12th grade. We also know kids who didn't make the IAAT cut off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

As an Algebra teacher to 8th graders who are incredibly ill prepared when coming straight from Math 7, I fully support Math 7H as being the only option in 7th grade. If you're going to push kids into Algebra in 8th, you've got to shift every grade below it to build up to that. This is where FCPS has failed in their Algebra for All initiative. They have simply told the middle schools "get your numbers up" but not done anything to actually support the kids being READY to take Algebra by 8th.

This. They should be putting in more supports in ES. We are losing our math resource teacher this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.

+1

IMO, anything beyond 1 year of acceleration (AKA algebra in 8th) should have a high bar of entry.

It did. You used to ahve to pass the SOL advanced and be in the 91st percentile on the IAAT to be considered for Algebra in 7th grade. This year they lowered the bar to passing advanced on the SOL only. That said, that still leaves a little more than 2,100 students eligible for Algebra in 7th grade, based on the last three school years SOL results. That is under half of the kids taking Advanced Math or in AAP. So about 10% of the 7th grade class is eligible to take Algebra. Given that the kids who do take Algebra in 7th grade all pass the SOL with a high percentage passing advanced, I would say that they have found a reasonable bar for entry.

[Anonymous]

I never will get this attitude. Yes, you can learn these things when you're older. But the more time you have with math concepts, the more they become a part of you. You use them organically, naturally, as part of your reasoning process. And yes, this means introducing a lot of things younger than we usually do.

For some reason people are willing to grasp this concept in language and music education, but for whatever reason they think of math as the exception.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh it gets worse. 27 schools are piloting algebra 1 in 6th grade next year. Multiple middle schools are doing honors math for all (no more math 7, math 7 honors is the lowest option in 7th grade).

As an Algebra teacher to 8th graders who are incredibly ill prepared when coming straight from Math 7, I fully support Math 7H as being the only option in 7th grade. If you're going to push kids into Algebra in 8th, you've got to shift every grade below it to build up to that. This is where FCPS has failed in their Algebra for All initiative. They have simply told the middle schools "get your numbers up" but not done anything to actually support the kids being READY to take Algebra by 8th.

+1 It makes little sense that both Grade 7 and Grade 7H both funnel directly to Algebra1 or Algebra1H. The Grade 7H kids have both Grade 7 and Grade 8 topics under their belts. They are better prepared. There is no way around this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.

+1

IMO, anything beyond 1 year of acceleration (AKA algebra in 8th) should have a high bar of entry.

Impacts low-income families negatively. Others generally find ways to accelerate

Why do you want to hold other people's kids back? Do you think they will make your kid feel dumb for not qualifying for Algebra earlier? Just imagine what would happen if all those smarter kids were visibly bored in the same class with your kid while they were struggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I personally think it’s nuts and that there are far fewer kids truly prepared for that level of advancement than those who get it in this area. Both my kids were on that track, then ds faltered in 7th grade algebra and I had him repeat it in 8th and pulled his younger sister off that track as well. They’re both on track to do calculus as HS seniors and I think that’s fine. They’re not gunning for MIT.

Go read how difficult it is to get into UVA and VT these days. Kids who like math and are good at it should be allowed to take more advanced classes. It's one way they can stand out in the sea of nova applicants. Other kids can focus on their favorite subjects or priorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.

+1

IMO, anything beyond 1 year of acceleration (AKA algebra in 8th) should have a high bar of entry.

It did. You used to ahve to pass the SOL advanced and be in the 91st percentile on the IAAT to be considered for Algebra in 7th grade. This year they lowered the bar to passing advanced on the SOL only. That said, that still leaves a little more than 2,100 students eligible for Algebra in 7th grade, based on the last three school years SOL results. That is under half of the kids taking Advanced Math or in AAP. So about 10% of the 7th grade class is eligible to take Algebra. Given that the kids who do take Algebra in 7th grade all pass the SOL with a high percentage passing advanced, I would say that they have found a reasonable bar for entry.

Still way too many kids. It should be extremely rare. Or not offered at all.

[Anonymous]

Most engineering students enter freshman year with 1 or 2 years of calculus from high school. They may re-take calculus in college for reinforcement, but that class will be easier because they've already been exposed to the concept. Or they can not re-take the classes and go on to take higher level maths required for their majors and have more time to take elective classes, pursue a minor, etc.

The US is falling behind the rest of the world when it comes to math achievement in K-12, why not accelerate the kids if they're ready? I took Algebra I in 7th grade 30 years ago in a rural district in flyover America, your kid can do this, it's not too advanced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like I'm taking crazy pills and I'm not sure if I'm just caught up in the Northern Virginia mindset.

Our child scored well on both the Iowa and the SOL and their teacher recommends they take out for one next year in seventh grade. I'm sitting here wondering why?

I completely understand why it's beneficial for some maybe even the majority of kids to take calculus in their senior year. But how many kids are really going to benefit from taking 2 years of calculus?

So I guess my question is what's the point? Aside for taking an extra year of college math in high school, why do it?

So far I come up with it. Might look better on college applications, make college classes either easier or something you can get credit for while in HS.

I have this underlying fear that they are going to push anyone who scores well into algebra 1, so there are less kids in 7th grade honors. That allows for smaller classes and helps with the goal of Algebra for all by grade 8

Yes, it’s the race to no where. Many students take Calculus 1 at universities—it’s still taught there.

+1

IMO, anything beyond 1 year of acceleration (AKA algebra in 8th) should have a high bar of entry.

It did. You used to ahve to pass the SOL advanced and be in the 91st percentile on the IAAT to be considered for Algebra in 7th grade. This year they lowered the bar to passing advanced on the SOL only. That said, that still leaves a little more than 2,100 students eligible for Algebra in 7th grade, based on the last three school years SOL results. That is under half of the kids taking Advanced Math or in AAP. So about 10% of the 7th grade class is eligible to take Algebra. Given that the kids who do take Algebra in 7th grade all pass the SOL with a high percentage passing advanced, I would say that they have found a reasonable bar for entry.

Still way too many kids. It should be extremely rare. Or not offered at all.

To what purpose? I have one kid on that track and 2 kids who won't be. Just because 2 of my kids don't need that level of acceleration doesn't mean it isn't very important/valuable for my one who is currently in Algebra 1 H in 7th.