Governor Moore vetoes bill to study reparations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given today’s political climate, I think it’s hilarious that we are even having this discussion. We are lucky our democracy stays intact. Read.the.room. We are so far from reparations.

Calling reparations “hilarious” just shows what your personal prefrences are, that's all, just like any name-calling session. Now, if you honestly just don’t care about reparations and/or or think African Americans should just “get over” slavery, that’s your right, but your personal boredom on the matter doesn’t the U.S. can not plan to do what is right, whether you care our not. "Democracy", as you are so so concerned about, stays healthy when we dig into unfinished business, not when we act like it’s too messy. Think about it, the Civil Rights movement happened in the 60s, a rough time for our country, we can do big things in the current rough time for our country.

Never gonna happen. And all these efforts do is make things worse for all parties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given today’s political climate, I think it’s hilarious that we are even having this discussion. We are lucky our democracy stays intact. Read.the.room. We are so far from reparations.

Calling reparations “hilarious” just shows what your personal prefrences are, that's all, just like any name-calling session. Now, if you honestly just don’t care about reparations and/or or think African Americans should just “get over” slavery, that’s your right, but your personal boredom on the matter doesn’t the U.S. can not plan to do what is right, whether you care our not. "Democracy", as you are so so concerned about, stays healthy when we dig into unfinished business, not when we act like it’s too messy. Think about it, the Civil Rights movement happened in the 60s, a rough time for our country, we can do big things in the current rough time for our country.

What's strange is that Democrats are desperate for you to forget waht might have been happening in the last four years and any investigations into that recent history are "pointless." Yet, we have something from 180 years ago that needs a closer look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given today’s political climate, I think it’s hilarious that we are even having this discussion. We are lucky our democracy stays intact. Read.the.room. We are so far from reparations.

Calling reparations “hilarious” just shows what your personal prefrences are, that's all, just like any name-calling session. Now, if you honestly just don’t care about reparations and/or or think African Americans should just “get over” slavery, that’s your right, but your personal boredom on the matter doesn’t the U.S. can not plan to do what is right, whether you care our not. "Democracy", as you are so so concerned about, stays healthy when we dig into unfinished business, not when we act like it’s too messy. Think about it, the Civil Rights movement happened in the 60s, a rough time for our country, we can do big things in the current rough time for our country.

The "big things" you want are reparations? Trying to figure out who's descendants of slaves and how much money to pay them? Then having the Supreme Court say that it is all illegal? I guess if your definition of "big things" is things that will go nowhere and that will make sure Republicans stay in power for even longer, then yes, reparations meet that test.

[Anonymous]

You consider the consequences of slavery as “unfinished business”. It will always be unfinished business in some people’s eyes.
There will always be discrimination and hate. Despite all the advancements of many black people and support continuously being provided at some point you have to realize that this vicious cycle will never end. How are reparations going to change anything?
We can’t erase history and you can’t control hate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slavery was an unquestionable evil. Unfortunately, far too much time and life events have transpired to ever be able to serve justice to either those victims who deserved restitution or to the perpetrators who weren’t held accountable for their crimes. Between waves of immigration bringing multitudes into our country generations after slavery was a memory, intermarriage blurring the distinction between races, and the loss of memory over time as to what roles our ancestors who were here may have had at the time, there is no way to untangle the messiness of life and accurately portion debt or recompense owed.

At this time, reparations can only serve to create resentment to fuel racism further. Let’s help people, regardless of race, based on need. There are lots of ways that individuals, by accident of birth rather than any actions of their own, have been disadvantaged. No one gets to choose their families.

Meanwhile, this seems a particularly absurd and hypocritical time to be talking about reparations. Our government, representing us, is currently “deporting” immigrants without any semblance of due process, let alone a trial and conviction, to a lifetime sentence in foreign prisons known for their brutality. The fact that the harsh conditions and brutality are taking place outside our borders does not absolve us of responsibility. OUR NATION IS CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN HUMAN TRAFFICKING. INSTEAD OF ARGUING ABOUT THE REPARATIONS WE OWE EACH OTHER BASED ON DEBTS FROM/TO OUR ANCESTORS, WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON HALTING THE CURRENT INJUSTICE AND THE REPARATIONS WE MAY ALL EVENTUALLY OWE TO THOSE WE CURRENTLY ALLOW TO BE WRONGED.

I think the greatest debt owed to the past is to not repeat the evil that once took place, but to act responsibly in the present and to teach future generations by both word and example, so that it can never be allowed to recur.

Your post is offensive because you treat slavery and its aftermath as a distant, untraceable mess rather than a continuing, well-documented injustice with living descendants. You also imply the harms are unrecorded and unknowable, even though enslaved people appear in censuses, bills of sale, probate files, and plantation journals, and later injustices, such as red-lining and GI Bill exclusions, were thoroughly documented. When you say things like “people moved here and races mixed, so it is hard to know who is responsible,” you ignore how wealth taken from enslaved labor was passed down through land titles, business assets, and public investments that still advantage white institutions and heirs today. You focus more on how complicated it would be than on doing what is right, suggesting reparations should be abandoned because the whole matter is inconvenient and “messy,” which tells a community that endured forced labor, legal segregation, and ongoing harm that their injury does not matter enough to fix.

The reality is that reparations is never going to happen. There is no political will to do this in the US and any politician that campaigns on this issue will not win elections. If you want to reduce the racial wealth gap, campaign on race- neutral policies that benefit low-income and middle-class households which are broadly popular. Any policy that disproportionately supports wealth
accumulation for low-income households will reduce the racial wealth gap by design without explicitly considering race. Eg. Baby bonds for low-income households, refundable tax credit for retirement accounts contributions (limited to low income households).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slavery was an unquestionable evil. Unfortunately, far too much time and life events have transpired to ever be able to serve justice to either those victims who deserved restitution or to the perpetrators who weren’t held accountable for their crimes. Between waves of immigration bringing multitudes into our country generations after slavery was a memory, intermarriage blurring the distinction between races, and the loss of memory over time as to what roles our ancestors who were here may have had at the time, there is no way to untangle the messiness of life and accurately portion debt or recompense owed.

At this time, reparations can only serve to create resentment to fuel racism further. Let’s help people, regardless of race, based on need. There are lots of ways that individuals, by accident of birth rather than any actions of their own, have been disadvantaged. No one gets to choose their families.

Meanwhile, this seems a particularly absurd and hypocritical time to be talking about reparations. Our government, representing us, is currently “deporting” immigrants without any semblance of due process, let alone a trial and conviction, to a lifetime sentence in foreign prisons known for their brutality. The fact that the harsh conditions and brutality are taking place outside our borders does not absolve us of responsibility. OUR NATION IS CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN HUMAN TRAFFICKING. INSTEAD OF ARGUING ABOUT THE REPARATIONS WE OWE EACH OTHER BASED ON DEBTS FROM/TO OUR ANCESTORS, WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON HALTING THE CURRENT INJUSTICE AND THE REPARATIONS WE MAY ALL EVENTUALLY OWE TO THOSE WE CURRENTLY ALLOW TO BE WRONGED.

I think the greatest debt owed to the past is to not repeat the evil that once took place, but to act responsibly in the present and to teach future generations by both word and example, so that it can never be allowed to recur.

Your post is offensive because you treat slavery and its aftermath as a distant, untraceable mess rather than a continuing, well-documented injustice with living descendants. You also imply the harms are unrecorded and unknowable, even though enslaved people appear in censuses, bills of sale, probate files, and plantation journals, and later injustices, such as red-lining and GI Bill exclusions, were thoroughly documented. When you say things like “people moved here and races mixed, so it is hard to know who is responsible,” you ignore how wealth taken from enslaved labor was passed down through land titles, business assets, and public investments that still advantage white institutions and heirs today. You focus more on how complicated it would be than on doing what is right, suggesting reparations should be abandoned because the whole matter is inconvenient and “messy,” which tells a community that endured forced labor, legal segregation, and ongoing harm that their injury does not matter enough to fix.

The reality is that reparations is never going to happen. There is no political will to do this in the US and any politician that campaigns on this issue will not win elections. If you want to reduce the racial wealth gap, campaign on race- neutral policies that benefit low-income and middle-class households which are broadly popular. Any policy that disproportionately supports wealth
accumulation for low-income households will reduce the racial wealth gap by design without explicitly considering race. Eg. Baby bonds for low-income households, refundable tax credit for retirement accounts contributions (limited to low income households).

Native Americans are the highest in terms of poverty. https://www.povertyusa.org/facts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slavery was an unquestionable evil. Unfortunately, far too much time and life events have transpired to ever be able to serve justice to either those victims who deserved restitution or to the perpetrators who weren’t held accountable for their crimes. Between waves of immigration bringing multitudes into our country generations after slavery was a memory, intermarriage blurring the distinction between races, and the loss of memory over time as to what roles our ancestors who were here may have had at the time, there is no way to untangle the messiness of life and accurately portion debt or recompense owed.

At this time, reparations can only serve to create resentment to fuel racism further. Let’s help people, regardless of race, based on need. There are lots of ways that individuals, by accident of birth rather than any actions of their own, have been disadvantaged. No one gets to choose their families.

Meanwhile, this seems a particularly absurd and hypocritical time to be talking about reparations. Our government, representing us, is currently “deporting” immigrants without any semblance of due process, let alone a trial and conviction, to a lifetime sentence in foreign prisons known for their brutality. The fact that the harsh conditions and brutality are taking place outside our borders does not absolve us of responsibility. OUR NATION IS CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN HUMAN TRAFFICKING. INSTEAD OF ARGUING ABOUT THE REPARATIONS WE OWE EACH OTHER BASED ON DEBTS FROM/TO OUR ANCESTORS, WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON HALTING THE CURRENT INJUSTICE AND THE REPARATIONS WE MAY ALL EVENTUALLY OWE TO THOSE WE CURRENTLY ALLOW TO BE WRONGED.

I think the greatest debt owed to the past is to not repeat the evil that once took place, but to act responsibly in the present and to teach future generations by both word and example, so that it can never be allowed to recur.

Your post is offensive because you treat slavery and its aftermath as a distant, untraceable mess rather than a continuing, well-documented injustice with living descendants. You also imply the harms are unrecorded and unknowable, even though enslaved people appear in censuses, bills of sale, probate files, and plantation journals, and later injustices, such as red-lining and GI Bill exclusions, were thoroughly documented. When you say things like “people moved here and races mixed, so it is hard to know who is responsible,” you ignore how wealth taken from enslaved labor was passed down through land titles, business assets, and public investments that still advantage white institutions and heirs today. You focus more on how complicated it would be than on doing what is right, suggesting reparations should be abandoned because the whole matter is inconvenient and “messy,” which tells a community that endured forced labor, legal segregation, and ongoing harm that their injury does not matter enough to fix.

The reality is that reparations is never going to happen. There is no political will to do this in the US and any politician that campaigns on this issue will not win elections. If you want to reduce the racial wealth gap, campaign on race- neutral policies that benefit low-income and middle-class households which are broadly popular. Any policy that disproportionately supports wealth
accumulation for low-income households will reduce the racial wealth gap by design without explicitly considering race. Eg. Baby bonds for low-income households, refundable tax credit for retirement accounts contributions (limited to low income households).

Native Americans are the highest in terms of poverty. https://www.povertyusa.org/facts

So, they would benefit. Is that a problem? I thought they were the I in BIPOC. Are they supposed to be second in line behind the B?

[Anonymous]

The US could pay out reparations for Jim Crow. My father was forced to go segregated schools and wasn’t allowed to enroll at our state’s land grant institution. He’s still alive. I’m so sick of the argument that this was all a long time ago. No, it wasn’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The US could pay out reparations for Jim Crow. My father was forced to go segregated schools and wasn’t allowed to enroll at our state’s land grant institution. He’s still alive. I’m so sick of the argument that this was all a long time ago. No, it wasn’t.

The reparations for Jim Crow were various affirmative action programs and government set-asides; blacks were given preference for jobs, university admissions, scholarships, government contracting opportunities, and many other programs. They were in place for many decades and survived numerous legal challenges during that time. But our Supreme Court has said that they can no longer be justified and are now illegal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US could pay out reparations for Jim Crow. My father was forced to go segregated schools and wasn’t allowed to enroll at our state’s land grant institution. He’s still alive. I’m so sick of the argument that this was all a long time ago. No, it wasn’t.

The reparations for Jim Crow were various affirmative action programs and government set-asides; blacks were given preference for jobs, university admissions, scholarships, government contracting opportunities, and many other programs. They were in place for many decades and survived numerous legal challenges during that time. But our Supreme Court has said that they can no longer be justified and are now illegal.

Oh, well then I guess everything is fine then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slavery was an unquestionable evil. Unfortunately, far too much time and life events have transpired to ever be able to serve justice to either those victims who deserved restitution or to the perpetrators who weren’t held accountable for their crimes. Between waves of immigration bringing multitudes into our country generations after slavery was a memory, intermarriage blurring the distinction between races, and the loss of memory over time as to what roles our ancestors who were here may have had at the time, there is no way to untangle the messiness of life and accurately portion debt or recompense owed.

At this time, reparations can only serve to create resentment to fuel racism further. Let’s help people, regardless of race, based on need. There are lots of ways that individuals, by accident of birth rather than any actions of their own, have been disadvantaged. No one gets to choose their families.

Meanwhile, this seems a particularly absurd and hypocritical time to be talking about reparations. Our government, representing us, is currently “deporting” immigrants without any semblance of due process, let alone a trial and conviction, to a lifetime sentence in foreign prisons known for their brutality. The fact that the harsh conditions and brutality are taking place outside our borders does not absolve us of responsibility. OUR NATION IS CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN HUMAN TRAFFICKING. INSTEAD OF ARGUING ABOUT THE REPARATIONS WE OWE EACH OTHER BASED ON DEBTS FROM/TO OUR ANCESTORS, WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON HALTING THE CURRENT INJUSTICE AND THE REPARATIONS WE MAY ALL EVENTUALLY OWE TO THOSE WE CURRENTLY ALLOW TO BE WRONGED.

I think the greatest debt owed to the past is to not repeat the evil that once took place, but to act responsibly in the present and to teach future generations by both word and example, so that it can never be allowed to recur.

Your post is offensive because you treat slavery and its aftermath as a distant, untraceable mess rather than a continuing, well-documented injustice with living descendants. You also imply the harms are unrecorded and unknowable, even though enslaved people appear in censuses, bills of sale, probate files, and plantation journals, and later injustices, such as red-lining and GI Bill exclusions, were thoroughly documented. When you say things like “people moved here and races mixed, so it is hard to know who is responsible,” you ignore how wealth taken from enslaved labor was passed down through land titles, business assets, and public investments that still advantage white institutions and heirs today. You focus more on how complicated it would be than on doing what is right, suggesting reparations should be abandoned because the whole matter is inconvenient and “messy,” which tells a community that endured forced labor, legal segregation, and ongoing harm that their injury does not matter enough to fix.

The reality is that reparations is never going to happen. There is no political will to do this in the US and any politician that campaigns on this issue will not win elections. If you want to reduce the racial wealth gap, campaign on race- neutral policies that benefit low-income and middle-class households which are broadly popular. Any policy that disproportionately supports wealth
accumulation for low-income households will reduce the racial wealth gap by design without explicitly considering race. Eg. Baby bonds for low-income households, refundable tax credit for retirement accounts contributions (limited to low income households).

Again, reparations don’t have to be cash doled out to people. The study is to look at alternatives— possibly including some of the things you’ve suggested, possibly including formal acknowledgment, and recognition of historical events and their consequences.

It’s not a great time to pay for a study like this — but for some of you, there will never be a good time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The US could pay out reparations for Jim Crow. My father was forced to go segregated schools and wasn’t allowed to enroll at our state’s land grant institution. He’s still alive. I’m so sick of the argument that this was all a long time ago. No, it wasn’t.

The reparations for Jim Crow were various affirmative action programs and government set-asides; blacks were given preference for jobs, university admissions, scholarships, government contracting opportunities, and many other programs. They were in place for many decades and survived numerous legal challenges during that time. But our Supreme Court has said that they can no longer be justified and are now illegal.

Oh, well then I guess everything is fine then.

I didn't say that, but "reparations" based on race won't happen until the Supreme Court changes hands, which will probably take at least two decades. During that time, if black people care about reparations, they need to turn out and vote for democrats in every single election because that's the only way to get liberal justices onto the Court.

If you're upset by all of this and how we got here, then you can blame all the people who didn't vote for Hillary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He’s definitely trying to appeal to the conservative side in preparation for his future presidential campaign

He's not trying to appeal to conservatives. It's just practical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Given today’s political climate, I think it’s hilarious that we are even having this discussion. We are lucky our democracy stays intact. Read.the.room. We are so far from reparations.

Calling reparations “hilarious” just shows what your personal prefrences are, that's all, just like any name-calling session. Now, if you honestly just don’t care about reparations and/or or think African Americans should just “get over” slavery, that’s your right, but your personal boredom on the matter doesn’t the U.S. can not plan to do what is right, whether you care our not. "Democracy", as you are so so concerned about, stays healthy when we dig into unfinished business, not when we act like it’s too messy. Think about it, the Civil Rights movement happened in the 60s, a rough time for our country, we can do big things in the current rough time for our country.

What's strange is that Democrats are desperate for you to forget waht might have been happening in the last four years and any investigations into that recent history are "pointless." Yet, we have something from 180 years ago that needs a closer look.

The fact Dems don’t push back on big electronic corporation use of slavery is telling.

And the fact they don’t make demands that Great Britain, Portugal, France, Spain, Denmark etc etc, the countries that brought slaves and slavery here is also telling. The US is responsible for its part from its declaration to the passing of the 13th amendment.

This is just a dangling carrot to get people’s votes.

The reality is that reparations to black Americans are not going to happen unless you do it for all descendants of slaves and pay back the native tribes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slavery was an unquestionable evil. Unfortunately, far too much time and life events have transpired to ever be able to serve justice to either those victims who deserved restitution or to the perpetrators who weren’t held accountable for their crimes. Between waves of immigration bringing multitudes into our country generations after slavery was a memory, intermarriage blurring the distinction between races, and the loss of memory over time as to what roles our ancestors who were here may have had at the time, there is no way to untangle the messiness of life and accurately portion debt or recompense owed.

At this time, reparations can only serve to create resentment to fuel racism further. Let’s help people, regardless of race, based on need. There are lots of ways that individuals, by accident of birth rather than any actions of their own, have been disadvantaged. No one gets to choose their families.

Meanwhile, this seems a particularly absurd and hypocritical time to be talking about reparations. Our government, representing us, is currently “deporting” immigrants without any semblance of due process, let alone a trial and conviction, to a lifetime sentence in foreign prisons known for their brutality. The fact that the harsh conditions and brutality are taking place outside our borders does not absolve us of responsibility. OUR NATION IS CURRENTLY ENGAGED IN HUMAN TRAFFICKING. INSTEAD OF ARGUING ABOUT THE REPARATIONS WE OWE EACH OTHER BASED ON DEBTS FROM/TO OUR ANCESTORS, WE SHOULD BE FOCUSING ON HALTING THE CURRENT INJUSTICE AND THE REPARATIONS WE MAY ALL EVENTUALLY OWE TO THOSE WE CURRENTLY ALLOW TO BE WRONGED.

I think the greatest debt owed to the past is to not repeat the evil that once took place, but to act responsibly in the present and to teach future generations by both word and example, so that it can never be allowed to recur.

Your post is offensive because you treat slavery and its aftermath as a distant, untraceable mess rather than a continuing, well-documented injustice with living descendants. You also imply the harms are unrecorded and unknowable, even though enslaved people appear in censuses, bills of sale, probate files, and plantation journals, and later injustices, such as red-lining and GI Bill exclusions, were thoroughly documented. When you say things like “people moved here and races mixed, so it is hard to know who is responsible,” you ignore how wealth taken from enslaved labor was passed down through land titles, business assets, and public investments that still advantage white institutions and heirs today. You focus more on how complicated it would be than on doing what is right, suggesting reparations should be abandoned because the whole matter is inconvenient and “messy,” which tells a community that endured forced labor, legal segregation, and ongoing harm that their injury does not matter enough to fix.

Slaves come in other colors and races beside black. The focus on descendants of black slaves is the crux of the issue. Because of that focus it takes away from the justice that is implied by reparations.