Law school applications

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can actually make it harder if lots of undergrad alums are applying. Law schools value diversity of undergrad institution, so they they don't tend to admit a lot of folks from any one undergrad, including their own.

I don't think this is true at all. Undergrads from the same university were heavily represented at my T14 law school.

It just depends on how big the class is and how many apply. Just because "undergrads from the same university were heavily represented" at your law school doesn't necessarily mean there is a "boost" for admission purposes -- you would have to look at the numbers to know whether there was a boost or the opposite. If a smaller law school aims for a 1L class of about 200, and they value diversity of undergrad institution, and 50 from that particular law school's undergad institution apply -- it can happen that some of those folks are rejected even though they have better stats than some of the folks who are admitted. With a large 1L class, and not a huge number of folks from the undergrad applying, will they get a "boost"? Most likely, yes. It all depends.

But it certainly can make it harder. Sometimes much harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have said it before, will say it again: top Law School admissions process is now like top undergrad process. Outstanding grades and test score are now the table stakes you need to even earn consideration, you need some kind of distinguishing characteristics on top of that to get in

People coming in here and saying, I had a 3.8 and 175 and got into Yale, numbers are all that matters, sound as out of date and misinformed as the grandparents who say a kid with a 1400 SAT should go to Princeton just like they did

DC '24 has 3 friends from their ivy headed to law school this fall after a gap year. All had 171+, all had at least 3.8 but none were "top10%" in their department recognitions. Going to UVA, Chicago and Penn for law, and all got in to at least one other T14. Another is going to Harvard fall 26 (ED/junior deferral, got in summer 2023, is a 3.95 top kid, got BSE in '24 and is working at a startup for 2 yrs). DC is going to a top ivy med school after doing a 4+1 (undergrad, MPH) and knows other '24 classmates starting a top med program this fall or already started right after the bachelors. There are multiple who went to phD straight from undergrad and are at Ivies, GT, Michigan, MIT for physics, engineering, math. Everyone on DCUM says undergrad doesn't matter but from the perspective as a parent with an ivy kid, they all seem to go on to great programs.

I can not imagine being a parent who knows the LSAT scores and GPAs of all of my kid’s friends. That is so weird. Maybe now that your son is graduating you can relax a little . . .

It's freaking weird and sad.

I think it is more likely made up than it is weird/sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My ds is applying but doesn't really want to "practice law". He is more interested in international relations and business.

Then a well-regarded MBA would be a better route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK but what if they don't care about t14?

Then they will be fine. More than fine. And maybe even have a very fancy and lucrative career like myself and many I went to school with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No back door.

You need the stats and you need to convince them that you really want to be in law school. Lots of NYU undergrads will apply.

You also need to have a compelling story and be unique in some way. They don’t want a class full of UMC white suburban kids. They want a diverse class in every way.

It’s tough out there. My Phi Beta Kappa/174 kid never even got a response from their NYU law school application and was waitlisted or rejected from every other T13 they applied to.

Something must have been missing from his application file.

Yeah something was missing. My kid and his ivy 2023 peers all got into T14 and many got T5s, with 0-1 year off, all had 3.8+ but none were phi beta kappa.

I don’t know what to tell you. Nothing was “missing”. Maybe the fact that your kids went to an Ivy was a boost.

Stop lying. Students with scores above mean aren’t rejected wholesale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cornell Law's admissions page states that Cornell undergrads who apply ED to Cornell Law receive an admissions boost; as a result, Cornell undergrad is the most represented school at Cornell Law by a very wide margin.

Research the average or median age of entering law students to assess the importance of post undergraduate degree work experience. This has always been an admissions factor at Northwestern's law school (average age 25), but not so at Cornell Law where the median age is 23 (lots of K-JD law students at Cornell).

Average age of first year law students is 24 at Yale, Penn, Virginia, and Duke which indicates/suggests that many are K-JD.

Please forgive my laziness…. PP is there a central clearinghouse type place that reports this data for all schools? Something analogous to the CDS for undergrad applicants/ admitted students?

Or must one slog through each law school’s website in an attempt to find ….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ds is applying but doesn't really want to "practice law". He is more interested in international relations and business.

Then a well-regarded MBA would be a better route.

Not for international relations and diplomacy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can actually make it harder if lots of undergrad alums are applying. Law schools value diversity of undergrad institution, so they they don't tend to admit a lot of folks from any one undergrad, including their own.

I don't think this is true at all. Undergrads from the same university were heavily represented at my T14 law school.

It just depends on how big the class is and how many apply. Just because "undergrads from the same university were heavily represented" at your law school doesn't necessarily mean there is a "boost" for admission purposes -- you would have to look at the numbers to know whether there was a boost or the opposite. If a smaller law school aims for a 1L class of about 200, and they value diversity of undergrad institution, and 50 from that particular law school's undergad institution apply -- it can happen that some of those folks are rejected even though they have better stats than some of the folks who are admitted. With a large 1L class, and not a huge number of folks from the undergrad applying, will they get a "boost"? Most likely, yes. It all depends.

But it certainly can make it harder. Sometimes much harder.

When Yale law used to publish these stats it showed nearly 15% of Yale law school went to Yale undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cornell Law's admissions page states that Cornell undergrads who apply ED to Cornell Law receive an admissions boost; as a result, Cornell undergrad is the most represented school at Cornell Law by a very wide margin.

Research the average or median age of entering law students to assess the importance of post undergraduate degree work experience. This has always been an admissions factor at Northwestern's law school (average age 25), but not so at Cornell Law where the median age is 23 (lots of K-JD law students at Cornell).

Average age of first year law students is 24 at Yale, Penn, Virginia, and Duke which indicates/suggests that many are K-JD.

Please forgive my laziness…. PP is there a central clearinghouse type place that reports this data for all schools? Something analogous to the CDS for undergrad applicants/ admitted students?

Or must one slog through each law school’s website in an attempt to find ….

Not sure as to whether or not there is a central clearinghouse for law school admissions information/stats analogous to undergraduate CDS reports. I check each law school's website for information.

There are private sources which do collect such information on all law schools. Some info. can be found on lawschooltransparency.com and some info.on lawschoolnumbers.com.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ds is applying but doesn't really want to "practice law". He is more interested in international relations and business.

Then a well-regarded MBA would be a better route.

Not for international relations and diplomacy

We learn absolutely nothing about those things in law school. We learn about personal jurisdiction and stare decisis and contributory negligence and depraved heart murder and easements and probable cause.

[Anonymous]

Each law school is required to have a 509 report each year of admissions and enrollment statistics.

For more detail, sometimes each school publishes a JD class profile each fall with more information that isn't included in the 509 report about median age, undergrad schools represented, states, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It can actually make it harder if lots of undergrad alums are applying. Law schools value diversity of undergrad institution, so they they don't tend to admit a lot of folks from any one undergrad, including their own.

I don't think this is true at all. Undergrads from the same university were heavily represented at my T14 law school.

It just depends on how big the class is and how many apply. Just because "undergrads from the same university were heavily represented" at your law school doesn't necessarily mean there is a "boost" for admission purposes -- you would have to look at the numbers to know whether there was a boost or the opposite. If a smaller law school aims for a 1L class of about 200, and they value diversity of undergrad institution, and 50 from that particular law school's undergad institution apply -- it can happen that some of those folks are rejected even though they have better stats than some of the folks who are admitted. With a large 1L class, and not a huge number of folks from the undergrad applying, will they get a "boost"? Most likely, yes. It all depends.

But it certainly can make it harder. Sometimes much harder.

When Yale law used to publish these stats it showed nearly 15% of Yale law school went to Yale undergrad.

And how many Yale grad applicants did they get?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone want to get into this miserable profession.

We are not doing anyone any good, and if we are, we're probably not making much money. Sorry for the pessimism, but think about it, if meaningful work matters to you. The brass ring -- Big Law -- is just so you can make corporations (and the firm) richer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone want to get into this miserable profession.

We are not doing anyone any good, and if we are, we're probably not making much money. Sorry for the pessimism, but think about it, if meaningful work matters to you. The brass ring -- Big Law -- is just so you can make corporations (and the firm) richer.

The brass ring-Big Law--is just so you can pay off your student loans quicker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would anyone want to get into this miserable profession.

We are not doing anyone any good, and if we are, we're probably not making much money. Sorry for the pessimism, but think about it, if meaningful work matters to you. The brass ring -- Big Law -- is just so you can make corporations (and the firm) richer.

The brass ring-Big Law--is just so you can pay off your student loans quicker.

And then what?