Are the new 9th graders the top of the class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most students getting admitted for 9th grade, even the non-athletes, still have some kind of hook that distinguished them from other applicants with similar credentials.

Indeed, 9th grade is the most difficult entry point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is weird because the vast majority of competitive high schools are part of a K-12 and take most of their class in the lower school. STA goes from 60 to 80 in 9th grade, for example, and NCS is even less.

I grew up in another major city and the competitive high schools often didn't have lower schools at all, or had very small ones. I just looked up the school I graduated from, and they jump from 50-60 in 8th to 140-150 in 9th. That's a real different vibe. It also lets them functionally screen for students who will do well in the college process, since by 8th grade, you have real information about someone as a student. It was routinely mentioned that the strongest students were the new 9th and 10th graders. I can't think of many (any?) school in DC that works that way.

That is different, but why wouldn’t the K12s here still screen for students who would do well in the college process? What else would they be looking for?

Exactly. They screen for kids who can hack the academics and for kids who won't disrupt the outplacement statistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is weird because the vast majority of competitive high schools are part of a K-12 and take most of their class in the lower school. STA goes from 60 to 80 in 9th grade, for example, and NCS is even less.

I grew up in another major city and the competitive high schools often didn't have lower schools at all, or had very small ones. I just looked up the school I graduated from, and they jump from 50-60 in 8th to 140-150 in 9th. That's a real different vibe. It also lets them functionally screen for students who will do well in the college process, since by 8th grade, you have real information about someone as a student. It was routinely mentioned that the strongest students were the new 9th and 10th graders. I can't think of many (any?) school in DC that works that way.

That is different, but why wouldn’t the K12s here still screen for students who would do well in the college process? What else would they be looking for?

Sure, but most competitive K-12s in DC have lower school as the primary entry point and take maybe 20-30 max in 9th grade. In some other cities though, it's more common for the competitive schools to start in high school or only have a small lower school – so the bulk of students are admitted in middle school are later, when they're old enough to have a real academic record.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thinking about applications to various schools next year and how to think about the later grades and whether to do K8 or K12. Not sure if there is any way to know this, but are the kids who enter at 9th grade typically the strongest academically in the more competitive schools? I mean, in a K12, does it generally track that the later the student enters, the stronger academically they have to be? Or does it not really work like that because the more competitive schools are really good at teaching the kids they have so they all kind of even out?

Our experience at two Big 3 is that Some are, some aren’t . Kids are accepted for a variety of reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've had kids at two Big3 schools and honestly most of the top kids are lifers or close to it. it's very hard to perform (I.e catch up) to the level required to get As in English and history if you arrive in 9th. it's such a giant gap between public and private in these subjects and many 9th grade admits are from public. the public kids are usually accelerated in math but that only gets you so far and sometimes it's not a great foundation.

I'd say 75% of the top kids arrive earlier than 9th. Maybe 85%. My own kids arrived in 9th so I've experienced this first hand.

This assumes kids are coming from public. Kids who come from a strong private k-8 have no problem hanging with smart lifers….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've had kids at two Big3 schools and honestly most of the top kids are lifers or close to it. it's very hard to perform (I.e catch up) to the level required to get As in English and history if you arrive in 9th. it's such a giant gap between public and private in these subjects and many 9th grade admits are from public. the public kids are usually accelerated in math but that only gets you so far and sometimes it's not a great foundation.

I'd say 75% of the top kids arrive earlier than 9th. Maybe 85%. My own kids arrived in 9th so I've experienced this first hand.

This assumes kids are coming from public. Kids who come from a strong private k-8 have no problem hanging with smart lifers….

The private elementary schools do not imbue your child with some magical learning advantage. Especially compared with the top local public elementary schools — which are geographically zoned for the tiniest & wealthiest sections of a county. Those little pockets are in fact stronger than privates which pull from a variety of backgrounds in order to achieve some semblance of diversity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is weird because the vast majority of competitive high schools are part of a K-12 and take most of their class in the lower school. STA goes from 60 to 80 in 9th grade, for example, and NCS is even less.

I grew up in another major city and the competitive high schools often didn't have lower schools at all, or had very small ones. I just looked up the school I graduated from, and they jump from 50-60 in 8th to 140-150 in 9th. That's a real different vibe. It also lets them functionally screen for students who will do well in the college process, since by 8th grade, you have real information about someone as a student. It was routinely mentioned that the strongest students were the new 9th and 10th graders. I can't think of many (any?) school in DC that works that way.

That is different, but why wouldn’t the K12s here still screen for students who would do well in the college process? What else would they be looking for?

Sure, but most competitive K-12s in DC have lower school as the primary entry point and take maybe 20-30 max in 9th grade. In some other cities though, it's more common for the competitive schools to start in high school or only have a small lower school – so the bulk of students are admitted in middle school are later, when they're old enough to have a real academic record.

Right but doesn’t that mean they have even more reason to heavily screen (for college success) the small number of students they will take?

[Anonymous]

At Sidwell, the majority of the top 10% of the class and also NMSFs entered in 9th grade. It’s not even close.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The private elementary schools do not imbue your child with some magical learning advantage. Especially compared with the top local public elementary schools — which are geographically zoned for the tiniest & wealthiest sections of a county. Those little pockets are in fact stronger than privates which pull from a variety of backgrounds in order to achieve some semblance of diversity.

Why isn't that reflected in college admissions of those wealthiest families that choose for their kids to attend public HS?

[Anonymous]

I currently work at one of the top three schools and I’ll tell you this, the ninth graders are coming into the community outside of our school perform far better than the students that we’ve had at our lower school and middle school who matriculate to the upper school. Honestly, other schools without the shiny status and names, Public Schools in the area, and some charters are preparing students at a better rate than students who are already enrolled in independent schools.

Don’t be fooled by name, location, and bragging rights. Please remember the majority of teachers in independent schools are not trained or certified in their discipline which severely impacts instruction and student outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Most new arrivals are academically qualified and have other aspects that differentiate (maybe the school needs a Tuba player as a contrived wxample). They often are not the very very top academically compared with other applicants. I think this is true at many of the 7 Big-3 schools in this area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The private elementary schools do not imbue your child with some magical learning advantage. Especially compared with the top local public elementary schools — which are geographically zoned for the tiniest & wealthiest sections of a county. Those little pockets are in fact stronger than privates which pull from a variety of backgrounds in order to achieve some semblance of diversity.

Why isn't that reflected in college admissions of those wealthiest families that choose for their kids to attend public HS?

Why isn’t what reflected?

In these tiny elementary zones that I am referencing, lots of kids go to private — Big3 and Catholic and all kinds — for middle or high school. Lots go to TJ/Blair publics. Lots go to their local public high school which is a gazillion times bigger than the elementary.

And, shock, some of those kids are legacies and athletes and they get into Top 10 and Top 20 from Big 3 or Catholic or TJ or publics. I do not think your elementary school experience determines where you go to college. Do you?

My point is only that there is a misperception about the quality of the public school kids because a lot of private school families don’t really understand that, like privates, there is a huge diversity of experiences. And I think it’s shocking to some that there are elite little bastions of wealth that are entirely segregated by housing that do not allow any diversity of income—and they are public elementary schools. You have to live in the zone and the zone consists of $2m housing. This only happens in elementary when the zones are tiny. And the teachers are excellent and the kids are all bright and motivated. The kids who left our local elementary school had problems — they weren’t succeeding for some reason and they needed more attention.

I’m not saying that all public elementary schools are better or that public elementary school kids are better prepared. I’m only trying to point out that there is nuance and misperception.

[Anonymous]

Bethesda Magazine has made it quite clear that the wealthiest public schools, even with all the money and legacies, aren't getting students admitted to top schools at high rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I currently work at one of the top three schools and I’ll tell you this, the ninth graders are coming into the community outside of our school perform far better than the students that we’ve had at our lower school and middle school who matriculate to the upper school. Honestly, other schools without the shiny status and names, Public Schools in the area, and some charters are preparing students at a better rate than students who are already enrolled in independent schools.

Don’t be fooled by name, location, and bragging rights. Please remember the majority of teachers in independent schools are not trained or certified in their discipline which severely impacts instruction and student outcomes.

I agree. Many times people get their foot in the door to ensure the high school experience. They don’t realize that their kids may be getting a middling lower or middle school experience whuke they await the golden high school years whereas some of the K8s are knocking those years out of the park. But beyond that, I wondered whether being in a k-12 can breed some complacency among the students during those lower and middle school years because they aren’t facing the same pressures as the kids on the outside who are seeking to enter in 9th.

[Anonymous]

Middle school academics has been hardly a breeze at our Big 3. Lots of homework and studying, on top of all the sports.