Are the new 9th graders the top of the class?

[Anonymous]

The schools are picking the top 3-4% of the applicants. You get some very smart kids in at 9th grade. Think Will Hunting. Some of these kids can write a paper an hour before class and get the highest grade in the class or spend 30 minutes studying on AP chemistry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids at a top private and the lifers bridge from 8th to 9th with very little problem. New kids from public seem shocked that every grade isn’t an A, there are no retakes, no extra credit, and you need to be efficient in class and study hall if you don’t want to spend your entire evening doing homework. Of course the B students in middle school are still B students in high school, but the top solid a students seem to have come up through the entire system and know how to succeed at our school the first day of high school, whereas it takes even the smartest public school transfers some time to figure things out.

At my Big 3, most of the new 9th graders come from private K-8th schools, not public schools. The few unhooked public school students who make it through the admissions process tend to be academic superstars. They seem to make up for any academic gaps by the end of first semester. In my experience, those students, along with the lifers who were A students in middle school, are at the top of the class by graduation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do parents know all this information? Seems like broad generalizations with little to no way to verify accuracy.

Cum laude election is done in junior year. That gives you info on the 8-10 kids who are the top of their class. In a small place, you know who has been around since lower school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The schools are picking the top 3-4% of the applicants. You get some very smart kids in at 9th grade. Think Will Hunting. Some of these kids can write a paper an hour before class and get the highest grade in the class or spend 30 minutes studying on AP chemistry.

This is an absurdly stupid statement. My kid is in the top 5-10% of their class - entered in 9th - currently a junior. They are a great many things, but “Good Will Hunting” not among them. The kids that enter in 9th are generally well-rounded, not myopic math (or science, or anything) geeks that are technically geniuses but non-functional in other capacities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking about applications to various schools next year and how to think about the later grades and whether to do K8 or K12. Not sure if there is any way to know this, but are the kids who enter at 9th grade typically the strongest academically in the more competitive schools? I mean, in a K12, does it generally track that the later the student enters, the stronger academically they have to be? Or does it not really work like that because the more competitive schools are really good at teaching the kids they have so they all kind of even out?

Yes. It is very clear in everything not just academics. The new kids entering in 9th grade push the lifers to the side. It is not even close. The most competitive schools are picking the very top students and athletes.

+1000, the arriving 9th graders have been chosen to cover a variety of niches and many, many excel

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thinking about applications to various schools next year and how to think about the later grades and whether to do K8 or K12. Not sure if there is any way to know this, but are the kids who enter at 9th grade typically the strongest academically in the more competitive schools? I mean, in a K12, does it generally track that the later the student enters, the stronger academically they have to be? Or does it not really work like that because the more competitive schools are really good at teaching the kids they have so they all kind of even out?

If you can afford it (taking into account any FA you might receive), I'd apply to a K-12. When you're in, you're in. You don't have to repeat the process later. If your child thrives in the school, they will be ahead of the curve as to the parameters expected at that particular school. If you or your child feel that another school would be a better fit for US, I think a strong candidate transferring from another top private K-12 would be viewed favorably (assuming good grades and reason for transfer articulated (not upset with current school, just think XYZ would be a better fir because.....(particular program/commute/athletics/etc.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking about applications to various schools next year and how to think about the later grades and whether to do K8 or K12. Not sure if there is any way to know this, but are the kids who enter at 9th grade typically the strongest academically in the more competitive schools? I mean, in a K12, does it generally track that the later the student enters, the stronger academically they have to be? Or does it not really work like that because the more competitive schools are really good at teaching the kids they have so they all kind of even out?

Yes. It is very clear in everything not just academics. The new kids entering in 9th grade push the lifers to the side. It is not even close. The most competitive schools are picking the very top students and athletes.

+1000, the arriving 9th graders have been chosen to cover a variety of niches and many, many excel

Presence of parents with kids who entered a top school in 9th is strong for this topic! LOL.

Reality is some of those entering in 9th will be among top in class, as will be many who are lifers/entered earlier. Many of those entering in 9th will also be pretty strong academically but admitted for their athletic abilities in a particular sport or talent in robotics/music, etc. At our top K-12, the vast majority of the kids at the top of the class (attending Ivies/Top Colleges) entered the school in the early (think 4th and lower) grades. Contrary to what everyone wants to believe, the top privates are not just looking for academic powerhouses. They want kids who will do well academically (they need to be able to handle the work), but are well-rounded and will contribute in other ways to the community, too.

[Anonymous]

Yes, most

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do parents know all this information? Seems like broad generalizations with little to no way to verify accuracy.

This. People making guesses and generalizations to confirm what they believed in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do parents know all this information? Seems like broad generalizations with little to no way to verify accuracy.

I know because I talk to my children. At my child’s Big 3, grade comparison is rampant (for better or worse). Kids discuss their grades with each other. In turn, children who talk to their parents identify top students (as part of a typical conversation when discussing one’s day and/or how one did on a quiz/test/paper).

Kids never lie?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do parents know all this information? Seems like broad generalizations with little to no way to verify accuracy.

I know because I talk to my children. At my child’s Big 3, grade comparison is rampant (for better or worse). Kids discuss their grades with each other. In turn, children who talk to their parents identify top students (as part of a typical conversation when discussing one’s day and/or how one did on a quiz/test/paper).

Kids never lie?

Don't be so literal. Over time kids know who the top kids in their grade are. They're the ones who take the top classes, get the best grades day-in and day-out, answer all questions correctly in class, etc. Our school has cum laude society where they honor the top20% in 12th grade and my kid could have named 90% of of them correctly prior to the ceremony. Kids aren't dumb. They don't spend hours thinking or talking about how others are doing but in a general sense they know who the "top" kids are just by going to school. It's not a perfect accounting but it's not some giant conspiracy theory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking about applications to various schools next year and how to think about the later grades and whether to do K8 or K12. Not sure if there is any way to know this, but are the kids who enter at 9th grade typically the strongest academically in the more competitive schools? I mean, in a K12, does it generally track that the later the student enters, the stronger academically they have to be? Or does it not really work like that because the more competitive schools are really good at teaching the kids they have so they all kind of even out?

If you can afford it (taking into account any FA you might receive), I'd apply to a K-12. When you're in, you're in. You don't have to repeat the process later. If your child thrives in the school, they will be ahead of the curve as to the parameters expected at that particular school. If you or your child feel that another school would be a better fit for US, I think a strong candidate transferring from another top private K-12 would be viewed favorably (assuming good grades and reason for transfer articulated (not upset with current school, just think XYZ would be a better fir because.....(particular program/commute/athletics/etc.).

Think this comment should be taken with a giant grain of salt. It depends on wildly on the nature of your public school vs the nature of the private schools you are thinking about. We reside in an incredibly strong public school zone and our child entered Big3 for HS. I do not know child’s rank (nor do I care) but child is excelling and I suspect pretty high. Child was prepared for Big3 work, but part of that was just adjusting to HS. For example, when child took a quiz and didn’t get child’s normal 100% from public, child immediately adjusted and prepared differently for tests, etc. Child knew and understood how to take feedback — and this was learned at public school, despite always getting 100%. Teachers in our local public elementary school were terrific and, importantly, the peer group was top notch. My experience was that the kids who left our very good elementary school for privates tended to be have a lot of needs — parents getting a divorce, problems paying attention in a large classroom, not testing well, one parent got sick. I don’t think the Big3 kids had any real advantage over mine but I do believe strongly that my child’s HS experience is vastly different from their public school peers. Who knows whether that is better/worse in the very long run but for now child is happy and working hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have two kids at a top private and the lifers bridge from 8th to 9th with very little problem. New kids from public seem shocked that every grade isn’t an A, there are no retakes, no extra credit, and you need to be efficient in class and study hall if you don’t want to spend your entire evening doing homework. Of course the B students in middle school are still B students in high school, but the top solid a students seem to have come up through the entire system and know how to succeed at our school the first day of high school, whereas it takes even the smartest public school transfers some time to figure things out.

+1
My kids are lifers at a k-12. The kids who need more specialized instruction or who have learning differences or who just find it to be too much work leave bf 9th. Some are counseled out, and some just find a better fit. Not to stereotype, but a lot of the kids who enter from public have a wake up call bc there’s no curve, no retakes, etc. You can’t get by on memorization, and the writing level that’s expected is incredibly high. This seems surprising to some kids who come from smaller privates, too. The standard for writing is high in non-English classes in high school, and many seem surprised that this matters for science and history classes.

There is zero memorization in public schools, lol. That's a part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thinking about applications to various schools next year and how to think about the later grades and whether to do K8 or K12. Not sure if there is any way to know this, but are the kids who enter at 9th grade typically the strongest academically in the more competitive schools? I mean, in a K12, does it generally track that the later the student enters, the stronger academically they have to be? Or does it not really work like that because the more competitive schools are really good at teaching the kids they have so they all kind of even out?

Yes. It is very clear in everything not just academics. The new kids entering in 9th grade push the lifers to the side. It is not even close. The most competitive schools are picking the very top students and athletes.

+1000, the arriving 9th graders have been chosen to cover a variety of niches and many, many excel

Presence of parents with kids who entered a top school in 9th is strong for this topic! LOL.

Reality is some of those entering in 9th will be among top in class, as will be many who are lifers/entered earlier. Many of those entering in 9th will also be pretty strong academically but admitted for their athletic abilities in a particular sport or talent in robotics/music, etc. At our top K-12, the vast majority of the kids at the top of the class (attending Ivies/Top Colleges) entered the school in the early (think 4th and lower) grades. Contrary to what everyone wants to believe, the top privates are not just looking for academic powerhouses. They want kids who will do well academically (they need to be able to handle the work), but are well-rounded and will contribute in other ways to the community, too.

This is not our experience. The top academic students by 11th grade are all 9th grade admits. There may be one or two lifers in the high level classes but not many. The lifers and lower grade admits fall in a normal distribution intelligence curve.

Let’s face it. The lower schools are not teaching differential calculus in 5th grade. They are teaching basic grade level stuff. The academic demands and loads change in high school and this is where the separation takes places.

Look at the athletics. The athletic kids who are admits in 9th grade are clearly way better vs the existing kids. The “star” athlete in 8th grade is no longer the star. In many cases does not even make the team. The same thing happens on the academic side. You just can’t see it because you are not teaching and grading the classes.

These top schools are pulling from the whole region and have an admission rate of 3-5% for 9th grade without siblings preference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At our private, new 9th graders are slightly above new 6th graders in terms of academic performance on average by the time of graduation. They spend 9th grade catching up on expectations on homework, but are normally very smart. New 6th graders are on average better than kids that started in K. There is a sizable percentage of the class that started in kindergarten that would not get in if they applied for 9th grade and may have some trouble in 6th grade admissions. I’m actually glad they don’t counsel them out because I don’t want an entire class of gunners. Transfers from K-8 privates tend to be strong.

This tracks at my school 100%