Why do the supposed best schools need remedial classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many sour grapes on this post.

There are sour grapes, but also a gaping misunderstanding of a lot of issues.

The most fundamental misunderstanding is the "remedial" math classes at schools like Harvard. As other have tried to explain, those classes are offered for aspiring STEM majors who do not have a strong calculus foundation. What might be hard for folks in the DMV to understand is that not all American high schools offer calculus. In fact, only 50 percent of American high schools offer the course, and schools that are predominantly Black or Latino are even less likely to offer it. So, even the most brilliant kid in one of those schools either needs to forego calculus or co-enroll at a university (if there is one nearby).

The second fundamental misunderstanding is about the "point" of American undergraduate admissions. It's not a prize to the kid who had the most advantages, or even who worked the hardest, in K-12. It's not a foot race where the top 100 finishers get a spot in X school and the next 100 finishers get a spot in Y school. They are looking for work ethic, but also potential, and they take into account whether you attended a school that offered Multi-Variable or that finished at Pre-Calculus.

There are not a ton of things about the USA making me proud right now, but one of them is that a school like Harvard is willing to look for bright kids who didn't have the same advantages as my own children, and give them a shot at the Big Leagues, even if that means remediating classes they never had the chance to take as high schoolers.

[Anonymous]

DCUM boards never cease to amaze regarding the excuse making for not getting into a school. 100 percent of the “remedial complainers” would give their right arm to attend Harvard. I truly hope rejection doesn’t haunt you forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many sour grapes on this post.

There are sour grapes, but also a gaping misunderstanding of a lot of issues.

The most fundamental misunderstanding is the "remedial" math classes at schools like Harvard. As other have tried to explain, those classes are offered for aspiring STEM majors who do not have a strong calculus foundation. What might be hard for folks in the DMV to understand is that not all American high schools offer calculus. In fact, only 50 percent of American high schools offer the course, and schools that are predominantly Black or Latino are even less likely to offer it. So, even the most brilliant kid in one of those schools either needs to forego calculus or co-enroll at a university (if there is one nearby).

If you or Harvard really cared about these 50% of high schools that don't offer calculus (which i think is overstating it by a lot), then the answer isn't to admit those kids to Harvard and have them take remedial math, but for Harvard and you to improve those schools. A good starting point would be requiring all Harvard grads to teach for 4-6 years at those schools before getting dipoloma

The second fundamental misunderstanding is about the "point" of American undergraduate admissions. It's not a prize to the kid who had the most advantages, or even who worked the hardest, in K-12. It's not a foot race where the top 100 finishers get a spot in X school and the next 100 finishers get a spot in Y school. They are looking for work ethic, but also potential, and they take into account whether you attended a school that offered Multi-Variable or that finished at Pre-Calculus.

There are not a ton of things about the USA making me proud right now, but one of them is that a school like Harvard is willing to look for bright kids who didn't have the same advantages as my own children, and give them a shot at the Big Leagues, even if that means remediating classes they never had the chance to take as high schoolers.

Nobody seems to be able to answer the question , is if state U is good enough for UMC who can't get into Harvard, why isn't it good enough , with full ride, for these kids?

[Anonymous]

One additional point. So you admit these kids to Harvard and they graduated and their families are now UMC. Now their kids no longer have advantage to goto Harvard and are in the same boat as the rest of us.

But that high school is terrible. So who has actually gained here?

[Anonymous]

So do the remedial students interact with the academically privileged at Harvard? I doubt it. They are on separate tracks and from different social classes.

[Anonymous]

If you or Harvard really cared about these 50% of high schools that don't offer calculus (which i think is overstating it by a lot), then the answer isn't to admit those kids to Harvard and have them take remedial math, but for Harvard and you to improve those schools. A good starting point would be requiring all Harvard grads to teach for 4-6 years at those schools before getting dipoloma

If you have another statistic, share it. As of right now, all of the sources available say half, and lower for schools that are predominantly BIPOC.

When you are the Harvard provost, feel free to deny half of the kids in the US even the slightest chance of admission by requiring a class their high school does not offer. Until then, you need to deal with the fact that elite colleges are going to continue to look for kids with high potential who have not yet been given access to specific classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One additional point. So you admit these kids to Harvard and they graduated and their families are now UMC. Now their kids no longer have advantage to goto Harvard and are in the same boat as the rest of us.

But that high school is terrible. So who has actually gained here?

This is wildly reductive. A single person moving from working class to upper middle class can change the trajectory of an entire family, particularly in cultures with high levels of social cohesion.

By your metric, colleges should ONLY admit low income students, because the "gain" is substantially higher on that sort of class mobility than a UMC kid who goes to Harvard and stays UMC along with everyone in their family who was already UMC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If you or Harvard really cared about these 50% of high schools that don't offer calculus (which i think is overstating it by a lot), then the answer isn't to admit those kids to Harvard and have them take remedial math, but for Harvard and you to improve those schools. A good starting point would be requiring all Harvard grads to teach for 4-6 years at those schools before getting dipoloma

If you have another statistic, share it. As of right now, all of the sources available say half, and lower for schools that are predominantly BIPOC.

When you are the Harvard provost, feel free to deny half of the kids in the US even the slightest chance of admission by requiring a class their high school does not offer. Until then, you need to deal with the fact that elite colleges are going to continue to look for kids with high potential who have not yet been given access to specific classes.

I know that stat is overstated because all of the blue collar and lower middle class high schools around here offer calculus. But let's go with 50%.

The problem with this "not yet given access to specific classes " is that we have community colleges, the internet. Nothing stops them from enriching their math using couresa , ocw, etc and not having to need remedial classes at Harvard. It's pretty ridiculous to claim that a hard working, ambitious kid wouldn't try other learning besides their school building. I know because I was one of them, I didn't let that limit my learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One additional point. So you admit these kids to Harvard and they graduated and their families are now UMC. Now their kids no longer have advantage to goto Harvard and are in the same boat as the rest of us.

But that high school is terrible. So who has actually gained here?

This is wildly reductive. A single person moving from working class to upper middle class can change the trajectory of an entire family, particularly in cultures with high levels of social cohesion.

a single person, out of a high school of 1000-2000kids. (The us has 23000 high schools, you can't even send the valedictorian of the 50% of high schools without calculus to ivies) . What about those kids? Their high school is still terrible and doesn't have calculus.

My parents came to the country penniless grad students and I went to a school with limited courses. I didn't need Harvard to break into the UMC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Harvard is still admitting low stats students. They go to poor performing schools ie, average SAT is 900 and they get a 1350 so they look like rock stars. But they really aren't and need help once they get to college. They're making a joke of admissions.

But it helps keep out the Asians so it's worth it

Exactly. I wonder why woke people are anti Asians? Asians makeup the smallest and most vulnerable minority group in the US while working hard and studying hard and staying out of trouble.

A society shall be judged by how it treats its most vulnerable.

AAPI folks are neither the smallest demographic group in the US nor the most vulnerable but it's cute that you have never heard of Native Americans.

2 wrongs don't make it right. It's odd that you care for other groups but not Asians. You made my point.

Could it be that Asians are inconvenient truth for Dems narrative about how minority groups are destined to fail due to discrimination etc ?

Asians won't be a punching bag for Dems much longer.

I think privileged whites feel threatened by hard working Asians since they don't won't to compete with Asians. Asians in general tend to be focused on academic and economic progress unlike other groups.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard is still admitting low stats students. They go to poor performing schools ie, average SAT is 900 and they get a 1350 so they look like rock stars. But they really aren't and need help once they get to college. They're making a joke of admissions.

But it helps keep out the Asians so it's worth it

Exactly. I wonder why woke people are anti Asians? Asians makeup the smallest and most vulnerable minority group in the US while working hard and studying hard and staying out of trouble.

A society shall be judged by how it treats its most vulnerable.

AAPI folks are neither the smallest demographic group in the US nor the most vulnerable but it's cute that you have never heard of Native Americans.

2 wrongs don't make it right. It's odd that you care for other groups but not Asians. You made my point.

Could it be that Asians are inconvenient truth for Dems narrative about how minority groups are destined to fail due to discrimination etc ?

Asians won't be a punching bag for Dems much longer.

I think privileged whites feel threatened by hard working Asians since they don't won't to compete with Asians. Asians in general tend to be focused on academic and economic progress unlike other groups.

Exactly.

Perhaps. But a college that is only 25% white is not going to be popular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard is still admitting low stats students. They go to poor performing schools ie, average SAT is 900 and they get a 1350 so they look like rock stars. But they really aren't and need help once they get to college. They're making a joke of admissions.

But it helps keep out the Asians so it's worth it

Exactly. I wonder why woke people are anti Asians? Asians makeup the smallest and most vulnerable minority group in the US while working hard and studying hard and staying out of trouble.

A society shall be judged by how it treats its most vulnerable.

AAPI folks are neither the smallest demographic group in the US nor the most vulnerable but it's cute that you have never heard of Native Americans.

2 wrongs don't make it right. It's odd that you care for other groups but not Asians. You made my point.

Could it be that Asians are inconvenient truth for Dems narrative about how minority groups are destined to fail due to discrimination etc ?

Asians won't be a punching bag for Dems much longer.

I think privileged whites feel threatened by hard working Asians since they don't won't to compete with Asians. Asians in general tend to be focused on academic and economic progress unlike other groups.

Exactly.

Perhaps. But a college that is only 25% white is not going to be popular.

I think your white privileged way of thinking is showing.

[Anonymous]

The country is not white majority so it doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Harvard is still admitting low stats students. They go to poor performing schools ie, average SAT is 900 and they get a 1350 so they look like rock stars. But they really aren't and need help once they get to college. They're making a joke of admissions.

But it helps keep out the Asians so it's worth it

Exactly. I wonder why woke people are anti Asians? Asians makeup the smallest and most vulnerable minority group in the US while working hard and studying hard and staying out of trouble.

A society shall be judged by how it treats its most vulnerable.

AAPI folks are neither the smallest demographic group in the US nor the most vulnerable but it's cute that you have never heard of Native Americans.

2 wrongs don't make it right. It's odd that you care for other groups but not Asians. You made my point.

Could it be that Asians are inconvenient truth for Dems narrative about how minority groups are destined to fail due to discrimination etc ?

Asians won't be a punching bag for Dems much longer.

I think privileged whites feel threatened by hard working Asians since they don't won't to compete with Asians. Asians in general tend to be focused on academic and economic progress unlike other groups.

Exactly.

Perhaps. But a college that is only 25% white is not going to be popular.

Hopkins is only 19% white

[Anonymous]

And Berkeley and UCLA both have less than 25% white students.