Pay to Play Summer Programs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter almost did one of those programs, but she ended up getting a real internship doing research at UMD. So I think that is going to be a more impressive story than the pay to play situation. Plus, her internship is 5 weeks...a bigger commitment. She will be working with a graduate student.

That's great! Was it through your connections or did she manage it on her own?

lol what do you think

I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but just checking if the PP will acknowledge the nepo baby privilege.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a summer camp. If my kid was truly interested in the enrichment then of course I would send them if I could afford it. But not just to pump up the resume.

Depends on the camp. UCLA and Berkeley have a summer program where the participants take regular summer classes with other college students. They are limited to 100 level courses but they are normal full credit courses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC participated in one of the”pay to play” at an Ivy (still had to fill out app, write essays, get LOR’s, transcripts so it wasn’t “pay and you’re in”) and then participated in another that was specific to their interest, highly competitive and required all of the above plus resume and more.

The latter expressly told the participants that it would help them if they applied ED but I realize that’s a rarity with these programs. Regardless, they were selected which looks great and it earned them college credit.

U Chicago.

Nope (I knew people would assume that but it wasn’t)

Which school was it then?

I'm kind of shocked that a major university would tell people that attending their pay to play summer program would help them if they apply ED.

Was it wake forest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s basically a summer camp. If my kid was truly interested in the enrichment then of course I would send them if I could afford it. But not just to pump up the resume.

Depends on the camp. UCLA and Berkeley have a summer program where the participants take regular summer classes with other college students. They are limited to 100 level courses but they are normal full credit courses.

you can do that at home and you don't give up your other activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC participated in one of the”pay to play” at an Ivy (still had to fill out app, write essays, get LOR’s, transcripts so it wasn’t “pay and you’re in”) and then participated in another that was specific to their interest, highly competitive and required all of the above plus resume and more.

The latter expressly told the participants that it would help them if they applied ED but I realize that’s a rarity with these programs. Regardless, they were selected which looks great and it earned them college credit.

U Chicago.

Nope (I knew people would assume that but it wasn’t)

Which school was it then?

I'm kind of shocked that a major university would tell people that attending their pay to play summer program would help them if they apply ED.

Was it wake forest?

That was my first thought too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have done alumni interviews for a top school for many years. Unclear how much my opinion matters. I generally prefer a kid who works at a camp or scooping ice cream to one doing one of these programs. But I do not view the programs negatively. It is all how it fits into the overall narrative.

I see no harm in doing it at a different school than mine - I likely wouldn't ask, but a simple answer of "I spent the summer at that school but realized I like your school better because of XYZ" or "I chose them for this specific reason" easily explains it - just be prepared to explain.

These programs are much better than teen tours, which are the ultimate sign of privilege. Particularly domestic ones. International ones are very hit or miss.

I can see this. My child goes to a full summer sleepaway camp and I’ve noticed many of the counselors are in or set to go to top colleges, and have been either a camper or camp counselor every yr through middle and high school. They wouldn’t have been able to do these pre-college programs. I do think it speaks to some resilience and mental fortitude if you can spend 7 weeks without electricity, A/C, or a phone at summer camp wrangling kids and tweens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have done alumni interviews for a top school for many years. Unclear how much my opinion matters. I generally prefer a kid who works at a camp or scooping ice cream to one doing one of these programs. But I do not view the programs negatively. It is all how it fits into the overall narrative.

I see no harm in doing it at a different school than mine - I likely wouldn't ask, but a simple answer of "I spent the summer at that school but realized I like your school better because of XYZ" or "I chose them for this specific reason" easily explains it - just be prepared to explain.

These programs are much better than teen tours, which are the ultimate sign of privilege. Particularly domestic ones. International ones are very hit or miss.

I can see this. My child goes to a full summer sleepaway camp and I’ve noticed many of the counselors are in or set to go to top colleges, and have been either a camper or camp counselor every yr through middle and high school. They wouldn’t have been able to do these pre-college programs. I do think it speaks to some resilience and mental fortitude if you can spend 7 weeks without electricity, A/C, or a phone at summer camp wrangling kids and tweens.

really? Without electricity? Did they also have to use an outhouse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have done alumni interviews for a top school for many years. Unclear how much my opinion matters. I generally prefer a kid who works at a camp or scooping ice cream to one doing one of these programs. But I do not view the programs negatively. It is all how it fits into the overall narrative.

I see no harm in doing it at a different school than mine - I likely wouldn't ask, but a simple answer of "I spent the summer at that school but realized I like your school better because of XYZ" or "I chose them for this specific reason" easily explains it - just be prepared to explain.

These programs are much better than teen tours, which are the ultimate sign of privilege. Particularly domestic ones. International ones are very hit or miss.

I can see this. My child goes to a full summer sleepaway camp and I’ve noticed many of the counselors are in or set to go to top colleges, and have been either a camper or camp counselor every yr through middle and high school. They wouldn’t have been able to do these pre-college programs. I do think it speaks to some resilience and mental fortitude if you can spend 7 weeks without electricity, A/C, or a phone at summer camp wrangling kids and tweens.

What camp does your child go to? Sounds awful. Most camps don't have AC but no electricity? Really? Working at a sleepaway camp is great. Day camp is also great. As I mentioned, scooping ice cream or bagging groceries is great.

I was just referring to the fact that they have a job with real accountability, answering to other people, is impressive to me. Much more than claiming to have done critical work at mommy's hedge fund (tell me the name of the fund so I can withdraw my money if a 17 year old is really actively involved) or going on some international trip where it is really just hooking up and drinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have done alumni interviews for a top school for many years. Unclear how much my opinion matters. I generally prefer a kid who works at a camp or scooping ice cream to one doing one of these programs. But I do not view the programs negatively. It is all how it fits into the overall narrative.

I see no harm in doing it at a different school than mine - I likely wouldn't ask, but a simple answer of "I spent the summer at that school but realized I like your school better because of XYZ" or "I chose them for this specific reason" easily explains it - just be prepared to explain.

These programs are much better than teen tours, which are the ultimate sign of privilege. Particularly domestic ones. International ones are very hit or miss.

I can see this. My child goes to a full summer sleepaway camp and I’ve noticed many of the counselors are in or set to go to top colleges, and have been either a camper or camp counselor every yr through middle and high school. They wouldn’t have been able to do these pre-college programs. I do think it speaks to some resilience and mental fortitude if you can spend 7 weeks without electricity, A/C, or a phone at summer camp wrangling kids and tweens.

What camp does your child go to? Sounds awful. Most camps don't have AC but no electricity? Really? Working at a sleepaway camp is great. Day camp is also great. As I mentioned, scooping ice cream or bagging groceries is great.

I was just referring to the fact that they have a job with real accountability, answering to other people, is impressive to me. Much more than claiming to have done critical work at mommy's hedge fund (tell me the name of the fund so I can withdraw my money if a 17 year old is really actively involved) or going on some international trip where it is really just hooking up and drinking.

But does it stand out though? Serious question.

How does volunteering at a non-profit, or scooping ice cream or bagging groceries or working at a sleepaway camp stand out when applying to T20?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have done alumni interviews for a top school for many years. Unclear how much my opinion matters. I generally prefer a kid who works at a camp or scooping ice cream to one doing one of these programs. But I do not view the programs negatively. It is all how it fits into the overall narrative.

I see no harm in doing it at a different school than mine - I likely wouldn't ask, but a simple answer of "I spent the summer at that school but realized I like your school better because of XYZ" or "I chose them for this specific reason" easily explains it - just be prepared to explain.

These programs are much better than teen tours, which are the ultimate sign of privilege. Particularly domestic ones. International ones are very hit or miss.

I can see this. My child goes to a full summer sleepaway camp and I’ve noticed many of the counselors are in or set to go to top colleges, and have been either a camper or camp counselor every yr through middle and high school. They wouldn’t have been able to do these pre-college programs. I do think it speaks to some resilience and mental fortitude if you can spend 7 weeks without electricity, A/C, or a phone at summer camp wrangling kids and tweens.

Full summer sleepaway camps are something few families afford, and the equivalent of signaling to an admissions officer that you're wealthy. Even if you're a counselor, you're only being hired because you went there as a child. Sounds like a lovely summer, but unaffordable to most American families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter almost did one of those programs, but she ended up getting a real internship doing research at UMD. So I think that is going to be a more impressive story than the pay to play situation. Plus, her internship is 5 weeks...a bigger commitment. She will be working with a graduate student.

That's great! Was it through your connections or did she manage it on her own?

lol what do you think

I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but just checking if the PP will acknowledge the nepo baby privilege.

Crickets--I too am curious how a high school kid gets a "real internship" doing research at UMD without connections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have done alumni interviews for a top school for many years. Unclear how much my opinion matters. I generally prefer a kid who works at a camp or scooping ice cream to one doing one of these programs. But I do not view the programs negatively. It is all how it fits into the overall narrative.

I see no harm in doing it at a different school than mine - I likely wouldn't ask, but a simple answer of "I spent the summer at that school but realized I like your school better because of XYZ" or "I chose them for this specific reason" easily explains it - just be prepared to explain.

These programs are much better than teen tours, which are the ultimate sign of privilege. Particularly domestic ones. International ones are very hit or miss.

I can see this. My child goes to a full summer sleepaway camp and I’ve noticed many of the counselors are in or set to go to top colleges, and have been either a camper or camp counselor every yr through middle and high school. They wouldn’t have been able to do these pre-college programs. I do think it speaks to some resilience and mental fortitude if you can spend 7 weeks without electricity, A/C, or a phone at summer camp wrangling kids and tweens.

Full summer sleepaway camps are something few families afford, and the equivalent of signaling to an admissions officer that you're wealthy. Even if you're a counselor, you're only being hired because you went there as a child. Sounds like a lovely summer, but unaffordable to most American families.

Yes and no. My child goes to a fancy camp. Younger, pre-college age junior counselors tend to almost all be former campers, so yes, that is signaling wealth. But it also signals willingness to work - I would take a rich kid who spent 7 weeks as a counselor at one of these camps over a rich kid who worked at mom's hedge fund, on an "academic trip" or a "service trip" abroad (which tend to be boondoggles), or whatever else. Because however ritzy the camp is, counselors still have really tough jobs, and in some ways even harder as parents have very high expectations. And the owners take this responsibility very seriously so only hire their best former campers - having paid to go to the camp for many years does not guarantee a job - this is a very tough conversation for many camp owners that we loved taking your money for seven years but now do not want your kid responsible for younger children.

Older counselors who are 19 or 20 actually often come from less name-brand schools. Often kids looking to see a different part of the country, future teachers, etc. My child's camp has pipelines into a few very random, off-the-radar schools. Plus they draw a lot of international counselors to fill things out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have done alumni interviews for a top school for many years. Unclear how much my opinion matters. I generally prefer a kid who works at a camp or scooping ice cream to one doing one of these programs. But I do not view the programs negatively. It is all how it fits into the overall narrative.

I see no harm in doing it at a different school than mine - I likely wouldn't ask, but a simple answer of "I spent the summer at that school but realized I like your school better because of XYZ" or "I chose them for this specific reason" easily explains it - just be prepared to explain.

These programs are much better than teen tours, which are the ultimate sign of privilege. Particularly domestic ones. International ones are very hit or miss.

I can see this. My child goes to a full summer sleepaway camp and I’ve noticed many of the counselors are in or set to go to top colleges, and have been either a camper or camp counselor every yr through middle and high school. They wouldn’t have been able to do these pre-college programs. I do think it speaks to some resilience and mental fortitude if you can spend 7 weeks without electricity, A/C, or a phone at summer camp wrangling kids and tweens.

Full summer sleepaway camps are something few families afford, and the equivalent of signaling to an admissions officer that you're wealthy. Even if you're a counselor, you're only being hired because you went there as a child. Sounds like a lovely summer, but unaffordable to most American families.

Yes and no. My child goes to a fancy camp. Younger, pre-college age junior counselors tend to almost all be former campers, so yes, that is signaling wealth. But it also signals willingness to work - I would take a rich kid who spent 7 weeks as a counselor at one of these camps over a rich kid who worked at mom's hedge fund, on an "academic trip" or a "service trip" abroad (which tend to be boondoggles), or whatever else. Because however ritzy the camp is, counselors still have really tough jobs, and in some ways even harder as parents have very high expectations. And the owners take this responsibility very seriously so only hire their best former campers - having paid to go to the camp for many years does not guarantee a job - this is a very tough conversation for many camp owners that we loved taking your money for seven years but now do not want your kid responsible for younger children.

Older counselors who are 19 or 20 actually often come from less name-brand schools. Often kids looking to see a different part of the country, future teachers, etc. My child's camp has pipelines into a few very random, off-the-radar schools. Plus they draw a lot of international counselors to fill things out.

I agree. Being a camp counselor shows a good level of maturity, work ethic and social skills that would be viewed as a positive thing from me as an employer. But your contrast of working as a counselor at a fancy camp vs. "working at mom's hedge fund" or "doing a service trip abroad" are all things that are characteristics of kids in the top 5% of American incomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have done alumni interviews for a top school for many years. Unclear how much my opinion matters. I generally prefer a kid who works at a camp or scooping ice cream to one doing one of these programs. But I do not view the programs negatively. It is all how it fits into the overall narrative.

I see no harm in doing it at a different school than mine - I likely wouldn't ask, but a simple answer of "I spent the summer at that school but realized I like your school better because of XYZ" or "I chose them for this specific reason" easily explains it - just be prepared to explain.

These programs are much better than teen tours, which are the ultimate sign of privilege. Particularly domestic ones. International ones are very hit or miss.

I can see this. My child goes to a full summer sleepaway camp and I’ve noticed many of the counselors are in or set to go to top colleges, and have been either a camper or camp counselor every yr through middle and high school. They wouldn’t have been able to do these pre-college programs. I do think it speaks to some resilience and mental fortitude if you can spend 7 weeks without electricity, A/C, or a phone at summer camp wrangling kids and tweens.

Full summer sleepaway camps are something few families afford, and the equivalent of signaling to an admissions officer that you're wealthy. Even if you're a counselor, you're only being hired because you went there as a child. Sounds like a lovely summer, but unaffordable to most American families.

Yes and no. My child goes to a fancy camp. Younger, pre-college age junior counselors tend to almost all be former campers, so yes, that is signaling wealth. But it also signals willingness to work - I would take a rich kid who spent 7 weeks as a counselor at one of these camps over a rich kid who worked at mom's hedge fund, on an "academic trip" or a "service trip" abroad (which tend to be boondoggles), or whatever else. Because however ritzy the camp is, counselors still have really tough jobs, and in some ways even harder as parents have very high expectations. And the owners take this responsibility very seriously so only hire their best former campers - having paid to go to the camp for many years does not guarantee a job - this is a very tough conversation for many camp owners that we loved taking your money for seven years but now do not want your kid responsible for younger children.

Older counselors who are 19 or 20 actually often come from less name-brand schools. Often kids looking to see a different part of the country, future teachers, etc. My child's camp has pipelines into a few very random, off-the-radar schools. Plus they draw a lot of international counselors to fill things out.

I agree. Being a camp counselor shows a good level of maturity, work ethic and social skills that would be viewed as a positive thing from me as an employer. But your contrast of working as a counselor at a fancy camp vs. "working at mom's hedge fund" or "doing a service trip abroad" are all things that are characteristics of kids in the top 5% of American incomes.

Good points. But in my original post I was also focused on jobs like working at a day camp, bagging groceries, waitressing, scooping ice cream, etc. which demonstrate zero privilege. They just demonstrate work ethic, responsibility, people skills, etc. Sorry we got side tracked by sleepaway camps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have done alumni interviews for a top school for many years. Unclear how much my opinion matters. I generally prefer a kid who works at a camp or scooping ice cream to one doing one of these programs. But I do not view the programs negatively. It is all how it fits into the overall narrative.

I see no harm in doing it at a different school than mine - I likely wouldn't ask, but a simple answer of "I spent the summer at that school but realized I like your school better because of XYZ" or "I chose them for this specific reason" easily explains it - just be prepared to explain.

These programs are much better than teen tours, which are the ultimate sign of privilege. Particularly domestic ones. International ones are very hit or miss.

I can see this. My child goes to a full summer sleepaway camp and I’ve noticed many of the counselors are in or set to go to top colleges, and have been either a camper or camp counselor every yr through middle and high school. They wouldn’t have been able to do these pre-college programs. I do think it speaks to some resilience and mental fortitude if you can spend 7 weeks without electricity, A/C, or a phone at summer camp wrangling kids and tweens.

Full summer sleepaway camps are something few families afford, and the equivalent of signaling to an admissions officer that you're wealthy. Even if you're a counselor, you're only being hired because you went there as a child. Sounds like a lovely summer, but unaffordable to most American families.

idk, I imagine one without electricity would be pretty cheap?