Pay to Play Summer Programs

[Anonymous]

Selective colleges are facing a very different reality today compared to last year. Good full pay international students aren't there anymore. That market - particularly from China - is collapsing. 529s are getting hit. Net worths are declining. Federal research grants have been frozen or disappeared all together. The current administration regards many of the better universities as political enemies. Everything is uncertain. Except the fact that the number of families willing to pay $400,000 for a degree is rapidly shrinking.

So colleges are looking a lot more favorably at families in pay to play summer programs. If in a position to take advantage of it, go for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are college counselors dissuading kids from participating in so-called "pay to play" programs on the basis that they signal wealth and privilege?

Private school, club sports or other expensive ECs - not to mention the parents' professions and zip code - also signal wealth and privilege but no college counselor is discouraging those types of things. Also, isn't "full pay" suppose to be an advantage in college admissions so, for example, it would be good for my public school kid to participate in an expensive program to signal that we are "full pay"?

People say that "pay to play" won't give your kid an advantage in getting into colleges, but from what I've seen from the current seniors, a good number of them did do a pre-college program at a college and also got into that college. I can think of specific kids who did pre-college programs at Brown, Duke, UChicago, Northwestern, U. Michigan, Georgetown, and were accepted to those schools senior year. They probably did leverage that "pay to play" summer experience in essays and activities lists to show "demonstrated interest."

I think this is a case of "wishful thinking" on our part. They don't help anything except the bottom line of the offering school.

A summer program can help the application tell a credible story. If the applicant says they want to major in X, and they did a summer pre-college program in X, then that program is helpful to the application. They also help your kid get a better understanding of whether or not they really do want to major in X.

Yes yes that gives you plausible deniability that you are just wealthy and lighting money on fire.

You can take classes at a CC, or online (OCW, coursera) classes, yadda yadda. come on people, be serious.

You sound bitter and jealous.

just because I can afford to, doesn't mean I will go around lighting money on fire.

The fact that you describe $3,500 summer class tuition as “lighting money on fire” means you can’t REALLY afford it. We regularly spend over 100k on charity each year. A check for a few thousand dollars is nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are college counselors dissuading kids from participating in so-called "pay to play" programs on the basis that they signal wealth and privilege?

Private school, club sports or other expensive ECs - not to mention the parents' professions and zip code - also signal wealth and privilege but no college counselor is discouraging those types of things. Also, isn't "full pay" suppose to be an advantage in college admissions so, for example, it would be good for my public school kid to participate in an expensive program to signal that we are "full pay"?

People say that "pay to play" won't give your kid an advantage in getting into colleges, but from what I've seen from the current seniors, a good number of them did do a pre-college program at a college and also got into that college. I can think of specific kids who did pre-college programs at Brown, Duke, UChicago, Northwestern, U. Michigan, Georgetown, and were accepted to those schools senior year. They probably did leverage that "pay to play" summer experience in essays and activities lists to show "demonstrated interest."

I think this is a case of "wishful thinking" on our part. They don't help anything except the bottom line of the offering school.

A summer program can help the application tell a credible story. If the applicant says they want to major in X, and they did a summer pre-college program in X, then that program is helpful to the application. They also help your kid get a better understanding of whether or not they really do want to major in X.

I'll take this answer for $1,400

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are college counselors dissuading kids from participating in so-called "pay to play" programs on the basis that they signal wealth and privilege?

Private school, club sports or other expensive ECs - not to mention the parents' professions and zip code - also signal wealth and privilege but no college counselor is discouraging those types of things. Also, isn't "full pay" suppose to be an advantage in college admissions so, for example, it would be good for my public school kid to participate in an expensive program to signal that we are "full pay"?

People say that "pay to play" won't give your kid an advantage in getting into colleges, but from what I've seen from the current seniors, a good number of them did do a pre-college program at a college and also got into that college. I can think of specific kids who did pre-college programs at Brown, Duke, UChicago, Northwestern, U. Michigan, Georgetown, and were accepted to those schools senior year. They probably did leverage that "pay to play" summer experience in essays and activities lists to show "demonstrated interest."

I think this is a case of "wishful thinking" on our part. They don't help anything except the bottom line of the offering school.

A summer program can help the application tell a credible story. If the applicant says they want to major in X, and they did a summer pre-college program in X, then that program is helpful to the application. They also help your kid get a better understanding of whether or not they really do want to major in X.

Yes yes that gives you plausible deniability that you are just wealthy and lighting money on fire.

You can take classes at a CC, or online (OCW, coursera) classes, yadda yadda. come on people, be serious.

You sound bitter and jealous.

just because I can afford to, doesn't mean I will go around lighting money on fire.

The fact that you describe $3,500 summer class tuition as “lighting money on fire” means you can’t REALLY afford it. We regularly spend over 100k on charity each year. A check for a few thousand dollars is nothing.

While donating to your kids private school is technically a nonprofit and deductible, i wouldn't consider it a charity. YMMV

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC participated in one of the”pay to play” at an Ivy (still had to fill out app, write essays, get LOR’s, transcripts so it wasn’t “pay and you’re in”) and then participated in another that was specific to their interest, highly competitive and required all of the above plus resume and more.

The latter expressly told the participants that it would help them if they applied ED but I realize that’s a rarity with these programs. Regardless, they were selected which looks great and it earned them college credit.

U Chicago.

Nope (I knew people would assume that but it wasn’t)

Which school was it then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC participated in one of the”pay to play” at an Ivy (still had to fill out app, write essays, get LOR’s, transcripts so it wasn’t “pay and you’re in”) and then participated in another that was specific to their interest, highly competitive and required all of the above plus resume and more.

The latter expressly told the participants that it would help them if they applied ED but I realize that’s a rarity with these programs. Regardless, they were selected which looks great and it earned them college credit.

U Chicago.

Nope (I knew people would assume that but it wasn’t)

Which school was it then?

I'm kind of shocked that a major university would tell people that attending their pay to play summer program would help them if they apply ED.

[Anonymous]

I have two kids that did two separate programs. One at Kings College in London and one at Bocconi. Regardless of whether it helped or not, these were great experiences away from home in a different country with 100 other kids from all over the world. IT was an amazing experience and the focus on the classes allowed them to get an idea of how does subjects are taught internationally.

Both of them mentioned these programs briefly in their essays talking about things they learned about themselves or situations where they learn other things. They were both accepted to their top targets (both Ivies). So while we dont know whether it helped or not, it clearly didnt hurt. Both white, privileged, high stats, but not extraordinary stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC participated in one of the”pay to play” at an Ivy (still had to fill out app, write essays, get LOR’s, transcripts so it wasn’t “pay and you’re in”) and then participated in another that was specific to their interest, highly competitive and required all of the above plus resume and more.

The latter expressly told the participants that it would help them if they applied ED but I realize that’s a rarity with these programs. Regardless, they were selected which looks great and it earned them college credit.

U Chicago.

Nope (I knew people would assume that but it wasn’t)

Which school was it then?

I'm kind of shocked that a major university would tell people that attending their pay to play summer program would help them if they apply ED.

U chicago even went as far as creating a separate ED (ED0) for their summer payees.
It says a lot about the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC participated in one of the”pay to play” at an Ivy (still had to fill out app, write essays, get LOR’s, transcripts so it wasn’t “pay and you’re in”) and then participated in another that was specific to their interest, highly competitive and required all of the above plus resume and more.

The latter expressly told the participants that it would help them if they applied ED but I realize that’s a rarity with these programs. Regardless, they were selected which looks great and it earned them college credit.

U Chicago.

Nope (I knew people would assume that but it wasn’t)

Which school was it then?

I'm kind of shocked that a major university would tell people that attending their pay to play summer program would help them if they apply ED.

U chicago even went as far as creating a separate ED (ED0) for their summer payees.
It says a lot about the school.

PP insists they aren’t talking about U Chicago though. Nice bit of gatekeeping happening.

[Anonymous]

^or just lying about whether the school said participation in their summer program would boost admission chances.

[Anonymous]

My daughter almost did one of those programs, but she ended up getting a real internship doing research at UMD. So I think that is going to be a more impressive story than the pay to play situation. Plus, her internship is 5 weeks...a bigger commitment. She will be working with a graduate student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter almost did one of those programs, but she ended up getting a real internship doing research at UMD. So I think that is going to be a more impressive story than the pay to play situation. Plus, her internship is 5 weeks...a bigger commitment. She will be working with a graduate student.

That's great! Was it through your connections or did she manage it on her own?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter almost did one of those programs, but she ended up getting a real internship doing research at UMD. So I think that is going to be a more impressive story than the pay to play situation. Plus, her internship is 5 weeks...a bigger commitment. She will be working with a graduate student.

That's great for your daughter (I mean that sincerely), but last summer my daughter emailed over 70 professors and, if they responded at all, they all told her that under their department's policy, they cannot have anyone under 18 volunteer or intern in their lab. This was not at UMD, so it may differ by university. So, we are shelling out the money so she can get a taste of research this summer, which she could not do last summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My daughter almost did one of those programs, but she ended up getting a real internship doing research at UMD. So I think that is going to be a more impressive story than the pay to play situation. Plus, her internship is 5 weeks...a bigger commitment. She will be working with a graduate student.

That's great! Was it through your connections or did she manage it on her own?

lol what do you think

[Anonymous]

As someone who paid to play as people are calling it, I will say that it didn’t help get them in the school they went to. But it did help them piece together their interests. I think if you’re trying to game the system it’s easy for admissions to see that in their entire package. However, there’s many kids who go to these programs for true interest and learn more about themselves than just trying to check the box. By the way, you can get into schools like UVA without doing so. So for everyone who thinks it’s required, it’s not. Stay authentic and do what your kid WANTS to do. That shines through more and you don’t need to shell out thousands. With that said, any counselor that tells you not to take an opportunity given to you should be questioned as well.