Pay to Play Summer Programs

[Anonymous]

My kid (10th grade now) is doing a 1-week summer program at a VA college because it’s interesting, fun, and a way to have an introduction to rooming with a stranger and staying in dorms and eating on campus. DC hasn’t had much chance to be away from home and never without people DC already knows, so this will be a good stepping stone for a somewhat reserved kid. That’s worth the $1000 price tag. But it’s not something that will go on college apps except maybe to the college in question. It’s a fun and interesting week to explore being a little more independent, and that’s it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are college counselors dissuading kids from participating in so-called "pay to play" programs on the basis that they signal wealth and privilege?

Private school, club sports or other expensive ECs - not to mention the parents' professions and zip code - also signal wealth and privilege but no college counselor is discouraging those types of things. Also, isn't "full pay" suppose to be an advantage in college admissions so, for example, it would be good for my public school kid to participate in an expensive program to signal that we are "full pay"?

People say that "pay to play" won't give your kid an advantage in getting into colleges, but from what I've seen from the current seniors, a good number of them did do a pre-college program at a college and also got into that college. I can think of specific kids who did pre-college programs at Brown, Duke, UChicago, Northwestern, U. Michigan, Georgetown, and were accepted to those schools senior year. They probably did leverage that "pay to play" summer experience in essays and activities lists to show "demonstrated interest."

What are you quoting as "fact"? Not every college counselor is discouraging kids from participating.

OP here. My friends' kids attend different, very highly regarded private schools that send multiple kids to top colleges and their in-school private college counselors explicitly told the parents to avoid "pay to play" programs. Also, Sara Harberson of Application Nation discourages these programs as well, as does the guy who does the podcast called "The Game." So, obviously not every college counselor, but either way, most of the advice from all of the foregoing has made sense to me except for this one so I'm just asking for more thoughts/insight into the reasoning behind it.

Our private school counselor said absolutely not to do these programs as well. It is a huge indicator of wealth and privilege. I find it odd too, since parents are both law firm partners and kid attends $55k+ a year private school. We are obviously HHI. It is sort of hard to hide wealth, but the CCO encourages community college classes or free internships/shadowing experiences instead of pre-college programs.

Yeah, that's bizarre. Being a private school student, absent a few token kids who get significant financial aid, already signifies that your kid is rich.

They don't want you to flaunt it

Don’t be ridiculous.

Most affluent students will have participated in these types of programs over the course of their high school career.

Colleges are looking for full pay students. I don’t know why you think they aren’t?

Attending a summer program isn’t flaunting anything.

[Anonymous]

My friend's kid's school just had a group of high school students fly to Nepal for spring break (with a long layover in Dubai) for a service project. This was a very expensive trip. And the counselors want students to hide their privilege? Just doesn't seem to be consistent messaging...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are college counselors dissuading kids from participating in so-called "pay to play" programs on the basis that they signal wealth and privilege?

Private school, club sports or other expensive ECs - not to mention the parents' professions and zip code - also signal wealth and privilege but no college counselor is discouraging those types of things. Also, isn't "full pay" suppose to be an advantage in college admissions so, for example, it would be good for my public school kid to participate in an expensive program to signal that we are "full pay"?

People say that "pay to play" won't give your kid an advantage in getting into colleges, but from what I've seen from the current seniors, a good number of them did do a pre-college program at a college and also got into that college. I can think of specific kids who did pre-college programs at Brown, Duke, UChicago, Northwestern, U. Michigan, Georgetown, and were accepted to those schools senior year. They probably did leverage that "pay to play" summer experience in essays and activities lists to show "demonstrated interest."

What are you quoting as "fact"? Not every college counselor is discouraging kids from participating.

OP here. My friends' kids attend different, very highly regarded private schools that send multiple kids to top colleges and their in-school private college counselors explicitly told the parents to avoid "pay to play" programs. Also, Sara Harberson of Application Nation discourages these programs as well, as does the guy who does the podcast called "The Game." So, obviously not every college counselor, but either way, most of the advice from all of the foregoing has made sense to me except for this one so I'm just asking for more thoughts/insight into the reasoning behind it.

Our private school counselor said absolutely not to do these programs as well. It is a huge indicator of wealth and privilege. I find it odd too, since parents are both law firm partners and kid attends $55k+ a year private school. We are obviously HHI. It is sort of hard to hide wealth, but the CCO encourages community college classes or free internships/shadowing experiences instead of pre-college programs.

Yeah, that's bizarre. Being a private school student, absent a few token kids who get significant financial aid, already signifies that your kid is rich.

They don't want you to flaunt it

Don’t be ridiculous.

Most affluent students will have participated in these types of programs over the course of their high school career.

Colleges are looking for full pay students. I don’t know why you think they aren’t?

Attending a summer program isn’t flaunting anything.

I was being sarcastic. Kind of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friend's kid's school just had a group of high school students fly to Nepal for spring break (with a long layover in Dubai) for a service project. This was a very expensive trip. And the counselors want students to hide their privilege? Just doesn't seem to be consistent messaging...

Because they are flying first class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friend's kid's school just had a group of high school students fly to Nepal for spring break (with a long layover in Dubai) for a service project. This was a very expensive trip. And the counselors want students to hide their privilege? Just doesn't seem to be consistent messaging...

If you attended a private school then hiding your privilege is simply impossible even if you avoid expensive summer programs.

[Anonymous]

I have done alumni interviews for a top school for many years. Unclear how much my opinion matters. I generally prefer a kid who works at a camp or scooping ice cream to one doing one of these programs. But I do not view the programs negatively. It is all how it fits into the overall narrative.

I see no harm in doing it at a different school than mine - I likely wouldn't ask, but a simple answer of "I spent the summer at that school but realized I like your school better because of XYZ" or "I chose them for this specific reason" easily explains it - just be prepared to explain.

These programs are much better than teen tours, which are the ultimate sign of privilege. Particularly domestic ones. International ones are very hit or miss.

[Anonymous]

DC participated in one of the”pay to play” at an Ivy (still had to fill out app, write essays, get LOR’s, transcripts so it wasn’t “pay and you’re in”) and then participated in another that was specific to their interest, highly competitive and required all of the above plus resume and more.

The latter expressly told the participants that it would help them if they applied ED but I realize that’s a rarity with these programs. Regardless, they were selected which looks great and it earned them college credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC participated in one of the”pay to play” at an Ivy (still had to fill out app, write essays, get LOR’s, transcripts so it wasn’t “pay and you’re in”) and then participated in another that was specific to their interest, highly competitive and required all of the above plus resume and more.

The latter expressly told the participants that it would help them if they applied ED but I realize that’s a rarity with these programs. Regardless, they were selected which looks great and it earned them college credit.

U Chicago.

[Anonymous]

What about the benefit of spending a week or two on the campus of a college DC is considering? Seems like pay to play is great way to get to know a school and whether or not it’s a good fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid (10th grade now) is doing a 1-week summer program at a VA college because it’s interesting, fun, and a way to have an introduction to rooming with a stranger and staying in dorms and eating on campus. DC hasn’t had much chance to be away from home and never without people DC already knows, so this will be a good stepping stone for a somewhat reserved kid. That’s worth the $1000 price tag. But it’s not something that will go on college apps except maybe to the college in question. It’s a fun and interesting week to explore being a little more independent, and that’s it.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have done alumni interviews for a top school for many years. Unclear how much my opinion matters. I generally prefer a kid who works at a camp or scooping ice cream to one doing one of these programs. But I do not view the programs negatively. It is all how it fits into the overall narrative.

I see no harm in doing it at a different school than mine - I likely wouldn't ask, but a simple answer of "I spent the summer at that school but realized I like your school better because of XYZ" or "I chose them for this specific reason" easily explains it - just be prepared to explain.

These programs are much better than teen tours, which are the ultimate sign of privilege. Particularly domestic ones. International ones are very hit or miss.

What? Are you talking about visiting colleges campuses?

[Anonymous]

Whoever says pay to play is worthless doesnt not know what they are taking about.
It depends on what the goal is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC participated in one of the”pay to play” at an Ivy (still had to fill out app, write essays, get LOR’s, transcripts so it wasn’t “pay and you’re in”) and then participated in another that was specific to their interest, highly competitive and required all of the above plus resume and more.

The latter expressly told the participants that it would help them if they applied ED but I realize that’s a rarity with these programs. Regardless, they were selected which looks great and it earned them college credit.

U Chicago.

Nope (I knew people would assume that but it wasn’t)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are college counselors dissuading kids from participating in so-called "pay to play" programs on the basis that they signal wealth and privilege?

Private school, club sports or other expensive ECs - not to mention the parents' professions and zip code - also signal wealth and privilege but no college counselor is discouraging those types of things. Also, isn't "full pay" suppose to be an advantage in college admissions so, for example, it would be good for my public school kid to participate in an expensive program to signal that we are "full pay"?

People say that "pay to play" won't give your kid an advantage in getting into colleges, but from what I've seen from the current seniors, a good number of them did do a pre-college program at a college and also got into that college. I can think of specific kids who did pre-college programs at Brown, Duke, UChicago, Northwestern, U. Michigan, Georgetown, and were accepted to those schools senior year. They probably did leverage that "pay to play" summer experience in essays and activities lists to show "demonstrated interest."

I think this is a case of "wishful thinking" on our part. They don't help anything except the bottom line of the offering school.

A summer program can help the application tell a credible story. If the applicant says they want to major in X, and they did a summer pre-college program in X, then that program is helpful to the application. They also help your kid get a better understanding of whether or not they really do want to major in X.

Yes yes that gives you plausible deniability that you are just wealthy and lighting money on fire.

You can take classes at a CC, or online (OCW, coursera) classes, yadda yadda. come on people, be serious.

You sound bitter and jealous.

just because I can afford to, doesn't mean I will go around lighting money on fire.

lol