Why hasn't GMU surpassed UVA, W&M, VT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Prestige. Plain and simple. Look at this forum. The constant Ivy League, T10, T20, etc.

All parents want prestige, but it’s a college education that is most important. That degree. Really, any degree is fine. For most careers, that is all that matters. Where they receive it is rather moot.

I recently went to a presentation and the attorney graduated from Towson pre-law and University of Baltimore School of Law. Not prestigious, but he is doing fabulous and happy.

Okay, but by this logic GMU should never “surpass” anyone. At best it is equivalent.

Correct. There is not much history of a run of the mill state school overtaking a flagship. I actually can’t think of any examples.

UCLA was the Los Angeles division of Berkeley and is now ranked higher, I believe.

? ranked higher where and for what?

To me, Cal = STEM, and UCLA is more for humanities and/or premed.

I have friends/family who went to both, in state.

USNWR undergraduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the number of Nobel prizes it won - it's more than the rest of the State combined. It's a world class university for blue collar workers .

GMU has won zero Nobel prizes. Buchanan won when he was at UVA and years later became GMU professor. Smith received the award while he was at George Mason, but it was for work He had done at Arizona.

And the Mason hater; both were part of the faculty when they won at GMU.

VA Tech people cry for not keeping Buchanan and Arizona for Smith; If you were a student of either when they won the Nobel Prize it was at GMU.

And don't forget Supreme Court Justices becoming visiting professors at GMU Law - who cares about ideology? You land a clerk position then you are set for life. Do you get that at the slightly higher ranked Law Schools?

And a few Pulitzer Prize winners. A number which is within reach of UVA and W&M. Please don't bring up Poe - that was before GMU was even an idea.

Cry some more that your elite wine drinking snooty school hasn't destroyed the beer drinking blue collar working school. You think it's still an "only commuter school" or something more?

NP.
Destroy? UVA and W&M don't compete with GMU for students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a commuter school. And Trumpy.

Liberal actually

Trumpier than UVA or W&M.

Well, UVA and W&M are left of center.

As are most of the higher ranked colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GMU's problem is that it is in the backyard of most NOVA kids and who wants that for college? Kids should spread their wings. Otherwise, a better option than some other publics.

Sure, but NoVa isn't all of Virginia. Why do students from places like Richmond, Norfolk/VA beach, Bristol not want to go to GMU? Does Virginia Tech have the same issue with kids that grew up within 20 or so miles of Blacksburg not wanting to go there?

Is that the case? Where do you get that information?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the number of Nobel prizes it won - it's more than the rest of the State combined. It's a world class university for blue collar workers .

GMU has won zero Nobel prizes. Buchanan won when he was at UVA and years later became GMU professor. Smith received the award while he was at George Mason, but it was for work He had done at Arizona.

And the Mason hater; both were part of the faculty when they won at GMU.

VA Tech people cry for not keeping Buchanan and Arizona for Smith; If you were a student of either when they won the Nobel Prize it was at GMU.

And don't forget Supreme Court Justices becoming visiting professors at GMU Law - who cares about ideology? You land a clerk position then you are set for life. Do you get that at the slightly higher ranked Law Schools?

And a few Pulitzer Prize winners. A number which is within reach of UVA and W&M. Please don't bring up Poe - that was before GMU was even an idea.

Cry some more that your elite wine drinking snooty school hasn't destroyed the beer drinking blue collar working school. You think it's still an "only commuter school" or something more?

NP.
Destroy? UVA and W&M don't compete with GMU for students.

No one said they do. Just replying to the hater. And the kids that go to GMU have a different mindset than the W&M and UVA. No one goes to GMU thinking it looks good on the resume. They do go in with ambition and know the opportunities the school offers within and outside. I was just pointing out how GMU helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GMU's problem is that it is in the backyard of most NOVA kids and who wants that for college? Kids should spread their wings. Otherwise, a better option than some other publics.

This. UVA, VT, WM and even JMU (and depending on what your kid is studying VCU) are more attractive to a large cohort of high performing kids because they don’t want to live 2, or even 20, miles from Mom and Dad during college. And are blasé about being a metro ride away from DC, because they grew up with it. There are two niches they fill that gets high performing NOVA kids in the door: those who are strong and STEM but miss admission to VT engineering/CS and those who have severe budget constraints/family obligations and for whom living at home is a financial or practical need.

I would like to see GMU do more with IR/politics, etc, given they do shuttle to the Vienna metro. They could be appealing as an in state option for kids who want the proximity to DC for school year internships. I wish they had a formal program where kids from other VA state schools could live there (and avoid DC housing costs), intern, take a class, and transfer credit back to their VA state school. If it was easy and they helped find DC internships, my kid might have considered that. I’m sure you can apply to be a visiting student, find your own internship from scratch or through your “base” school. But schools like American have formal programs for this and are much more seamless.

And I hate to say it about a state school but— they will rise in the rankings when they act like Pitt and actively recruit/ award merit to OOS kids for whom the location is a plus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give a summary of why people are saying it's republican/trumpy?

Because it went through a period of time in the 90s and 00s where it became a home for quite a few conservative academics, particularly in the econ department. And then that attracted some conservative students, etc etc.

They also have the Antonin Scalia School of Law on campus, so…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a commuter school. And Trumpy.

Liberal actually

Trumpier than UVA or W&M.

Well, UVA and W&M are left of center.

But so are most UMC college educated adults. They aren’t hotbeds of progressivism or anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The only thing holding GMU back is the quality of its teaching staff. Most undergrads dont care about research - they go to learn coding, accounting, business etc.

For business, I know GMU hires random folks who teach part time at GMU. Just does not inspire confidence.

Its location/size is not an issues - most colleges in Europe, Asia are similar in that regards.

But not in the United States. GMU is a commuter college that the Kock brothers have essentially purchased.

? If NoVa is full of liberals, and supposedly, most of the students are from NoVa area, how does that make GMU conservative?

Are most students from NOVA? I haven’t seen the numbers. If they are, then I’d imagine the NOVA students trend MC/LMC or nontraditional students. UMC students who can afford to leave NOVA by and large do. The UMC kids I know had GMU as the best STEM option or crushed and burned at their initial college (in two cases had mental health issues) and transferred to live at or near home and get more structure and more supports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the number of Nobel prizes it won - it's more than the rest of the State combined. It's a world class university for blue collar workers .

GMU has won zero Nobel prizes. Buchanan won when he was at UVA and years later became GMU professor. Smith received the award while he was at George Mason, but it was for work He had done at Arizona.

And the Mason hater; both were part of the faculty when they won at GMU.

VA Tech people cry for not keeping Buchanan and Arizona for Smith; If you were a student of either when they won the Nobel Prize it was at GMU.

And don't forget Supreme Court Justices becoming visiting professors at GMU Law - who cares about ideology? You land a clerk position then you are set for life. Do you get that at the slightly higher ranked Law Schools?

And a few Pulitzer Prize winners. A number which is within reach of UVA and W&M. Please don't bring up Poe - that was before GMU was even an idea.

Cry some more that your elite wine drinking snooty school hasn't destroyed the beer drinking blue collar working school. You think it's still an "only commuter school" or something more?

I don’t think it’s a Mason hater, per se. I think most people, even educated ones looking at colleges for kids, don’t track the career trajectory of individual professors, even if they won Nobel prizes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the number of Nobel prizes it won - it's more than the rest of the State combined. It's a world class university for blue collar workers .

GMU has won zero Nobel prizes. Buchanan won when he was at UVA and years later became GMU professor. Smith received the award while he was at George Mason, but it was for work He had done at Arizona.

And the Mason hater; both were part of the faculty when they won at GMU.

VA Tech people cry for not keeping Buchanan and Arizona for Smith; If you were a student of either when they won the Nobel Prize it was at GMU.

And don't forget Supreme Court Justices becoming visiting professors at GMU Law - who cares about ideology? You land a clerk position then you are set for life. Do you get that at the slightly higher ranked Law Schools?

And a few Pulitzer Prize winners. A number which is within reach of UVA and W&M. Please don't bring up Poe - that was before GMU was even an idea.

Cry some more that your elite wine drinking snooty school hasn't destroyed the beer drinking blue collar working school. You think it's still an "only commuter school" or something more?

Ummm. I think conflating law school and undergrad education is a mistake. I also think the law school may attract far right judges since it changed its name. And that could be cool. But you aren’t getting a clerkship with anyone but Thomas, and even then, you’d need to be strongly federalist society. And there is a lot of extra backstory with the woman from GMU who clerked for him. She made news for being ethically problematic (to put it mildly). But there was more to the story. She lived with Thomas for a while, knew his wife, they mentored her, encourage her to attend law school. She was unusual circumstances. In general, GMU is not a SCOTUS clerkship pipeline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give a summary of why people are saying it's republican/trumpy?

Because it went through a period of time in the 90s and 00s where it became a home for quite a few conservative academics, particularly in the econ department. And then that attracted some conservative students, etc etc.

They also have the Antonin Scalia School of Law on campus, so…

You think you are SOOO smart dinging ASSLaw -- but it's NOT on the main campus. It's in Arlington.

(And no, I wouldn't go to Scalia School of Law, but my HS senior IS going to GMU for CS, so I don't appreciate people pooping on GMU when they don't know what they are saying.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at the number of Nobel prizes it won - it's more than the rest of the State combined. It's a world class university for blue collar workers .

GMU has won zero Nobel prizes. Buchanan won when he was at UVA and years later became GMU professor. Smith received the award while he was at George Mason, but it was for work He had done at Arizona.

And the Mason hater; both were part of the faculty when they won at GMU.

VA Tech people cry for not keeping Buchanan and Arizona for Smith; If you were a student of either when they won the Nobel Prize it was at GMU.

And don't forget Supreme Court Justices becoming visiting professors at GMU Law - who cares about ideology? You land a clerk position then you are set for life. Do you get that at the slightly higher ranked Law Schools?

And a few Pulitzer Prize winners. A number which is within reach of UVA and W&M. Please don't bring up Poe - that was before GMU was even an idea.

Cry some more that your elite wine drinking snooty school hasn't destroyed the beer drinking blue collar working school. You think it's still an "only commuter school" or something more?

Ummm. I think conflating law school and undergrad education is a mistake. I also think the law school may attract far right judges since it changed its name. And that could be cool. But you aren’t getting a clerkship with anyone but Thomas, and even then, you’d need to be strongly federalist society. And there is a lot of extra backstory with the woman from GMU who clerked for him. She made news for being ethically problematic (to put it mildly). But there was more to the story. She lived with Thomas for a while, knew his wife, they mentored her, encourage her to attend law school. She was unusual circumstances. In general, GMU is not a SCOTUS clerkship pipeline.

There is a big world of extremely prestigious clerkships below SCOTUS. It is like only focusing on HYP for college. Trump appointed a lot of federal judges below SCOTUS. And a lot of these judges are hiring clerks from GMU. Here's an article from a few years ago. 10-15 years ago I would be shocked if they got one a year. Though I will admit that it is ironic that Kagan is featured in this article. I'm still fairly sure the vast majority of the clerks are for Republican-appointed judges.

https://www.law.gmu.edu/news/2021/lucky_21

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can someone give a summary of why people are saying it's republican/trumpy?

Because it went through a period of time in the 90s and 00s where it became a home for quite a few conservative academics, particularly in the econ department. And then that attracted some conservative students, etc etc.

They also have the Antonin Scalia School of Law on campus, so…

You think you are SOOO smart dinging ASSLaw -- but it's NOT on the main campus. It's in Arlington.

(And no, I wouldn't go to Scalia School of Law, but my HS senior IS going to GMU for CS, so I don't appreciate people pooping on GMU when they don't know what they are saying.)

Interesting. The question was does it lean Republican/ Trump? Not is it a good school? Not are the students smart, friendly, successful? And certainly not is it respected in CS? There are a lot of people who believe that a school being conservative/Trumpy this is a positive attribute. This is only an insult if you think conservatism is evil and that a more right of center student body translates into an inferior CS education. Which no one has suggested it does. Except you.

Trump and Republicans say enough people in this country back them that they have to a once in a generation mandate. They say the majority of the country is with them. And yet you are super offended on behalf of your prospective student that some people do believe Mason leans conservative /Trump because of a specific action the school took and the lack of sufficient backlash from alums to stop it. If enough important donors had disagreed with the Scalia naming strongly, it would not have happened. That’s economic reality.


And to be clear, I’m not a Scalia fan, but he was a classic conservative and a smart guy, with an intellectually honest (but I think incorrect) interpretation of the Constitution influential enough that they did name a law school after him and his constitutional philosophy is covered there— and in every other law school in America. Influential and respected guy, even among RGB and those of us who thought he was wrong. (And I am 99% certain Trump would horrify him if he were alive).

And yet here you are, with your back up, arguing that a law school doesn’t “count” because it’s on a different campus of the same school. When the law school may be one of the most influential parts of the school. It counts. Not toward the merits of the undergrad education. Not towards the CS programming outcomes. But towards how the campus and alums have chosen to position the school in this political landscape and how the school is perceived as a result.

You need to chill. And grow thicker skin. Or get off DCUM. Since people commenting on the name of the law school at your CS kid’s prospective college is enough to produce your rant. And if you are this defensive on behalf of a kid who isn’t even on campus, you need to retune your outrage meter. Or have your kid choose a college that you won’t feel defensive about for 4 years. Because you have issues.

Are you the same person accusing people who don’t know the full academic employment record of GMU’s Nobel laureate “GMU haters”? Seems like it. Chill.

[Anonymous]

No.

The PP said that the Scalia Law school was on campus to suggest that the campus is very conservative.

Factually incorrect that Scalia Law school is on the GMU campus. And Factually incorrect that GMU has a conservative feel.