Algebra I - 7th grade expectations

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is taking Algebra in 7th and not having issues. His friends who worked hard in 6th grade are working hard for Bs this year in Algebra. It is a high school class that moves at a fast pace. It is an honors class so there are extensions. It could be that it is a stretch for your child. It is a stretch my kids friends but they don’t seem upset by it. You can get a tutor or the answer might be to move to 7th H.

Many of kids in class had already taken Algebra prior to start of class so the MS math was review and afterschool they were taking next level course (so next year math in school will also be review for those students). The other half had tutors for most part. The teacher also addressed class as review as it was a review for majority there. Was odd.

This was our experience so if you are one of the families not getting outside tutoring, make sure your kid knows that other kids are or this is when kids who once loved math may start to think they are not as good in math as they thought. That thinking is entirely false, but may feel like it if the rest of the class already knows a concept. Suddenly your kid getting it in 5 minutes may seem slow v fast, because everyone else in class didn’t even need those 5 minutes. Make sure kid knows they are NOT behind if they are actually learning Algebra IN the class- that was originally how meant to learn it and they can still do well. Just others for whatever reason may already know things, but that doesn’t mean your kid not still on track.

A student who only does school math will not become a strong math student, regardless of level of acceleration or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is taking Algebra in 7th and not having issues. His friends who worked hard in 6th grade are working hard for Bs this year in Algebra. It is a high school class that moves at a fast pace. It is an honors class so there are extensions. It could be that it is a stretch for your child. It is a stretch my kids friends but they don’t seem upset by it. You can get a tutor or the answer might be to move to 7th H.

Many of kids in class had already taken Algebra prior to start of class so the MS math was review and afterschool they were taking next level course (so next year math in school will also be review for those students). The other half had tutors for most part. The teacher also addressed class as review as it was a review for majority there. Was odd.

This was our experience so if you are one of the families not getting outside tutoring, make sure your kid knows that other kids are or this is when kids who once loved math may start to think they are not as good in math as they thought. That thinking is entirely false, but may feel like it if the rest of the class already knows a concept. Suddenly your kid getting it in 5 minutes may seem slow v fast, because everyone else in class didn’t even need those 5 minutes. Make sure kid knows they are NOT behind if they are actually learning Algebra IN the class- that was originally how meant to learn it and they can still do well. Just others for whatever reason may already know things, but that doesn’t mean your kid not still on track.

A student who only does school math will not become a strong math student, regardless of level of acceleration or not.

If I were drinking coffee, I would have spit it out right now. My friends and family with PhDs in math and math-related subjects would strongly beg to differ. Regardless of what the schools tell our kids every August, there is such thing as a math person and while that love can indeed be killed by poor teaching plenty find their way anyway, even without RSM/AoPS/Kumon/whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mastering math is all about consistent practice. AAP Level IV is too basic, and students aren’t provided with enough practice problems to build a deep understanding. It is not until student gets to Algebra 1 they realize the gaps in learning. Many students have been successful with learning Algebra 1 in 6th grade because they had sufficient depth in the prerequisite math in previous years. At the other end of spectrum, there are kids enrolled in algebra 1 in 8th grade and still fail miserably because of shallow math learning in previous years masked by inflated grades.

+1 million. My 7th grader in Algebra 1 gets the Algebra 1 concepts just fine and completely falls flat on making stupid math mistakes sometimes. We noticed this starting in 6th and I fully blame it on her 4th and 5th grade teachers not giving much practice as homework because (and I'm quoting one of them here) "we don't want to grade it."

Yes, I should have given extra homework at the time, but I assumed because she was doing well she was mastering it. She'll end up being fine but it was a little bit of a shock when we noticed.

OP here, school is Longfellow. The above PP completely describes my kid. I have found it very difficult to know how to best navigate it all when our kid is otherwise an A student, never have to force her to study, has always done well etc…we trusted the process and the referral from last year that she was more then ready for Algebra 1, and in many ways I think she is, but the faster pacing has been difficult for her and she does make careless mistakes despite demonstrating that she understands the broader concepts. I guess we look into tutoring at this point.

At Longfellow, there is one really good Alg H teacher and two who are very mediocre to downright bad. If your child has one of the "Ps", it may have more to do with the teaching quality than the student quality. Get her some tutoring to shore up what the teacher isn't capable of doing and hang in there.

My kid is in one of the P classes and agrees. Someone switched out to get to the better teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD has been in level IV AAP throughout, scored in the 98th percentile last year on the IAAT with zero tutoring. She is self-motivated and works hard, but 7th grade has been unexpectedly challenging. In her own words, she can work her way through the assignments but it is very time consuming. She typically has an hour+ of homework/night for math. She’s frustrated that she doesn’t have time to review and study upcoming material because she has used up all her time working through equations. She has a B+ at the end of the 1st quarter, but received a D on the first exam of the second quarter. She feels like the teacher is moving too quickly through teaching the material, not that she is incapable of doing it. How can we best support her? (She is not alone, more than half the class is in the same boat as far as we can tell, with 1-3 kids who are excelling.)

A lot of math teachers can’t teach. The solution is Mathnasium.

When we went to mathnasium it didn’t seem like there was much teaching going on there either. Just a notebook and worksheets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DD has been in level IV AAP throughout, scored in the 98th percentile last year on the IAAT with zero tutoring. She is self-motivated and works hard, but 7th grade has been unexpectedly challenging. In her own words, she can work her way through the assignments but it is very time consuming. She typically has an hour+ of homework/night for math. She’s frustrated that she doesn’t have time to review and study upcoming material because she has used up all her time working through equations. She has a B+ at the end of the 1st quarter, but received a D on the first exam of the second quarter. She feels like the teacher is moving too quickly through teaching the material, not that she is incapable of doing it. How can we best support her? (She is not alone, more than half the class is in the same boat as far as we can tell, with 1-3 kids who are excelling.)

A lot of math teachers can’t teach. The solution is Mathnasium.

When we went to mathnasium it didn’t seem like there was much teaching going on there either. Just a notebook and worksheets.

Mathnasium is great if your kid has time to catch up, i.e. elementary school where grades don't matter. It doesn't help if the need to catch up or need specific help because the whole concept is laying a sufficient base of math to build on

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Mastering math is all about consistent practice. AAP Level IV is too basic, and students aren’t provided with enough practice problems to build a deep understanding. It is not until student gets to Algebra 1 they realize the gaps in learning. Many students have been successful with learning Algebra 1 in 6th grade because they had sufficient depth in the prerequisite math in previous years. At the other end of spectrum, there are kids enrolled in algebra 1 in 8th grade and still fail miserably because of shallow math learning in previous years masked by inflated grades.

+1 million. My 7th grader in Algebra 1 gets the Algebra 1 concepts just fine and completely falls flat on making stupid math mistakes sometimes. We noticed this starting in 6th and I fully blame it on her 4th and 5th grade teachers not giving much practice as homework because (and I'm quoting one of them here) "we don't want to grade it."

Yes, I should have given extra homework at the time, but I assumed because she was doing well she was mastering it. She'll end up being fine but it was a little bit of a shock when we noticed.

OP here, school is Longfellow. The above PP completely describes my kid. I have found it very difficult to know how to best navigate it all when our kid is otherwise an A student, never have to force her to study, has always done well etc…we trusted the process and the referral from last year that she was more then ready for Algebra 1, and in many ways I think she is, but the faster pacing has been difficult for her and she does make careless mistakes despite demonstrating that she understands the broader concepts. I guess we look into tutoring at this point.

At Longfellow, there is one really good Alg H teacher and two who are very mediocre to downright bad. If your child has one of the "Ps", it may have more to do with the teaching quality than the student quality. Get her some tutoring to shore up what the teacher isn't capable of doing and hang in there.

My kid is in one of the P classes and agrees. Someone switched out to get to the better teacher.

I posted earlier in the thread and my kid is in one of these classes as well. I wish I'd known sooner to push for a switch. We hired a tutor to cover the gaps in teaching and DC gets it immediately. It's very clear what they didn't know, they just weren't being taught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
A b+ is a very good grade. And also, a D is still passing.

I’m genuinely curious— why is it so bad to have a B+ in an advanced 7th grade algebra class? Seemingly concerning enough that it requires intervention with tutoring and/or outside classes. No doubt it’s an important subject. I also understand it would be ideal to master all the topics to avoid a cumulative knowledge gap, but I’m curious if there’s more to it (e.g., TJ admission?).

I have an elementary school child who is advanced, so I’m curious for future planning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
A b+ is a very good grade. And also, a D is still passing.

I’m genuinely curious— why is it so bad to have a B+ in an advanced 7th grade algebra class? Seemingly concerning enough that it requires intervention with tutoring and/or outside classes. No doubt it’s an important subject. I also understand it would be ideal to master all the topics to avoid a cumulative knowledge gap, but I’m curious if there’s more to it (e.g., TJ admission?).

I have an elementary school child who is advanced, so I’m curious for future planning.

There are 3 reasons why I got my kid a tutor:
(1) it was clear there were teaching gaps and I didn’t want that causing problems for DC in the future
(2) DC loves math, has always had innate mathematical ability, and grasps new mathematical concepts quickly. They were becoming incredibly frustrated with the lack of instruction and were starting to doubt their own ability. This was a spiral that had to be addressed.
(3) yes, they are considering applying to TJ, and we didn’t want any doors closing b/c we didn’t seek out support when we saw they clearly weren’t getting what they needed in the classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
A b+ is a very good grade. And also, a D is still passing.

I’m genuinely curious— why is it so bad to have a B+ in an advanced 7th grade algebra class? Seemingly concerning enough that it requires intervention with tutoring and/or outside classes. No doubt it’s an important subject. I also understand it would be ideal to master all the topics to avoid a cumulative knowledge gap, but I’m curious if there’s more to it (e.g., TJ admission?).

I have an elementary school child who is advanced, so I’m curious for future planning.

If you can't keep up with your class, you shouldn't be in a class 2 levels above grade level + Honors.

The math you are missing this year won't stop being important next year, and the next, and the next.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is taking Algebra in 7th and not having issues. His friends who worked hard in 6th grade are working hard for Bs this year in Algebra. It is a high school class that moves at a fast pace. It is an honors class so there are extensions. It could be that it is a stretch for your child. It is a stretch my kids friends but they don’t seem upset by it. You can get a tutor or the answer might be to move to 7th H.

Many of kids in class had already taken Algebra prior to start of class so the MS math was review and afterschool they were taking next level course (so next year math in school will also be review for those students). The other half had tutors for most part. The teacher also addressed class as review as it was a review for majority there. Was odd.

This was our experience so if you are one of the families not getting outside tutoring, make sure your kid knows that other kids are or this is when kids who once loved math may start to think they are not as good in math as they thought. That thinking is entirely false, but may feel like it if the rest of the class already knows a concept. Suddenly your kid getting it in 5 minutes may seem slow v fast, because everyone else in class didn’t even need those 5 minutes. Make sure kid knows they are NOT behind if they are actually learning Algebra IN the class- that was originally how meant to learn it and they can still do well. Just others for whatever reason may already know things, but that doesn’t mean your kid not still on track.

A student who only does school math will not become a strong math student, regardless of level of acceleration or not.

If I were drinking coffee, I would have spit it out right now. My friends and family with PhDs in math and math-related subjects would strongly beg to differ. Regardless of what the schools tell our kids every August, there is such thing as a math person and while that love can indeed be killed by poor teaching plenty find their way anyway, even without RSM/AoPS/Kumon/whatever.

My friend and family who are math professors and math-related professionals strongly beg to differ, as do my other friends and family who did well in math in school and then didn't do math afterward.

"Math people", who you know exist, do not handicap themselves to school math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is taking Algebra in 7th and not having issues. His friends who worked hard in 6th grade are working hard for Bs this year in Algebra. It is a high school class that moves at a fast pace. It is an honors class so there are extensions. It could be that it is a stretch for your child. It is a stretch my kids friends but they don’t seem upset by it. You can get a tutor or the answer might be to move to 7th H.

Many of kids in class had already taken Algebra prior to start of class so the MS math was review and afterschool they were taking next level course (so next year math in school will also be review for those students). The other half had tutors for most part. The teacher also addressed class as review as it was a review for majority there. Was odd.

This was our experience so if you are one of the families not getting outside tutoring, make sure your kid knows that other kids are or this is when kids who once loved math may start to think they are not as good in math as they thought. That thinking is entirely false, but may feel like it if the rest of the class already knows a concept. Suddenly your kid getting it in 5 minutes may seem slow v fast, because everyone else in class didn’t even need those 5 minutes. Make sure kid knows they are NOT behind if they are actually learning Algebra IN the class- that was originally how meant to learn it and they can still do well. Just others for whatever reason may already know things, but that doesn’t mean your kid not still on track.

A student who only does school math will not become a strong math student, regardless of level of acceleration or not.

If I were drinking coffee, I would have spit it out right now. My friends and family with PhDs in math and math-related subjects would strongly beg to differ. Regardless of what the schools tell our kids every August, there is such thing as a math person and while that love can indeed be killed by poor teaching plenty find their way anyway, even without RSM/AoPS/Kumon/whatever.

My friend and family who are math professors and math-related professionals strongly beg to differ, as do my other friends and family who did well in math in school and then didn't do math afterward.

"Math people", who you know exist, do not handicap themselves to school math.

Not PP but I agree with her that not all “math kids” do outside math. DD is in 11th at TJ and doing great there. She thought Alg in 7th still felt easy and too slow. She has a very strong innate math sense and grasps the concepts quickly. The only non-school math she has ever done was when she was in that 3-6 range where you try to encourage them to play counting type games at home with you. Not all math kids have to do Kumon. Now, she is not a “lives and breathes” math either though and so does not do the whole math competition thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
A b+ is a very good grade. And also, a D is still passing.

I’m genuinely curious— why is it so bad to have a B+ in an advanced 7th grade algebra class? Seemingly concerning enough that it requires intervention with tutoring and/or outside classes. No doubt it’s an important subject. I also understand it would be ideal to master all the topics to avoid a cumulative knowledge gap, but I’m curious if there’s more to it (e.g., TJ admission?).

I have an elementary school child who is advanced, so I’m curious for future planning.

If you can't keep up with your class, you shouldn't be in a class 2 levels above grade level + Honors.

The math you are missing this year won't stop being important next year, and the next, and the next.

A B+ in a class is not exactly failing. It sounds like there is an issue with the Teacher not being great and the students doing fine with a bit of tutoring. I would be worried if the kids in question were getting Cs and struggling with a tutor.

[Anonymous]

My child is in the class (not with a P) and ended up with an A. DC’s math saavy best friend is in the class with a P. Best friend has more points off for comparable mistakes on tests and taught themselves the material. Neither does supplemental math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is in the class (not with a P) and ended up with an A. DC’s math saavy best friend is in the class with a P. Best friend has more points off for comparable mistakes on tests and taught themselves the material. Neither does supplemental math.

OP, I think if your kid is in one of the P classes, you shouldn't fret about their math skills. It is more about the lack of teaching in those two classes than the child's ability to learn math. I have a kid in the non-P class and most of my kid's friends are in one of the two P classes and they all complain that they're having to learn the topics on Khan or YT. Concepts that were never taught in those classes are tested. It's pretty appalling but more parents need to complain before something can be done. But also one of the P's is the chair of the Math Department so it's difficult. Incidentally, this particular P (who is worse than the other P) was under Mr. Williams' tutelage for a while so not sure how she's become as bad as she is today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
A b+ is a very good grade. And also, a D is still passing.

I’m genuinely curious— why is it so bad to have a B+ in an advanced 7th grade algebra class? Seemingly concerning enough that it requires intervention with tutoring and/or outside classes. No doubt it’s an important subject. I also understand it would be ideal to master all the topics to avoid a cumulative knowledge gap, but I’m curious if there’s more to it (e.g., TJ admission?).

I have an elementary school child who is advanced, so I’m curious for future planning.

If you are aiming for a 4.0 unweighted GPA because you want your kid to have a shot at a top 10 college or whatever, then a B+ in math is a freak out moment. People on DCUM can be a little crazy about this sort of thing.

If you aren't in it for that...you are probably able to have a little more flexibility on B+s.