Where do you draw the line between upper middle class and upper class?

[Anonymous]

“Class” in the US is defined by a ridiculous IRS statute that classifies by income. What it needs to do is redefine income and take the percentage of that income earned necessary to consistently purchase a set of goods and services in a fiscal year. This could be accomplished by setting a standard value for these line items annually and weighing them against net income. Then define class by that percentage the greater the % the lower the “class” Now that would shake things up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

You think people making over $200K in DC/MD/VA are upper class? Absolutely not.

If you have to use salary to figure out where someone is, they're not upper class.

+1. Our HHI is 415k and we are broke. Broke as in proper savings, living on tight budget, rarely eating out, simple beach vacations, frugal shopping etc.

Broken in common sense too. If you are on a tight budget at your income you've messed up somewhere along the lines.

20k a month might sound like an awful lot to someone in Ames Iowa but it doesn't go very far in DC when 8Kmortgages are common, you have four kids to put through day care and college, you have car payments for a couple Hondas and insurance all while trying to save aggressively....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper class you stay in the ritz or equivalent on vacations. UMC, you're staying at the JW Marriott or maybe a nice Westin. Upper class you regularly fly business or first class on your European vacation. UMC you're going to Europe but you're flying coach (maybe you cc points will upgrade you if you're lucky). Upper class you have a vacation home someplace nice like the hamptons or its equivalent. UMC, you vacation at the hamptons, but you stay in a nice air bnb.
Upper class-you bought your house in the nicest neighborhood that gets you into the best public schools, but your kid is going to private. UMC, you live near the upper class neighborhood and are zoned for the same great public schools, but private would be a stretch and if you swing for private, you're going to be staying the Courtyard Marriott on your local vacays from now on.

This is silly. I have stayed in both. My preference is usually boutique hotels (Amangiri, Hotel Athénée, etc).

These are RICH people hotels, very exclusive and expensive. You have to know this...

Yes but ritz and jw marriotts appeal to the same demographic. Marriott owns Ritz now. There is not an income difference between the two, is my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

You think people making over $200K in DC/MD/VA are upper class? Absolutely not.

If you have to use salary to figure out where someone is, they're not upper class.

+1. Our HHI is 415k and we are broke. Broke as in proper savings, living on tight budget, rarely eating out, simple beach vacations, frugal shopping etc.

Broken in common sense too. If you are on a tight budget at your income you've messed up somewhere along the lines.

20k a month might sound like an awful lot to someone in Ames Iowa but it doesn't go very far in DC when 8Kmortgages are common, you have four kids to put through day care and college, you have car payments for a couple Hondas and insurance all while trying to save aggressively....

if you have an 8k mortgage that you are able to pay, you are broke by choice if you don't have extra money

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a calculator in the WaPo where you can input your income, household, and zip code:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2023/middle-class-income/

According to this we were MC 3 years ago but now we are very very far from middle class. We're still in the same house living the same way so I don't see a difference in daily life.

The definition is not based on what you decide to spend your money on, but your income level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are absolutely upper class by economic standards (hhi @$1M) but we don’t live an extremely upper class lifestyle. We live in nyc and own our home and a second home and pay for private school but we don’t take super luxury vacations and don’t fly first class with our kids, don’t buy or wear designer clothing etc. We budget and make choices about how we spend our money because it isn’t unlimited.
I think that’s the reality for a lot of UMC and UC families. There’s a big difference between $1M hhi and $10 or $100m.

oh ffs. Your are UC. You live in NYC, own a home, and a second home, and pay for private school (that probably costs like $50k/year), but you think you are only UMC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper class you stay in the ritz or equivalent on vacations. UMC, you're staying at the JW Marriott or maybe a nice Westin. Upper class you regularly fly business or first class on your European vacation. UMC you're going to Europe but you're flying coach (maybe you cc points will upgrade you if you're lucky). Upper class you have a vacation home someplace nice like the hamptons or its equivalent. UMC, you vacation at the hamptons, but you stay in a nice air bnb.
Upper class-you bought your house in the nicest neighborhood that gets you into the best public schools, but your kid is going to private. UMC, you live near the upper class neighborhood and are zoned for the same great public schools, but private would be a stretch and if you swing for private, you're going to be staying the Courtyard Marriott on your local vacays from now on.

Nope. All this is still UMC. Upper class is private jets, yachts, and the ability to spend money at Chanel if you want.

People making $1mil can do all that, if they want to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

You think people making over $200K in DC/MD/VA are upper class? Absolutely not.

If you have to use salary to figure out where someone is, they're not upper class.

+1. Our HHI is 415k and we are broke. Broke as in proper savings, living on tight budget, rarely eating out, simple beach vacations, frugal shopping etc.

Broken in common sense too. If you are on a tight budget at your income you've messed up somewhere along the lines.

20k a month might sound like an awful lot to someone in Ames Iowa but it doesn't go very far in DC when 8Kmortgages are common, you have four kids to put through day care and college, you have car payments for a couple Hondas and insurance all while trying to save aggressively....

if you have an 8k mortgage that you are able to pay, you are broke by choice if you don't have extra money

Not in DC with 4 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

You think people making over $200K in DC/MD/VA are upper class? Absolutely not.

If you have to use salary to figure out where someone is, they're not upper class.

+1. Our HHI is 415k and we are broke. Broke as in proper savings, living on tight budget, rarely eating out, simple beach vacations, frugal shopping etc.

Broken in common sense too. If you are on a tight budget at your income you've messed up somewhere along the lines.

20k a month might sound like an awful lot to someone in Ames Iowa but it doesn't go very far in DC when 8Kmortgages are common, you have four kids to put through day care and college, you have car payments for a couple Hondas and insurance all while trying to save aggressively....

if you have an 8k mortgage that you are able to pay, you are broke by choice if you don't have extra money

Not in DC with 4 kids.

4 kids? You are broke by choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

You think people making over $200K in DC/MD/VA are upper class? Absolutely not.

If you have to use salary to figure out where someone is, they're not upper class.

+1. Our HHI is 415k and we are broke. Broke as in proper savings, living on tight budget, rarely eating out, simple beach vacations, frugal shopping etc.

Broken in common sense too. If you are on a tight budget at your income you've messed up somewhere along the lines.

20k a month might sound like an awful lot to someone in Ames Iowa but it doesn't go very far in DC when 8Kmortgages are common, you have four kids to put through day care and college, you have car payments for a couple Hondas and insurance all while trying to save aggressively....

if you have an 8k mortgage that you are able to pay, you are broke by choice if you don't have extra money

Not in DC with 4 kids.

You have a nice enough house to have an 8k mortgage. That is a choice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

You think people making over $200K in DC/MD/VA are upper class? Absolutely not.

If you have to use salary to figure out where someone is, they're not upper class.

+1. Our HHI is 415k and we are broke. Broke as in proper savings, living on tight budget, rarely eating out, simple beach vacations, frugal shopping etc.

Broken in common sense too. If you are on a tight budget at your income you've messed up somewhere along the lines.

20k a month might sound like an awful lot to someone in Ames Iowa but it doesn't go very far in DC when 8Kmortgages are common, you have four kids to put through day care and college, you have car payments for a couple Hondas and insurance all while trying to save aggressively....

Yeah, you will be practically losing everything when you go to sell your $5 million mansion. /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper class is old money. They can be poor, blew all the family money But we don’t really need to concern ourselves or keep track of that. Only they do, amongst their kind.
UMC is the people in your community who live very comfortably, maybe have a second home, maybe kids are in private.
The jet setters are the new rich. Tech billionaires and the like.

At what point was the old money lost though? I doubt people with rich great grandparents call themselves upper class.

Not to you, they don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

You think people making over $200K in DC/MD/VA are upper class? Absolutely not.

If you have to use salary to figure out where someone is, they're not upper class.

+1. Our HHI is 415k and we are broke. Broke as in proper savings, living on tight budget, rarely eating out, simple beach vacations, frugal shopping etc.

Broken in common sense too. If you are on a tight budget at your income you've messed up somewhere along the lines.

20k a month might sound like an awful lot to someone in Ames Iowa but it doesn't go very far in DC when 8Kmortgages are common, you have four kids to put through day care and college, you have car payments for a couple Hondas and insurance all while trying to save aggressively....

Yeah, you will be practically losing everything when you go to sell your $5 million mansion. /s

8K mortgage in DC is like a 4 bed, 2 bath house in Rockville.

[Anonymous]

It somewhat depends on your age. If you are making $100K at 25 years old you are probably upper class among your peers. By the time you get to 40, you'd need to be closer to $200K.

Also, many middle class people live like upper class people by going into credit card debt for lavish lifestyles. The opposite is also true. Multi-millionares living modest lifestyles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper class you stay in the ritz or equivalent on vacations. UMC, you're staying at the JW Marriott or maybe a nice Westin. Upper class you regularly fly business or first class on your European vacation. UMC you're going to Europe but you're flying coach (maybe you cc points will upgrade you if you're lucky). Upper class you have a vacation home someplace nice like the hamptons or its equivalent. UMC, you vacation at the hamptons, but you stay in a nice air bnb.
Upper class-you bought your house in the nicest neighborhood that gets you into the best public schools, but your kid is going to private. UMC, you live near the upper class neighborhood and are zoned for the same great public schools, but private would be a stretch and if you swing for private, you're going to be staying the Courtyard Marriott on your local vacays from now on.

Nope. All this is still UMC. Upper class is private jets, yachts, and the ability to spend money at Chanel if you want.

Nope. It is lower rich.