Where do you draw the line between upper middle class and upper class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Fortune 500 CEOs aren't rich according to "UMC" DCUM posters. Afterall, they work.

It's a stupid assumption. It's not about choice to work, it's about having certain level of NW that if returning something like 5% (invested with low risk) can buy one UMC lifestyle in and of itself without having to work. Choosing to work to multiply millions or attain higher levels of UC doesn't count or puts one into the "working class" category, e.g. people who have to work just to live.

[Anonymous]

I think 300K HH income is the approximate cutoff for not longer "middle" class and entry level for wealthy. That's the top 5% of households. An individual earner (not combined) making $300K is at the 98th percentile. I don't think if the spouse is not working or working only part-time because they feel the time working isn't worth it is somehow "foregoing" higher status. You're making a choice that only a very privileged few have, the "sacrifice" is "merely" living very comfortably.

And before someone says "income is not wealth" I think everyone with a net worth of $3 million and/or a household income of $300K or more is wealthy.

[Anonymous]

Slight hijack to ask…can anyone tell me what my family of origin’s class was?

My late father was a career 30 year US military officer. Retired as O-6. I never gave it much thought and I’d guess middle class? Mom was a SAHM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think 300K HH income is the approximate cutoff for not longer "middle" class and entry level for wealthy. That's the top 5% of households. An individual earner (not combined) making $300K is at the 98th percentile. I don't think if the spouse is not working or working only part-time because they feel the time working isn't worth it is somehow "foregoing" higher status. You're making a choice that only a very privileged few have, the "sacrifice" is "merely" living very comfortably.

And before someone says "income is not wealth" I think everyone with a net worth of $3 million and/or a household income of $300K or more is wealthy.

300k HHI is fairly standard and average for the DC area. It's a good income and one that I personally lived with a long time, but it's not wealthy and it's not even a UMC lifestyle in many cities.

[Anonymous]

Not at all "average." Just average among people you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think 300K HH income is the approximate cutoff for not longer "middle" class and entry level for wealthy. That's the top 5% of households. An individual earner (not combined) making $300K is at the 98th percentile. I don't think if the spouse is not working or working only part-time because they feel the time working isn't worth it is somehow "foregoing" higher status. You're making a choice that only a very privileged few have, the "sacrifice" is "merely" living very comfortably.

And before someone says "income is not wealth" I think everyone with a net worth of $3 million and/or a household income of $300K or more is wealthy.

300k HHI is fairly standard and average for the DC area. It's a good income and one that I personally lived with a long time, but it's not wealthy and it's not even a UMC lifestyle in many cities.

I kinda think this too but all the official data has both average and median income around $120K-$150K. So $300 is double the high end.

[Anonymous]

Would these 2 households be the same "class" (assuming similar family size, family backgrounds etc.)

1. Household 1: 1 $250K earner, 1 SAHM or SAHD

2. Household 2: 2 earners about $125K each

You could say they're the same in that their earnings are the same. But you could also argue HH1 is "higher" because that earner probably has an especially prestigious job and can afford to forego the second income and still be UMC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Upper class doesnt have to work. They can live on dividends and businesses.

Nonsense.

That's a common definition. The dividing line between UC and UMC is the necessity to work to maintain the standard of living and to give your kids the same standard of living.

If I make several million dollars per year in income from my hedge fund job, I’m upper class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would these 2 households be the same "class" (assuming similar family size, family backgrounds etc.)

1. Household 1: 1 $250K earner, 1 SAHM or SAHD

2. Household 2: 2 earners about $125K each

You could say they're the same in that their earnings are the same. But you could also argue HH1 is "higher" because that earner probably has an especially prestigious job and can afford to forego the second income and still be UMC.

DCUM calls $250k the working poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these 2 households be the same "class" (assuming similar family size, family backgrounds etc.)

1. Household 1: 1 $250K earner, 1 SAHM or SAHD

2. Household 2: 2 earners about $125K each

You could say they're the same in that their earnings are the same. But you could also argue HH1 is "higher" because that earner probably has an especially prestigious job and can afford to forego the second income and still be UMC.

DCUM calls $250k the working poor.

"UMC" DCUM poster: Our household income is 1.1 million but we don't feel upper class. We cook our own meals and DH even does the shopping himself at Whole Foods. We have a minivan and live in a 2500 foot 4-bedroom colonial home in Bethesda. We don't have a private jet. We live very normally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

Oh yay! DH and I with our 290k HHI from 2 fed salaries and our 2,300 sq ft 1940s rambler, and 529s that will hopefully cover state schools someday are upper class! I’m so excited to hear this. We are basically the same as the people who own second homes in Nantucket and spend their breaks aboard yachts.

Yes, you are upper class. Sorry if that offends you. Does that mean you are obscenely wealthy? Not it does not. But 95 percent of households in the US make less than yours does. I don't know how much more plainly it can be put. You (like me in my similar circumstances) are upper class.

Yeah but the wage gap between the 95% and the 50% is multitudes closer than the 95% and 1%.

Someone making 300k/year is living a much closer lifestyle compared to a family making 125k/year than a family making $5M year with tons of investments etc. Also the family making 300k could become the family making 125k through some unfortunate circumstances. The 300k family is highly unlikely to ever make anywhere near the 1%.

300k is not that far from the 1%.

"According to the US Census Bureau's 2020 Current Population Survey, the percentage of American households with incomes of $300,000 or more is about 3.8%. This means that approximately 3.8% of American households have an annual income of at least $300,000 before taxes and other deductions.""

And 125K? That's about the 75th percentile.

It depends on what state you live in. The wealthiest states are Massachusetts, Connecticut, Washington state, California, New Jersey and New York. The 1% income is slightly more than $1 million per year. 300k is pretty far from the 1%

On the other hand 300k is not that far from West Virginia, Mississippi, and Kentucky’s 1% population. These states top 1% incomes are $435k to $550k. Not as big a gap.

People’s perception of wealth depends on where they live.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these 2 households be the same "class" (assuming similar family size, family backgrounds etc.)

1. Household 1: 1 $250K earner, 1 SAHM or SAHD

2. Household 2: 2 earners about $125K each

You could say they're the same in that their earnings are the same. But you could also argue HH1 is "higher" because that earner probably has an especially prestigious job and can afford to forego the second income and still be UMC.

DCUM calls $250k the working poor.

Lol. It's true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would these 2 households be the same "class" (assuming similar family size, family backgrounds etc.)

1. Household 1: 1 $250K earner, 1 SAHM or SAHD

2. Household 2: 2 earners about $125K each

You could say they're the same in that their earnings are the same. But you could also argue HH1 is "higher" because that earner probably has an especially prestigious job and can afford to forego the second income and still be UMC.

DCUM calls $250k the working poor.

"UMC" DCUM poster: Our household income is 1.1 million but we don't feel upper class. We cook our own meals and DH even does the shopping himself at Whole Foods. We have a minivan and live in a 2500 foot 4-bedroom colonial home in Bethesda. We don't have a private jet. We live very normally.

You are definitely the working poor. Imagine not having a chef. Quelle horreur.

[Anonymous]

Starting salary for a policer officer, $65k.

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/join-fcpd

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think 300K HH income is the approximate cutoff for not longer "middle" class and entry level for wealthy. That's the top 5% of households. An individual earner (not combined) making $300K is at the 98th percentile. I don't think if the spouse is not working or working only part-time because they feel the time working isn't worth it is somehow "foregoing" higher status. You're making a choice that only a very privileged few have, the "sacrifice" is "merely" living very comfortably.

And before someone says "income is not wealth" I think everyone with a net worth of $3 million and/or a household income of $300K or more is wealthy.

300k HHI is fairly standard and average for the DC area. It's a good income and one that I personally lived with a long time, but it's not wealthy and it's not even a UMC lifestyle in many cities.

I kinda think this too but all the official data has both average and median income around $120K-$150K. So $300 is double the high end.

7% of households in Maryland and 7% of households in Virginia earn more than 300K year or more. A single digit percentage is not "fairly average." The percentage is under 10% in every state.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/percentage-of-households-making-over-300k