Bait and Switch - Roster Size

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stupid question reading through this thread.

What kind of teams have this many kids? Is it ECNL or the regular club teams? My kids play for a smaller club and only have 14/15 on each team, so I’m trying to wrap my head around these numbers.

These are money grabbing ECNL and lesser extent GA teams. Some carry 25-30 kids on the teams, all selling 'exposure to college coaches,' for a $3500 price tag. Families that were on 2nd teams, now happy to be on a 1st team, not realizing they eventually take 25-30 kids.

I feel bad for the families with kids on the second team, fine with being on the second team, likely with options to play for a club without an MLSNext or ECNL top team that then lose playing time to kids not on their team

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stupid question reading through this thread.

What kind of teams have this many kids? Is it ECNL or the regular club teams? My kids play for a smaller club and only have 14/15 on each team, so I’m trying to wrap my head around these numbers.

These are money grabbing ECNL and lesser extent GA teams. Some carry 25-30 kids on the teams, all selling 'exposure to college coaches,' for a $3500 price tag. Families that were on 2nd teams, now happy to be on a 1st team, not realizing they eventually take 25-30 kids.

I feel bad for the families with kids on the second team, fine with being on the second team, likely with options to play for a club without an MLSNext or ECNL top team that then lose playing time to kids not on their team

It’s the bait and switch that is the problem. They should be honest about roster size.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stupid question reading through this thread.

What kind of teams have this many kids? Is it ECNL or the regular club teams? My kids play for a smaller club and only have 14/15 on each team, so I’m trying to wrap my head around these numbers.

These are money grabbing ECNL and lesser extent GA teams. Some carry 25-30 kids on the teams, all selling 'exposure to college coaches,' for a $3500 price tag. Families that were on 2nd teams, now happy to be on a 1st team, not realizing they eventually take 25-30 kids.

I feel bad for the families with kids on the second team, fine with being on the second team, likely with options to play for a club without an MLSNext or ECNL top team that then lose playing time to kids not on their team

It’s the bait and switch that is the problem. They should be honest about roster size.

The should be honest with the RL kids that they will lose playing time because the ECNL roster is too big for everyone to dress. Of course, those kids may more to clubs where the top team is RL or USYS and the clubs don't want that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stupid question reading through this thread.

What kind of teams have this many kids? Is it ECNL or the regular club teams? My kids play for a smaller club and only have 14/15 on each team, so I’m trying to wrap my head around these numbers.

These are money grabbing ECNL and lesser extent GA teams. Some carry 25-30 kids on the teams, all selling 'exposure to college coaches,' for a $3500 price tag. Families that were on 2nd teams, now happy to be on a 1st team, not realizing they eventually take 25-30 kids.

I feel bad for the families with kids on the second team, fine with being on the second team, likely with options to play for a club without an MLSNext or ECNL top team that then lose playing time to kids not on their team

It’s the bait and switch that is the problem. They should be honest about roster size.

The should be honest with the RL kids that they will lose playing time because the ECNL roster is too big for everyone to dress. Of course, those kids may more to clubs where the top team is RL or USYS and the clubs don't want that

Blame the parents. They make decisions for the kids, pay for it and run the Uber service.

They chase a badge or name brand club that's not a good fit for their kid.
Joining the other unhappy Jones's

[Anonymous]

I don't know. I TOTALLY don't feel this way by U17.

My kids moved to an MLSNext Club and knew they would always have to fight and prove themselves. The roster was announced each week. My oldest had an Injury that kept him out U17 so he ended up the 25th player on an MLSNext roster U18/19. It made him work, work hard. He wanted a starting spot. He put in the time and effort and didn't whine. If a lower team didn't have enough players, he went and supported them. He didn't cry and moan. He knew going in he had to prove himself. The transformation from Sept to June was amazing.

I have also been in situations with my other son where they added kids late. If the kid was truly better than any of the starters, including my own kid (which some were), I had zero qualms about my kid not getting playing time until they could show they deserved to be out there.

It's how you frame it for your kid. But, by U17 and beyond, one should be fighting for their spot every practice and every week.

If you want a spot guaranteed, play time guaranteed--than the top EcNL and MLSNext and college programs are not right for you and your kid.

[Anonymous]

U16 and I’m with you U17 parent.
I do think the original poster had a point, you ask and are told 20 and they take 25. It is the definition of bait and switch. They probably did it just to prevent some kids from switching. Is there any recourse, nope, it’s just the unnecessary painful lessons of travel soccer.
But the truth is there are no guarantees for playing time. You have to earn it, and sometimes that is against one or two dual rostered players or an unhappy kid from another Club or a kid the coach knows who guest plays for a tournament. All these things happen at almost every Club. I heard about a Club last year that went down to a Showcase in Florida with more kids than they could roster. Or how about a Club not rostering their own players for a big tournament but bring in guest players. I saw that too.
You’ve seen a lot by U16 and unfortunately you see kids that learn that they have to drop down a level because they just don’t get any playing time. It’s a long season for them and their parents and not fun for anyone.
So take a deep breath, after U13 in any League above NCSL it’s a roller coaster. Support your kid, don’t blame other kids or parents, just learn and move on if you feel necessary. Find the right team where your kid plays and has fun.

[Anonymous]

Op, name them.

Our club has 32! They are all double rostered. It’s a way to sell $$$ ECNL for younger players before parents become fully aware of the scam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the way it works at the big clubs. Even with teams that aren’t that good.

The coaches are making good money, the clubs also provide different coaching directors etc. the only way to make budget for all that is with more players.

You don’t have to be a brain surgeon to figure this one out.

But yes the only way to get better is to play significant minutes in the games. Consider doublecarding with a lower level team to get those minutes in. This is the way it is.

The only way to get better is not significant minutes in games, it's putting in the extra work outside practice and going hard at practice. How many times does your kid touch the ball if they play the full game, 10? 15? 20 times? Now how many times do they touch the ball in practice? 100? 120? game time doesn't equal development, it's a chance to put what you learned at practice into play against an opponent.

All the kids on team are getting those touches in practice. Only some of the players are getting significant game time on top of the practice time. Which players do you think are getting better development? There are situations that happen only in games when you are playing another opponent on a full field, pressure, tactics, decisions that need to be made that aren't easy to simulate in practice. Of course some player development happens in games. Not just in games, but games are very important for development.

THIS. And for players committed to play in college, game time is key to be ready. The idea that practice is enough is ridiculous and coaches know that. It's a moneygrab.

How you gonna be a college commit and you can't get in the 18 from a 23 local club roster?
Worse you can't start on a local team?

How you going to make a college roster competing against regional, national and international players?

That would be a good point if it were a 23 player roster. Except it's a 33+ player roster.

This must be an auction.
The roster size exaggerations keep climbing

Not in DC, but yes, there are 32 girls on our ECNL roster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know. I TOTALLY don't feel this way by U17.

My kids moved to an MLSNext Club and knew they would always have to fight and prove themselves. The roster was announced each week. My oldest had an Injury that kept him out U17 so he ended up the 25th player on an MLSNext roster U18/19. It made him work, work hard. He wanted a starting spot. He put in the time and effort and didn't whine. If a lower team didn't have enough players, he went and supported them. He didn't cry and moan. He knew going in he had to prove himself. The transformation from Sept to June was amazing.

I have also been in situations with my other son where they added kids late. If the kid was truly better than any of the starters, including my own kid (which some were), I had zero qualms about my kid not getting playing time until they could show they deserved to be out there.

It's how you frame it for your kid. But, by U17 and beyond, one should be fighting for their spot every practice and every week.

If you want a spot guaranteed, play time guaranteed--than the top EcNL and MLSNext and college programs are not right for you and your kid.

99% with you. I think the problem is with college recruiting that you’ve got such a limited window. For example, my DC was a starting OB, the club had a new coach who wanted to move from a 433 to a 352. Kid was the best mix of defending and go forward, but not as good a scorer as the pure wings, and not as big as the pure CB. In other words, a traditional OB in a 4-back. New coach comes in, kid is now fighting for minutes with wingers who don’t worry about defending, or with CBs that offer much more arial threat. This happens in the pros all the time, and usually they sell that player on to a team where the style fits. But with only 12-24 months of college recruiting, you are kind of screwed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know. I TOTALLY don't feel this way by U17.

My kids moved to an MLSNext Club and knew they would always have to fight and prove themselves. The roster was announced each week. My oldest had an Injury that kept him out U17 so he ended up the 25th player on an MLSNext roster U18/19. It made him work, work hard. He wanted a starting spot. He put in the time and effort and didn't whine. If a lower team didn't have enough players, he went and supported them. He didn't cry and moan. He knew going in he had to prove himself. The transformation from Sept to June was amazing.

I have also been in situations with my other son where they added kids late. If the kid was truly better than any of the starters, including my own kid (which some were), I had zero qualms about my kid not getting playing time until they could show they deserved to be out there.

It's how you frame it for your kid. But, by U17 and beyond, one should be fighting for their spot every practice and every week.

If you want a spot guaranteed, play time guaranteed--than the top EcNL and MLSNext and college programs are not right for you and your kid.

99% with you. I think the problem is with college recruiting that you’ve got such a limited window. For example, my DC was a starting OB, the club had a new coach who wanted to move from a 433 to a 352. Kid was the best mix of defending and go forward, but not as good a scorer as the pure wings, and not as big as the pure CB. In other words, a traditional OB in a 4-back. New coach comes in, kid is now fighting for minutes with wingers who don’t worry about defending, or with CBs that offer much more arial threat. This happens in the pros all the time, and usually they sell that player on to a team where the style fits. But with only 12-24 months of college recruiting, you are kind of screwed.

What's an OB?
Why couldn't he adjust?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know. I TOTALLY don't feel this way by U17.

My kids moved to an MLSNext Club and knew they would always have to fight and prove themselves. The roster was announced each week. My oldest had an Injury that kept him out U17 so he ended up the 25th player on an MLSNext roster U18/19. It made him work, work hard. He wanted a starting spot. He put in the time and effort and didn't whine. If a lower team didn't have enough players, he went and supported them. He didn't cry and moan. He knew going in he had to prove himself. The transformation from Sept to June was amazing.

I have also been in situations with my other son where they added kids late. If the kid was truly better than any of the starters, including my own kid (which some were), I had zero qualms about my kid not getting playing time until they could show they deserved to be out there.

It's how you frame it for your kid. But, by U17 and beyond, one should be fighting for their spot every practice and every week.

If you want a spot guaranteed, play time guaranteed--than the top EcNL and MLSNext and college programs are not right for you and your kid.

99% with you. I think the problem is with college recruiting that you’ve got such a limited window. For example, my DC was a starting OB, the club had a new coach who wanted to move from a 433 to a 352. Kid was the best mix of defending and go forward, but not as good a scorer as the pure wings, and not as big as the pure CB. In other words, a traditional OB in a 4-back. New coach comes in, kid is now fighting for minutes with wingers who don’t worry about defending, or with CBs that offer much more arial threat. This happens in the pros all the time, and usually they sell that player on to a team where the style fits. But with only 12-24 months of college recruiting, you are kind of screwed.

What's an OB?
Why couldn't he adjust?

OB is an outside back. In some formations, the outside back is expected to basically control the touch line on his side. Be able to move the ball up quickly, but also be locked in on defense. traditional Outside Backs are expected to be able to cross, but are often pace merchants. Antonee Robinson on USMNT/Fulham is a traditional OB. he happens to be quite tall, which means if a coach wants to switch to a different formation and have 3 CBs with 2 midfielders who drop back when under pressure, he still has a chance to play. But if you aren’t a good enough defender to really command the area like a Center Back is expected to, then the coach is going to choose a better defender over you. On the other side, if you are a good OB, but not quite as good as your existing forwards, then the coach is not going to choose to move you up field. Maybe you get moved into a midfield 5, but that can have different requirements.

Good players can adjust, but sometimes genetics plays a role and you aren’t quite the perfect fit in the formation the coach wants to use.

[Anonymous]

My kid played on a team with 25 kids, and rarely were 25 available to play - due to injury, sickness or occasional family conflict.

Generally, one or two kids who could play were left off the roster of 18 who dressed.

This was MLS Next

[Anonymous]

That's a question more families should ask: how many players MAX are you going to take?

But they don't. Coaches carry big rosters partly so they have sufficient players when injuries come which they always do at older ages. However, you need to know what the philosophy is about sitting kids out when the players are all healthy. Attendance at practice or just sheer ability to impact a game?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a good look for a Club and not fair to kids.
I do want to say I’m on the FVU boys side and no roster is bigger than 23 most 21. We also have the option to play with the RL teams from Vienna or McLean if not rostered a week.
It was all spelled out and handled fairly.
I’m not sure about the girls side and we’ll see how it plays out, but don’t believe all the hype.
I’m curious what Club you are with, if you don’t want to say it now, mention it in the Spring. Clubs should be held accountable for these sort of decisions.

whats worse is FVU is bottom of barrel on boys side. Kept mostly Brave players and the good union kids went to better clubs. So not only may you not dress. Those dressing are getting hammered in play.

[Anonymous]

if you child is not playing and has put in the work at practices, you should find another club. the brand names mean nothing when it comes to recruiting for colleges and your child does not play. been through this and it is a very bad experience. club: baltimore armour.