Colleges without overenrolled/oversubscribed Computer science

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The better private universities.

Stanford
MIT
Princeton
CMU
Duke
Rice
Northwestern
Hopkins
Penn
Cornell

A lot of publics might be better ranked in CS, but it's a pain and a slog getting a degree with so many 500/1000+ intro classes. Berkeley alone has CS classes with more than 1700 students.

Of that list with CS issues, Cornell ( https://cornellsun.com/2023/01/31/computer-and-information-science-students-struggle-with-course-enrollment-adding-stress-instead-of-classes/ ), Penn ( https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/03/computer-science-classes-coding-ivy-league-upenn-philadelphia ), Johns Hopkins (https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2017/02/over-500-waitlisted-for-comp-sci-classes ), Duke potentially (https://www.reddit.com/r/duke/comments/n0905v/duke_cs_concerns_is_it_really_as_bad_as_some_say/ ) and Rice potentially ( https://www.reddit.com/r/riceuniversity/comments/4h32r9/how_is_rice_cs/ ).
It has been a nightmare at DC's college, Umich, and I am very pessimistic about colleges ability to change this.


Can you elaborate? DC (rising senior) has never had issues with getting a class he wanted, is on track to graduate this semester with a minor. Several of his friends have already graduated (in 3 years) without issues.

Hey, DC just graduated from Mich! It's not a graduating issue, but likely a fit issue. He chose to go to a university, because he was advanced in computer science and wanted grad-level coursework/PhD (and the support wasn't great also takes forever for office hours in some courses). By his junior year, the courses he was looking to take all were immediately gone with long waitlists, and he felt like he was still scrambling after underclassmen years. It's definitely softening after first year admission restriction changes. By the time he wanted to try out grad school courses, he was met with a lot of resistance and realized it wasn't going to happen.


Entering UMich student for the fall and also having a really terrible time with the basic STEM classes kid wants. Like there is not even a waitlist. All honors classes completely full, no waitlist. Can’t take prerequisite intro classes. And he’s entering with a lot of AP credit so not sure what to take.

For the high OOS price he may just transfer after this first year.


All big schools are like this. Sad they sell one story to applicants and yet another reality exists.

Incorrect

Examples? It would help OP!

Maryland
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:The better private universities.

Stanford
MIT
Princeton
CMU
Duke
Rice
Northwestern
Hopkins
Penn
Cornell

A lot of publics might be better ranked in CS, but it's a pain and a slog getting a degree with so many 500/1000+ intro classes. Berkeley alone has CS classes with more than 1700 students.


+1000
Best list for those who want top experience and outcomes
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The better private universities.

Stanford
MIT
Princeton
CMU
Duke
Rice
Northwestern
Hopkins
Penn
Cornell

A lot of publics might be better ranked in CS, but it's a pain and a slog getting a degree with so many 500/1000+ intro classes. Berkeley alone has CS classes with more than 1700 students.


My DC graduated from Berkeley in 3 years with double major in CS and Econ w/o any summer courses. Don't believe the crowding BS. Only the 3 intro CS classes are large lecture/discussion sections. DC also was able to take graduate courses in AI, machine learning etc. as an undergraduate w/o any hassles which was great.



+1000
Anonymous
Schools that force you to declare CS in admissions are the best!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The better private universities.

Stanford
MIT
Princeton
CMU
Duke
Rice
Northwestern
Hopkins
Penn
Cornell

A lot of publics might be better ranked in CS, but it's a pain and a slog getting a degree with so many 500/1000+ intro classes. Berkeley alone has CS classes with more than 1700 students.


My DC graduated from Berkeley in 3 years with double major in CS and Econ w/o any summer courses. Don't believe the crowding BS. Only the 3 intro CS classes are large lecture/discussion sections. DC also was able to take graduate courses in AI, machine learning etc. as an undergraduate w/o any hassles which was great.


Great! If you don't mind, what is he doing now
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The better private universities.

Stanford
MIT
Princeton
CMU
Duke
Rice
Northwestern
Hopkins
Penn
Cornell

A lot of publics might be better ranked in CS, but it's a pain and a slog getting a degree with so many 500/1000+ intro classes. Berkeley alone has CS classes with more than 1700 students.


My DC graduated from Berkeley in 3 years with double major in CS and Econ w/o any summer courses. Don't believe the crowding BS. Only the 3 intro CS classes are large lecture/discussion sections. DC also was able to take graduate courses in AI, machine learning etc. as an undergraduate w/o any hassles which was great.


Great! If you don't mind, what is he doing now

DP, but DD went to Berkeley for CS and is now in VC and tech consulting. I can’t claw her back to this coast if I tried!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The better private universities.

Stanford
MIT
Princeton
CMU
Duke
Rice
Northwestern
Hopkins
Penn
Cornell

A lot of publics might be better ranked in CS, but it's a pain and a slog getting a degree with so many 500/1000+ intro classes. Berkeley alone has CS classes with more than 1700 students.

Of that list with CS issues, Cornell ( https://cornellsun.com/2023/01/31/computer-and-information-science-students-struggle-with-course-enrollment-adding-stress-instead-of-classes/ ), Penn ( https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/03/computer-science-classes-coding-ivy-league-upenn-philadelphia ), Johns Hopkins (https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2017/02/over-500-waitlisted-for-comp-sci-classes ), Duke potentially (https://www.reddit.com/r/duke/comments/n0905v/duke_cs_concerns_is_it_really_as_bad_as_some_say/ ) and Rice potentially ( https://www.reddit.com/r/riceuniversity/comments/4h32r9/how_is_rice_cs/ ).
It has been a nightmare at DC's college, Umich, and I am very pessimistic about colleges ability to change this.


Can you elaborate? DC (rising senior) has never had issues with getting a class he wanted, is on track to graduate this semester with a minor. Several of his friends have already graduated (in 3 years) without issues.

Hey, DC just graduated from Mich! It's not a graduating issue, but likely a fit issue. He chose to go to a university, because he was advanced in computer science and wanted grad-level coursework/PhD (and the support wasn't great also takes forever for office hours in some courses). By his junior year, the courses he was looking to take all were immediately gone with long waitlists, and he felt like he was still scrambling after underclassmen years. It's definitely softening after first year admission restriction changes. By the time he wanted to try out grad school courses, he was met with a lot of resistance and realized it wasn't going to happen.


Entering UMich student for the fall and also having a really terrible time with the basic STEM classes kid wants. Like there is not even a waitlist. All honors classes completely full, no waitlist. Can’t take prerequisite intro classes. And he’s entering with a lot of AP credit so not sure what to take.

For the high OOS price he may just transfer after this first year.


So I take it your kid completed the intro advising session.

Since your kid may have done that, and is unsatisfied, what next steps have you or your kid taken to ensure a better schedule? Serious question. Did you go to Orientation? When my family did, it was made clear that you can get follow-up advising appts. You can also talk to advisors for majors, and there are special ones for pre-med. Want an Honors class but can't get one? Maybe you can do honors independent study? Have you looked at Freshman Seminars? Those are not honors but they are meant to be enriching and collegial for 1st years. My kid was told to keep checking back for random openings if needed. So those might be possible.

Also, if you think your kid might need to add/drop a lot, try to move in as early as possible so they have more reaction time and are fully ready for the 1st week of classes. They should try to sit in on filled classes to talk to the prof.

I would recommend seeking advice on r/umich before this site, but if you post the major, maybe I can think of another resource or two.

U of M students are quick out of the gate. I've been reminding my incoming freshman that he has to be more attentive. He learned this from an unrelated summer job interview process too...waiting 2 days to book cost a month's time in getting an interview.

Also consider what a weird year this was for the FAFSA. Summer melt is probably still happening. And some classes may get added in August.

Good luck sorting things out to your kid's satisfaction.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The better private universities.

Stanford
MIT
Princeton
CMU
Duke
Rice
Northwestern
Hopkins
Penn
Cornell

A lot of publics might be better ranked in CS, but it's a pain and a slog getting a degree with so many 500/1000+ intro classes. Berkeley alone has CS classes with more than 1700 students.

Of that list with CS issues, Cornell ( https://cornellsun.com/2023/01/31/computer-and-information-science-students-struggle-with-course-enrollment-adding-stress-instead-of-classes/ ), Penn ( https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/03/computer-science-classes-coding-ivy-league-upenn-philadelphia ), Johns Hopkins (https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2017/02/over-500-waitlisted-for-comp-sci-classes ), Duke potentially (https://www.reddit.com/r/duke/comments/n0905v/duke_cs_concerns_is_it_really_as_bad_as_some_say/ ) and Rice potentially ( https://www.reddit.com/r/riceuniversity/comments/4h32r9/how_is_rice_cs/ ).
It has been a nightmare at DC's college, Umich, and I am very pessimistic about colleges ability to change this.


Can you elaborate? DC (rising senior) has never had issues with getting a class he wanted, is on track to graduate this semester with a minor. Several of his friends have already graduated (in 3 years) without issues.

Hey, DC just graduated from Mich! It's not a graduating issue, but likely a fit issue. He chose to go to a university, because he was advanced in computer science and wanted grad-level coursework/PhD (and the support wasn't great also takes forever for office hours in some courses). By his junior year, the courses he was looking to take all were immediately gone with long waitlists, and he felt like he was still scrambling after underclassmen years. It's definitely softening after first year admission restriction changes. By the time he wanted to try out grad school courses, he was met with a lot of resistance and realized it wasn't going to happen.


Entering UMich student for the fall and also having a really terrible time with the basic STEM classes kid wants. Like there is not even a waitlist. All honors classes completely full, no waitlist. Can’t take prerequisite intro classes. And he’s entering with a lot of AP credit so not sure what to take.

For the high OOS price he may just transfer after this first year.


So I take it your kid completed the intro advising session.

Since your kid may have done that, and is unsatisfied, what next steps have you or your kid taken to ensure a better schedule? Serious question. Did you go to Orientation? When my family did, it was made clear that you can get follow-up advising appts. You can also talk to advisors for majors, and there are special ones for pre-med. Want an Honors class but can't get one? Maybe you can do honors independent study? Have you looked at Freshman Seminars? Those are not honors but they are meant to be enriching and collegial for 1st years. My kid was told to keep checking back for random openings if needed. So those might be possible.

Also, if you think your kid might need to add/drop a lot, try to move in as early as possible so they have more reaction time and are fully ready for the 1st week of classes. They should try to sit in on filled classes to talk to the prof.

I would recommend seeking advice on r/umich before this site, but if you post the major, maybe I can think of another resource or two.

U of M students are quick out of the gate. I've been reminding my incoming freshman that he has to be more attentive. He learned this from an unrelated summer job interview process too...waiting 2 days to book cost a month's time in getting an interview.

Also consider what a weird year this was for the FAFSA. Summer melt is probably still happening. And some classes may get added in August.

Good luck sorting things out to your kid's satisfaction.



I’m a former UM Honors student and the mom of a current Honors student. I hear you on the lack of honors classes. It was much better when I was there. We had great profs and great TAs, and there were lots more Honors sections offered. That said, my kid has still loved being at UM. Even though she’s not the go-getter to somehow make sure she takes advantage of everything. So I want to reassure you that it can still be alright, your kid can probably get what he wants with some perseverance (show up to class and ask to be let in) and even if he doesn’t do that, he can still find ways to fall in love with the school.
Anonymous
I assure you there are no honors classes, no seminars for freshmen, no writing requirement classes, or really much of anything open at UMich. Nothing. All these offered classes don’t really exist at the school.

He’s written for some overrides but for most departments it’s not considered unless you’re on the waitlist. And most waitlists are closed. He’s number 50 on the waitlist for some intro classes.

EECS intro classes are open!
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The better private universities.

Stanford
MIT
Princeton
CMU
Duke
Rice
Northwestern
Hopkins
Penn
Cornell

A lot of publics might be better ranked in CS, but it's a pain and a slog getting a degree with so many 500/1000+ intro classes. Berkeley alone has CS classes with more than 1700 students.

Of that list with CS issues, Cornell ( https://cornellsun.com/2023/01/31/computer-and-information-science-students-struggle-with-course-enrollment-adding-stress-instead-of-classes/ ), Penn ( https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/03/computer-science-classes-coding-ivy-league-upenn-philadelphia ), Johns Hopkins (https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2017/02/over-500-waitlisted-for-comp-sci-classes ), Duke potentially (https://www.reddit.com/r/duke/comments/n0905v/duke_cs_concerns_is_it_really_as_bad_as_some_say/ ) and Rice potentially ( https://www.reddit.com/r/riceuniversity/comments/4h32r9/how_is_rice_cs/ ).
It has been a nightmare at DC's college, Umich, and I am very pessimistic about colleges ability to change this.


Can you elaborate? DC (rising senior) has never had issues with getting a class he wanted, is on track to graduate this semester with a minor. Several of his friends have already graduated (in 3 years) without issues.

Hey, DC just graduated from Mich! It's not a graduating issue, but likely a fit issue. He chose to go to a university, because he was advanced in computer science and wanted grad-level coursework/PhD (and the support wasn't great also takes forever for office hours in some courses). By his junior year, the courses he was looking to take all were immediately gone with long waitlists, and he felt like he was still scrambling after underclassmen years. It's definitely softening after first year admission restriction changes. By the time he wanted to try out grad school courses, he was met with a lot of resistance and realized it wasn't going to happen.


Entering UMich student for the fall and also having a really terrible time with the basic STEM classes kid wants. Like there is not even a waitlist. All honors classes completely full, no waitlist. Can’t take prerequisite intro classes. And he’s entering with a lot of AP credit so not sure what to take.

For the high OOS price he may just transfer after this first year.


All big schools are like this. Sad they sell one story to applicants and yet another reality exists.

Incorrect

Examples? It would help OP!

Maryland

UMD has restricted CS majors to 600 direct admit students, and 100 to transfers. It used to be something like 1400 total class size.

I don't think they will have too many issues with not being able to classes.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I assure you there are no honors classes, no seminars for freshmen, no writing requirement classes, or really much of anything open at UMich. Nothing. All these offered classes don’t really exist at the school.

He’s written for some overrides but for most departments it’s not considered unless you’re on the waitlist. And most waitlists are closed. He’s number 50 on the waitlist for some intro classes.

EECS intro classes are open!


So are you going to let this simmer as resentment? Or are you or your kid going to call someone in admin? You don't have to be a celebrity or a big donor. Just politely ask for help and advice. If someone can't help you, ask for a name reco of someone who might help.

My grandpa got me into a temp dorm at another university where we had no pull, just by calling the Chancellor's office and asking nicely for an appointment. He wanted me to be on campus for safety reasons and I was on a sophomore transfer housing waitlist. I learned from that.

Call the CS Department head. That person may have an early heads up on class additions coming. Call an Honors College lead. Seriously consider if your student could do research or an independent study. What is it they most want to learn about?

When I look back at college, I wish I had realized how empowered I really was. A lot of the time, the great opportunities are there for those who dig around and who ask for help (best done live, not from behind a screen).
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I assure you there are no honors classes, no seminars for freshmen, no writing requirement classes, or really much of anything open at UMich. Nothing. All these offered classes don’t really exist at the school.

He’s written for some overrides but for most departments it’s not considered unless you’re on the waitlist. And most waitlists are closed. He’s number 50 on the waitlist for some intro classes.

EECS intro classes are open!


So are you going to let this simmer as resentment? Or are you or your kid going to call someone in admin? You don't have to be a celebrity or a big donor. Just politely ask for help and advice. If someone can't help you, ask for a name reco of someone who might help.

My grandpa got me into a temp dorm at another university where we had no pull, just by calling the Chancellor's office and asking nicely for an appointment. He wanted me to be on campus for safety reasons and I was on a sophomore transfer housing waitlist. I learned from that.

Call the CS Department head. That person may have an early heads up on class additions coming. Call an Honors College lead. Seriously consider if your student could do research or an independent study. What is it they most want to learn about?

When I look back at college, I wish I had realized how empowered I really was. A lot of the time, the great opportunities are there for those who dig around and who ask for help (best done live, not from behind a screen).

What state university has the resources to start letting freshman do independent studies?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I assure you there are no honors classes, no seminars for freshmen, no writing requirement classes, or really much of anything open at UMich. Nothing. All these offered classes don’t really exist at the school.

He’s written for some overrides but for most departments it’s not considered unless you’re on the waitlist. And most waitlists are closed. He’s number 50 on the waitlist for some intro classes.

EECS intro classes are open!


So are you going to let this simmer as resentment? Or are you or your kid going to call someone in admin? You don't have to be a celebrity or a big donor. Just politely ask for help and advice. If someone can't help you, ask for a name reco of someone who might help.

My grandpa got me into a temp dorm at another university where we had no pull, just by calling the Chancellor's office and asking nicely for an appointment. He wanted me to be on campus for safety reasons and I was on a sophomore transfer housing waitlist. I learned from that.

Call the CS Department head. That person may have an early heads up on class additions coming. Call an Honors College lead. Seriously consider if your student could do research or an independent study. What is it they most want to learn about?

When I look back at college, I wish I had realized how empowered I really was. A lot of the time, the great opportunities are there for those who dig around and who ask for help (best done live, not from behind a screen).

What state university has the resources to start letting freshman do independent studies?


Honors colleges often allow leeway for you to do whatever as long as you have a valid plan. Maybe you have to persuade a faculty member to take an interest in you to sponsor the class (e.g., meet with you and grade the work). Large state universities have tons of faculty members. It's worth a try.

If not independent study in Honors, are there any Entrepreneurship classes open?

https://cfe.umich.edu/learn/entrepreneurial-courses/courses/
Anonymous
Harvard has had very small classes for DC.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The better private universities.

Stanford
MIT
Princeton
CMU
Duke
Rice
Northwestern
Hopkins
Penn
Cornell

A lot of publics might be better ranked in CS, but it's a pain and a slog getting a degree with so many 500/1000+ intro classes. Berkeley alone has CS classes with more than 1700 students.

Of that list with CS issues, Cornell ( https://cornellsun.com/2023/01/31/computer-and-information-science-students-struggle-with-course-enrollment-adding-stress-instead-of-classes/ ), Penn ( https://www.thedp.com/article/2019/03/computer-science-classes-coding-ivy-league-upenn-philadelphia ), Johns Hopkins (https://www.jhunewsletter.com/article/2017/02/over-500-waitlisted-for-comp-sci-classes ), Duke potentially (https://www.reddit.com/r/duke/comments/n0905v/duke_cs_concerns_is_it_really_as_bad_as_some_say/ ) and Rice potentially ( https://www.reddit.com/r/riceuniversity/comments/4h32r9/how_is_rice_cs/ ).
It has been a nightmare at DC's college, Umich, and I am very pessimistic about colleges ability to change this.


Can you elaborate? DC (rising senior) has never had issues with getting a class he wanted, is on track to graduate this semester with a minor. Several of his friends have already graduated (in 3 years) without issues.

Hey, DC just graduated from Mich! It's not a graduating issue, but likely a fit issue. He chose to go to a university, because he was advanced in computer science and wanted grad-level coursework/PhD (and the support wasn't great also takes forever for office hours in some courses). By his junior year, the courses he was looking to take all were immediately gone with long waitlists, and he felt like he was still scrambling after underclassmen years. It's definitely softening after first year admission restriction changes. By the time he wanted to try out grad school courses, he was met with a lot of resistance and realized it wasn't going to happen.


Entering UMich student for the fall and also having a really terrible time with the basic STEM classes kid wants. Like there is not even a waitlist. All honors classes completely full, no waitlist. Can’t take prerequisite intro classes. And he’s entering with a lot of AP credit so not sure what to take.

For the high OOS price he may just transfer after this first year.


All big schools are like this. Sad they sell one story to applicants and yet another reality exists.

Incorrect

Examples? It would help OP!

Maryland

UMD has restricted CS majors to 600 direct admit students, and 100 to transfers. It used to be something like 1400 total class size.

I don't think they will have too many issues with not being able to classes.


Yeah but no chance to get into CS if not direct admit. I wouldn't "hope for the best" with the 100 transfer slots.

Pick a school like WPI/RPI/CWRU/Rochester that allows your kid to major in whatever they want. No programs are direct admit (except perhaps nursing which is a strict 4 year program and has to have space for clinicals) Then your kid can major/minor in what they actually want, not what the school allows them to
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