Thoughts on help for the SAT/ACT for a smart student who is struggling with these tests

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have twins.
They both do equally well at a rigorous school that is very stingy with As.
One is in harder classes (physics C, multivariate, etc).

The one in the easier classes takes standardized tests extremely well. NO PREP. First try ACT 35. First try SAT 1540/
The one in the harder classes just really struggles with the ACT/SAT. Scores have been 1410 and now 1360. ACT was 27.
He/she has done fine on AP exams (all 5). There is something about the SAT/ACT that he/she cannot perform on.
He/she has done extensive prep (several hours a week doing problems for months).

We're realizing that this kid probably has some sort of undiagnosed learning issue (too late for this now).
He/she can't read at the speed needed for the passages (even the short ones on the digital SAT). Has to read
things 2 and 3 times to focus. Also having issues with the math although it's less clear what.
Where would you go from here?
They're not going to apply to Ivies but we were hoping for reasonably competitive schools.
If not applying test optional, is there some way to do intensive prep?

It's so frustrating because on a daily basis these kids perform the same or if anything the second one is a stronger student in harder classes and able to grasp more abstract concepts.

Thoughts on what to do about prep?

Sorry OP,

Something isn’t adding up. You have a junior who is so far ahead in math that he/she is taking multivariable calc (and has an A or A-) as a junior AND has taken multiple AP tests and gotten 5s on each but is struggling with SAT/ACT after working with a tutor? This makes no sense. Perhaps you’ve embellished to hide identity?

I’d say it’s test anxiety, but so many things don’t add up that I’m just skeptical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone can score a 35. A 27, a score in the 85th percentile, doesn't automatically mean there is a diagnosable learning difference. Isn't the average ACT score like a 20? I suppose you could try to get a diagnosis to get extended time, if time allows. However, isn't the time crunch supposed to be part of what makes the test a challenge?

Yeah, I graduated 20 years ago and 27 was considered a very good score. 35 was an out-of-this-world score that only one kid in my 2000-student UMC high school got (me) and I haven't had the career to show for it. I don't see where a 27 ACT is "struggling" unless the scoring has been completely revamped and all the kids are above average now.

THIS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have twins.
They both do equally well at a rigorous school that is very stingy with As.
One is in harder classes (physics C, multivariate, etc).

The one in the easier classes takes standardized tests extremely well. NO PREP. First try ACT 35. First try SAT 1540/
The one in the harder classes just really struggles with the ACT/SAT. Scores have been 1410 and now 1360. ACT was 27.
He/she has done fine on AP exams (all 5). There is something about the SAT/ACT that he/she cannot perform on.
He/she has done extensive prep (several hours a week doing problems for months).

We're realizing that this kid probably has some sort of undiagnosed learning issue (too late for this now).
He/she can't read at the speed needed for the passages (even the short ones on the digital SAT). Has to read
things 2 and 3 times to focus. Also having issues with the math although it's less clear what.
Where would you go from here?
They're not going to apply to Ivies but we were hoping for reasonably competitive schools.
If not applying test optional, is there some way to do intensive prep?

It's so frustrating because on a daily basis these kids perform the same or if anything the second one is a stronger student in harder classes and able to grasp more abstract concepts.

Thoughts on what to do about prep?

Sorry OP,

Something isn’t adding up. You have a junior who is so far ahead in math that he/she is taking multivariable calc (and has an A or A-) as a junior AND has taken multiple AP tests and gotten 5s on each but is struggling with SAT/ACT after working with a tutor? This makes no sense. Perhaps you’ve embellished to hide identity?

I’d say it’s test anxiety, but so many things don’t add up that I’m just skeptical.

+1000

[Anonymous]

A lot of people can get good grades but not super high test scores. You can study material for a long time until you eventually absorb it well enough to get an "A" in school. This is not the same skill as being able to score high on a timed standardized test. The "worst student" out of mine scores the highest, while the one with all As scores lower. For some students, the stars align, and they are both motivated to get all As and able to score high.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone can score a 35. A 27, a score in the 85th percentile, doesn't automatically mean there is a diagnosable learning difference. Isn't the average ACT score like a 20? I suppose you could try to get a diagnosis to get extended time, if time allows. However, isn't the time crunch supposed to be part of what makes the test a challenge?

Yeah, I graduated 20 years ago and 27 was considered a very good score. 35 was an out-of-this-world score that only one kid in my 2000-student UMC high school got (me) and I haven't had the career to show for it. I don't see where a 27 ACT is "struggling" unless the scoring has been completely revamped and all the kids are above average now.

THIS

Bc everyone on DCUM DESERVES to be able to get into a top school. The bell curve is ingored and inapplicable bc everyone on DCUM is or should automatically be at the very end of the distribution. If not, there must be a diagnosable difference bc it is impossible that anyone on DCUM would be towards the middle or, gasp, below the curve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone can score a 35. A 27, a score in the 85th percentile, doesn't automatically mean there is a diagnosable learning difference. Isn't the average ACT score like a 20? I suppose you could try to get a diagnosis to get extended time, if time allows. However, isn't the time crunch supposed to be part of what makes the test a challenge?

Yeah, I graduated 20 years ago and 27 was considered a very good score. 35 was an out-of-this-world score that only one kid in my 2000-student UMC high school got (me) and I haven't had the career to show for it. I don't see where a 27 ACT is "struggling" unless the scoring has been completely revamped and all the kids are above average now.

THIS

Bc everyone on DCUM DESERVES to be able to get into a top school. The bell curve is ingored and inapplicable bc everyone on DCUM is or should automatically be at the very end of the distribution. If not, there must be a diagnosable difference bc it is impossible that anyone on DCUM would be towards the middle or, gasp, below the curve.

That’s a good point, but OP claims this student is so advanced that he/she is way ahead in math and multiple APs taken prior with the highest score.

Doesn’t sound so “average”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not everyone can score a 35. A 27, a score in the 85th percentile, doesn't automatically mean there is a diagnosable learning difference. Isn't the average ACT score like a 20? I suppose you could try to get a diagnosis to get extended time, if time allows. However, isn't the time crunch supposed to be part of what makes the test a challenge?

Yeah, I graduated 20 years ago and 27 was considered a very good score. 35 was an out-of-this-world score that only one kid in my 2000-student UMC high school got (me) and I haven't had the career to show for it. I don't see where a 27 ACT is "struggling" unless the scoring has been completely revamped and all the kids are above average now.

THIS

Bc everyone on DCUM DESERVES to be able to get into a top school. The bell curve is ingored and inapplicable bc everyone on DCUM is or should automatically be at the very end of the distribution. If not, there must be a diagnosable difference bc it is impossible that anyone on DCUM would be towards the middle or, gasp, below the curve.

That’s a good point, but OP claims this student is so advanced that he/she is way ahead in math and multiple APs taken prior with the highest score.

Doesn’t sound so “average”.

No, but you can study the material for AP tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have twins.
They both do equally well at a rigorous school that is very stingy with As.
One is in harder classes (physics C, multivariate, etc).

The one in the easier classes takes standardized tests extremely well. NO PREP. First try ACT 35. First try SAT 1540/
The one in the harder classes just really struggles with the ACT/SAT. Scores have been 1410 and now 1360. ACT was 27.
He/she has done fine on AP exams (all 5). There is something about the SAT/ACT that he/she cannot perform on.
He/she has done extensive prep (several hours a week doing problems for months).

We're realizing that this kid probably has some sort of undiagnosed learning issue (too late for this now).
He/she can't read at the speed needed for the passages (even the short ones on the digital SAT). Has to read
things 2 and 3 times to focus. Also having issues with the math although it's less clear what.
Where would you go from here?
They're not going to apply to Ivies but we were hoping for reasonably competitive schools.
If not applying test optional, is there some way to do intensive prep?

It's so frustrating because on a daily basis these kids perform the same or if anything the second one is a stronger student in harder classes and able to grasp more abstract concepts.

Thoughts on what to do about prep?

Sorry OP,

Something isn’t adding up. You have a junior who is so far ahead in math that he/she is taking multivariable calc (and has an A or A-) as a junior AND has taken multiple AP tests and gotten 5s on each but is struggling with SAT/ACT after working with a tutor? This makes no sense. Perhaps you’ve embellished to hide identity?

I’d say it’s test anxiety, but so many things don’t add up that I’m just skeptical.

NP to the thread and I agree. Public schools often have the mean as an A- , and a 1410 could be the top10% at public school, however this is still strange as that math level is typically for the 99th%ile kids who have zero trouble with SAT math. The student seems as though they were over-accelerated and does not have a concept of the basics. I am not anti-acceleration--one of mine was moved into the next grade just for math(ie Algebra 1 in 6th--Calc 10th), by the school's urging, not by us, and that kid and the other kid who did it aced the SAT math with zero prep, as did many of the kids a level below(Algebra in 7th--Calc in 11th). I would be curious which APs were taken that resulted in 5s? Something is certainly off.

[Anonymous]

How does a kid who took Calculus in 10th grade have a 27 ACT? My 11th grade DC took Algebra 1 Honors in 9th and scored a 35 on the ACT.

[Anonymous]

OMFG. Are you a troll??

Getting 1410 on the SAT does NOT mean you have an undiagnosed learning disability. WTAF.

A 1410 is still above the ninetieth percentile!

Back the F off, tell your kid congrats on getting a 1410, and decide case by case for each school whether to submit the SAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought the new adaptive SAT is much more generous with time.

That is true only if you land in the easier module.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How does a kid who took Calculus in 10th grade have a 27 ACT? My 11th grade DC took Algebra 1 Honors in 9th and scored a 35 on the ACT.

Math isn’t weighted very much on ACT, which is why those who are good in math take the SAT. Also, Calc isn’t tested, rather concepts taught at an earlier age which may be forgotten.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does a kid who took Calculus in 10th grade have a 27 ACT? My 11th grade DC took Algebra 1 Honors in 9th and scored a 35 on the ACT.

Math isn’t weighted very much on ACT, which is why those who are good in math take the SAT. Also, Calc isn’t tested, rather concepts taught at an earlier age which may be forgotten.

All true. However an appropriately accelerated math student could easily skim some practice problems and remind themselves of algebra and trig. SAT math is not hard for someone who was appropriately accelerated this far ahead. This student must have been pushed ahead very inappropriately and lacks the basics significantly, as hours of prep and practice have not helped. 1380-1410 is not a bad score range by any means, it just speaks to the fact that something very odd has happened along the way for this student. Hopefully they will get into a college that is right for their actual level of preparedness, so they can thrive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OMFG. Are you a troll??

Getting 1410 on the SAT does NOT mean you have an undiagnosed learning disability. WTAF.

A 1410 is still above the ninetieth percentile!

Back the F off, tell your kid congrats on getting a 1410, and decide case by case for each school whether to submit the SAT.

Not OP. This is too harsh. The disconnect and presentation with a panicked edge is likely due to the fact that the student is so far ahead in math that the parent has believed this student to be a top 1-2%kid intelligence wise. Part of this falls on the school for letting the student get this far ahead --there must have been testing along the way that indicated 90th%ile, meaning no competent school should have allowed this extreme advancement, but I suppose the parent may be unaware.

[Anonymous]

I'm the OP. Kid got 5s on Calc BC, AP Bio, AP English literature, AP Spanish Language. Took Physics C this year and feels like it was also a 5.

I'm not sure what the disconnect is with the ACT and SAT. The kids feels that it is a timing thing--he/she feels that the APs give far more time for the required material.