Thoughts on help for the SAT/ACT for a smart student who is struggling with these tests

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If no improvement after months of tutoring, I would have the kid stop and work with the test scores they have. Three attempts is plenty.

Curious why it is not ok in family dynamics for one kid to be better at school and other to be better in standardized tests? Doesn’t the standardized test kid get to be better at something?

It doesn't come from us. The twins compare themselves with everything. The amount of money they made last summer, the miles they drove when getting their drivers' licenses, the ice cream sandwiches they ate last week...

Twins are an exceedingly interesting dynamic. Their entire world (teachers, friends, neighbors, their pediatrician) compares them to each other constantly. As parents you fight against this from the minute they're born when the nurses make comments on who is longer and who weighs more. The kids internalize this when it's all they hear for years. As parents you spend their entire lives trying to make people see them as individuals.

It's entirely different with our other kids (we have 2 more). They don't compare things to each other or their siblings.

Just wanted to chime in as a mother of twins that I'm right there with you. The constant comparison can be really difficult for twins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gender does matter. When looking at the scores for higher scoring students boys score higher than girls.

For example a score of 1400 is on the 95th percentile for girls but only the 92nd for boys.

A math score of 750 is the 97th percentile for girls and the 94th for boys.

Is this for English as well or just math

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If no improvement after months of tutoring, I would have the kid stop and work with the test scores they have. Three attempts is plenty.

Curious why it is not ok in family dynamics for one kid to be better at school and other to be better in standardized tests? Doesn’t the standardized test kid get to be better at something?

It doesn't come from us. The twins compare themselves with everything. The amount of money they made last summer, the miles they drove when getting their drivers' licenses, the ice cream sandwiches they ate last week...

Twins are an exceedingly interesting dynamic. Their entire world (teachers, friends, neighbors, their pediatrician) compares them to each other constantly. As parents you fight against this from the minute they're born when the nurses make comments on who is longer and who weighs more. The kids internalize this when it's all they hear for years. As parents you spend their entire lives trying to make people see them as individuals.

It's entirely different with our other kids (we have 2 more). They don't compare things to each other or their siblings.

I get that, but let’s call them Twin A and Twin B. Twin B has presumably accepted that Twin A is better at certain test subjects to, Twin A should be encouraged to accept that Twin B is better at standardized tests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gender does matter. When looking at the scores for higher scoring students boys score higher than girls.

For example a score of 1400 is on the 95th percentile for girls but only the 92nd for boys.

A math score of 750 is the 97th percentile for girls and the 94th for boys.

Is this for English as well or just math

Dp, but just math, girls do better on the verbal section.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have twins.
They both do equally well at a rigorous school that is very stingy with As.
One is in harder classes (physics C, multivariate, etc).

The one in the easier classes takes standardized tests extremely well. NO PREP. First try ACT 35. First try SAT 1540/
The one in the harder classes just really struggles with the ACT/SAT. Scores have been 1410 and now 1360. ACT was 27.
He/she has done fine on AP exams (all 5). There is something about the SAT/ACT that he/she cannot perform on.
He/she has done extensive prep (several hours a week doing problems for months).

We're realizing that this kid probably has some sort of undiagnosed learning issue (too late for this now).
He/she can't read at the speed needed for the passages (even the short ones on the digital SAT). Has to read
things 2 and 3 times to focus. Also having issues with the math although it's less clear what.
Where would you go from here?
They're not going to apply to Ivies but we were hoping for reasonably competitive schools.
If not applying test optional, is there some way to do intensive prep?

It's so frustrating because on a daily basis these kids perform the same or if anything the second one is a stronger student in harder classes and able to grasp more abstract concepts.

Thoughts on what to do about prep?

could be ADD ... math is still about reading pretty fast, they get 1 min/problem

[Anonymous]

^forgot to add: test optional really benefits girls who have higher gpa’s but lower SAT scores at the highest levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^forgot to add: test optional really benefits girls who have higher gpa’s but lower SAT scores at the highest levels.

Unless hooked, I don’t expect this to be true this cycle, and test optional likely to be gone by the following cycle. If applying test optional, I would look at the schools that were test optional pre covid, like Bowdoin and Wake.

[Anonymous]

offer her tutoring

[Anonymous]

I thought the new adaptive SAT is much more generous with time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If no improvement after months of tutoring, I would have the kid stop and work with the test scores they have. Three attempts is plenty.

Curious why it is not ok in family dynamics for one kid to be better at school and other to be better in standardized tests? Doesn’t the standardized test kid get to be better at something?

It doesn't come from us. The twins compare themselves with everything. The amount of money they made last summer, the miles they drove when getting their drivers' licenses, the ice cream sandwiches they ate last week...

Twins are an exceedingly interesting dynamic. Their entire world (teachers, friends, neighbors, their pediatrician) compares them to each other constantly. As parents you fight against this from the minute they're born when the nurses make comments on who is longer and who weighs more. The kids internalize this when it's all they hear for years. As parents you spend their entire lives trying to make people see them as individuals.

It's entirely different with our other kids (we have 2 more). They don't compare things to each other or their siblings.

I get that, but let’s call them Twin A and Twin B. Twin B has presumably accepted that Twin A is better at certain test subjects to, Twin A should be encouraged to accept that Twin B is better at standardized tests.

When you have twins and their GPAs are a few 100ths of a percentile within each other and one gets a 27 on an ACT and one gets a 35 on the same test you don't just shrug and say "cool! Guess one's better at standardized testing" and go on your merry way as if you were just told that one is good at basketball and one is better at swimming. Any parent with a pulse would be given pause and would think this through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:offer her tutoring

Op reports months of tutoring before most recent test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If no improvement after months of tutoring, I would have the kid stop and work with the test scores they have. Three attempts is plenty.

Curious why it is not ok in family dynamics for one kid to be better at school and other to be better in standardized tests? Doesn’t the standardized test kid get to be better at something?

It doesn't come from us. The twins compare themselves with everything. The amount of money they made last summer, the miles they drove when getting their drivers' licenses, the ice cream sandwiches they ate last week...

Twins are an exceedingly interesting dynamic. Their entire world (teachers, friends, neighbors, their pediatrician) compares them to each other constantly. As parents you fight against this from the minute they're born when the nurses make comments on who is longer and who weighs more. The kids internalize this when it's all they hear for years. As parents you spend their entire lives trying to make people see them as individuals.

It's entirely different with our other kids (we have 2 more). They don't compare things to each other or their siblings.

I get that, but let’s call them Twin A and Twin B. Twin B has presumably accepted that Twin A is better at certain test subjects to, Twin A should be encouraged to accept that Twin B is better at standardized tests.

When you have twins and their GPAs are a few 100ths of a percentile within each other and one gets a 27 on an ACT and one gets a 35 on the same test you don't just shrug and say "cool! Guess one's better at standardized testing" and go on your merry way as if you were just told that one is good at basketball and one is better at swimming. Any parent with a pulse would be given pause and would think this through.

One is in more rigorous classes though.

If months of tutoring haven’t improved the score, there really isn’t anything left to do but accept that test optional is probably the best route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid just went test optional- doing great in college

more and more colleges are requiring tests.

OP, maybe send your kid to SAT prep. I think it's about confidence. I have two DCs and they are like yours: one got a 1580 first (and only) try; the other is struggling with their psat.

I'm the OP. Thank you!
He/she has been doing 2 hours of prep a weekend with a tutor (1:3 ratio--1 tutor, 3 kids) for months. I bought a package of hours at a place (not super high end place but an established company). My first kid never even went (had some schedule conflicts) and then got the high scores and that was that.

This second kid has been doing questions with the tutor. Probably 15 visits for 2 hours a time?

Are are there better tutoring options?

I am so frustrated by this. Not because I care that much about the scores. I ultimately don't. He/she could go test optional or apply to different schools.
Because within the dynamic of our family (twins) it is causing such an issue. As parents we don't talk about it. We are as chill as can be. Never mention the SAT or ACT. But the second kid compares himself/herself to the sibling. I know that life isn't fair, we don't all succeed at everything, etc. And it very well might be that twin #2 never figures this out. But I'm in the information gathering stage to see if there is more help that we can get before we call it a day

First, if your kid is willing to let it go, go ahead TO. If your kid wants to try again, stick with the SAT and get a different tutor. The one they have is not working for them for whatever reason. Your kid needs to think of it as a rote activity and pattern recognition rather than a "test".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have twins.
They both do equally well at a rigorous school that is very stingy with As.
One is in harder classes (physics C, multivariate, etc).

The one in the easier classes takes standardized tests extremely well. NO PREP. First try ACT 35. First try SAT 1540/
The one in the harder classes just really struggles with the ACT/SAT. Scores have been 1410 and now 1360. ACT was 27.
He/she has done fine on AP exams (all 5). There is something about the SAT/ACT that he/she cannot perform on.
He/she has done extensive prep (several hours a week doing problems for months).

We're realizing that this kid probably has some sort of undiagnosed learning issue (too late for this now).
He/she can't read at the speed needed for the passages (even the short ones on the digital SAT). Has to read
things 2 and 3 times to focus. Also having issues with the math although it's less clear what.
Where would you go from here?
They're not going to apply to Ivies but we were hoping for reasonably competitive schools.
If not applying test optional, is there some way to do intensive prep?

It's so frustrating because on a daily basis these kids perform the same or if anything the second one is a stronger student in harder classes and able to grasp more abstract concepts.

Thoughts on what to do about prep?

could be ADD ... math is still about reading pretty fast, they get 1 min/problem

There is no way that a kid could keep up with advanced math high school math classes and have undiagnosed ADD or slow processing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gender does matter. When looking at the scores for higher scoring students boys score higher than girls.

For example a score of 1400 is on the 95th percentile for girls but only the 92nd for boys.

A math score of 750 is the 97th percentile for girls and the 94th for boys.

Is this for English as well or just math

Dp, but just math, girls do better on the verbal section.

No girls actually don’t when looking at what students score in the highest percentile ranks. A verbal section /ERE score of 750 is the 98th percentile rank fir boys and girls. 700 is the 94th percentile rank for both boys and girls. At 650 that is the 86th percentile for boys and the 85th for boys