Competitive academics - what to tell the smart, hard-working kid who isn't "the best"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, the reality is - and you’re not going to like this - some of those kids are just smarter. They don’t have to work as hard. Particularly the ones also excelling at sports. They aren’t “winning” because they’re doing so much more. This isn’t all of those kids, but a chunk. The lesson is that there is always going to be someone smarter than you, better than you, richer than you, someone less smart, less gifted, less affluent. Comparison is silly. Success is not pie, someone having some doesn’t mean you can’t have any. Sure it may for these honors right now, but not in any big picture sense. Let her make peace with being average. Average is okay.

This is weird DCUM word salad.

First, you are literally comparing students and saying some are smarter and then saying "comparison is silly." That's meaningless. If some kids are being recognized as better for certain skill sets, you can say "comparison is silly" until you are blue in the face and your kid will know you are lying because they live in a world where comparison is prevalent and meaningful. Yes, their world is narrow right now. It still exists. And comparison is forced upon these kids.

Second, we're talking about a kid who gets great grades, makes honor roll, and receives awards for excellence in a couple areas where they really excel. That kid is not academically average. They are only average if you are only looking at the subset of kids who actually care about and work at academics, which is not the majority of kids. That kid is above average academically. They may not be a superstar, but hey aren't "average." An average kid is getting some Bs and Cs, doesn't always do their homework, but gets by and is going to graduate. They aren't winning writing awards and studying earth sciences in their free time in 10th grade.

And yes, average is okay. But when you tell a kid who is clearly academically inclined and hard working (if not some kind of genius or superstar, but clearly smart and disciplined) they are just average, what does that make the actually average kids? Some of you have no sense of perspective about all of this. You really and truly believe that if a kid isn't getting a 1600 on the SAT and getting admitted to the tippy top schools, they are just average and need to just suck it up and deal. No wonder the college boards are constantly in full meltdown mode -- your standards are psychotic.

It’s not word salad and you seem to be incapable of realizing that comparison is silly entirely squares with the concept that some people are better and some worse than you - this will always be true and so worrying about it, being surprised at the fact, and engaging in comparing is silly. It’s safe to assume some people are smarter and some less than. That’s the point. I can’t help you anymore with this concept.

You are determined to frame it as a hierarchy though, and it's not. It's not even accurate to say that the kids at the tippy top are smarter than those a little below them. Some would argue it's smarter to invest more energy in things you love and not put all your energy and effort into getting into a super competitive college, where even incredibly high achieving kids are regularly rejected. Other people will argue that it's the kids who are good enough academically while really developing soft skills who are "smartest" because while top grades and test scores can get you into good colleges, they will not on their own get you great jobs or promotions. And so on. There are many, many kinds of smart, and the way you avoid the comparison game is not by ranking everyone and making peace with your rank, but understanding any ranking is only going to measure people along one or a handful of metrics, and it's not the be all and end all.

You seem determined or simply incapable of understanding that for some, and this is true at my kids private “top three” in DC - the kids that do the very very best are not killing themselves. They are well rounded, play sports and are simply exceptional. There are exceptional people. That’s simply a truism. Accepting that isn’t harmful. For example, Gisele exists. Most of us are not even in her remote realm. Fighting that is simply just pointless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, the reality is - and you’re not going to like this - some of those kids are just smarter. They don’t have to work as hard. Particularly the ones also excelling at sports. They aren’t “winning” because they’re doing so much more. This isn’t all of those kids, but a chunk. The lesson is that there is always going to be someone smarter than you, better than you, richer than you, someone less smart, less gifted, less affluent. Comparison is silly. Success is not pie, someone having some doesn’t mean you can’t have any. Sure it may for these honors right now, but not in any big picture sense. Let her make peace with being average. Average is okay.

+1. OP, it sounds like you’re doing a great job telling your kid this. But the assumption that all of these kids are “winning” only because they work harder does make it sound like you are not fully at peace with this either. Though I do think most of us here do struggle with this too…

The thing is, this is the best explanation even if it's not true.

If you tell a 15 year old "those kids are winning all the awards because they are smarter than you," it's too demoralizing. It might be true in some cases, but you can't tell a teenager who cares about this stuff that. You don't want to give your kid a reason to give up.

Also, hard work actually DOES matter. And an academically inclined kid who really, really wants to win some top academic prize (a scholarship, an honor, whatever) can do it even if they don't have the highest IQ. You absolutely can close the gap with discipline and perseverance in most cases. It's true in sports too. That doesn't mean you HAVE to put that work in -- you might decide that the amount you'd have to work in order to do as well as someone who is just inherently more talented than you isn't worth it. And that's fine. But most of the time, it is possible. In fact, among the kids who are winning all the awards, they are probably both -- inherently very intelligent/talented and also super hard working.

There's just no reason to tell a child "well yeah, those kids are just smarter than you." Especially if that child actually really cares about school and wants to pursue academics. You need to leave open the door for them. And you can do that with "okay you didn't win this time but if you really want it, you can work at it and get it." This is a no brainer to me.

That’s not what I meant at all. Someone out there will always be smarter. That fact should not be demoralizing. Kids should learn to accept and still work hard for themselves. That’s what I meant by make peace with it, which is what I thought the prior poster also meant.

Working hard does matter more. I agree. No argument from me there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, the reality is - and you’re not going to like this - some of those kids are just smarter. They don’t have to work as hard. Particularly the ones also excelling at sports. They aren’t “winning” because they’re doing so much more. This isn’t all of those kids, but a chunk. The lesson is that there is always going to be someone smarter than you, better than you, richer than you, someone less smart, less gifted, less affluent. Comparison is silly. Success is not pie, someone having some doesn’t mean you can’t have any. Sure it may for these honors right now, but not in any big picture sense. Let her make peace with being average. Average is okay.

This is weird DCUM word salad.

First, you are literally comparing students and saying some are smarter and then saying "comparison is silly." That's meaningless. If some kids are being recognized as better for certain skill sets, you can say "comparison is silly" until you are blue in the face and your kid will know you are lying because they live in a world where comparison is prevalent and meaningful. Yes, their world is narrow right now. It still exists. And comparison is forced upon these kids.

Second, we're talking about a kid who gets great grades, makes honor roll, and receives awards for excellence in a couple areas where they really excel. That kid is not academically average. They are only average if you are only looking at the subset of kids who actually care about and work at academics, which is not the majority of kids. That kid is above average academically. They may not be a superstar, but hey aren't "average." An average kid is getting some Bs and Cs, doesn't always do their homework, but gets by and is going to graduate. They aren't winning writing awards and studying earth sciences in their free time in 10th grade.

And yes, average is okay. But when you tell a kid who is clearly academically inclined and hard working (if not some kind of genius or superstar, but clearly smart and disciplined) they are just average, what does that make the actually average kids? Some of you have no sense of perspective about all of this. You really and truly believe that if a kid isn't getting a 1600 on the SAT and getting admitted to the tippy top schools, they are just average and need to just suck it up and deal. No wonder the college boards are constantly in full meltdown mode -- your standards are psychotic.

It’s not word salad and you seem to be incapable of realizing that comparison is silly entirely squares with the concept that some people are better and some worse than you - this will always be true and so worrying about it, being surprised at the fact, and engaging in comparing is silly. It’s safe to assume some people are smarter and some less than. That’s the point. I can’t help you anymore with this concept.

You are determined to frame it as a hierarchy though, and it's not. It's not even accurate to say that the kids at the tippy top are smarter than those a little below them. Some would argue it's smarter to invest more energy in things you love and not put all your energy and effort into getting into a super competitive college, where even incredibly high achieving kids are regularly rejected. Other people will argue that it's the kids who are good enough academically while really developing soft skills who are "smartest" because while top grades and test scores can get you into good colleges, they will not on their own get you great jobs or promotions. And so on. There are many, many kinds of smart, and the way you avoid the comparison game is not by ranking everyone and making peace with your rank, but understanding any ranking is only going to measure people along one or a handful of metrics, and it's not the be all and end all.

You seem determined or simply incapable of understanding that for some, and this is true at my kids private “top three” in DC - the kids that do the very very best are not killing themselves. They are well rounded, play sports and are simply exceptional. There are exceptional people. That’s simply a truism. Accepting that isn’t harmful. For example, Gisele exists. Most of us are not even in her remote realm. Fighting that is simply just pointless.

Wut

[Anonymous]

This is a crazy thought, but could you just skip awards night? If she won anything, the award would still exist. If she doesn't win anything, she doesn't have to use her time and mental energy toward giving attention to others who are already getting plenty of it.

For a long time I went along of the idea that being a good member of a community or a good sport means that you celebrate others no matter what. At some point it's ok to draw the line and go out to dinner as a family instead.

[Anonymous]

I don’t get this.

I went to a fancy law school. I didn’t clerk at the Supreme Court.

I have a great job. I’ve never been on some 40 under 40 list or gotten an award from the mayor or networked with a billionaire investor or anything.

It is what it is so you and your kid better get used to it now. You can do great work and someone else will do an even better one. You need to learn what’s enough and be comfortable in your own skin or you’ll drive yourself crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, the reality is - and you’re not going to like this - some of those kids are just smarter. They don’t have to work as hard. Particularly the ones also excelling at sports. They aren’t “winning” because they’re doing so much more. This isn’t all of those kids, but a chunk. The lesson is that there is always going to be someone smarter than you, better than you, richer than you, someone less smart, less gifted, less affluent. Comparison is silly. Success is not pie, someone having some doesn’t mean you can’t have any. Sure it may for these honors right now, but not in any big picture sense. Let her make peace with being average. Average is okay.

This is weird DCUM word salad.

First, you are literally comparing students and saying some are smarter and then saying "comparison is silly." That's meaningless. If some kids are being recognized as better for certain skill sets, you can say "comparison is silly" until you are blue in the face and your kid will know you are lying because they live in a world where comparison is prevalent and meaningful. Yes, their world is narrow right now. It still exists. And comparison is forced upon these kids.

Second, we're talking about a kid who gets great grades, makes honor roll, and receives awards for excellence in a couple areas where they really excel. That kid is not academically average. They are only average if you are only looking at the subset of kids who actually care about and work at academics, which is not the majority of kids. That kid is above average academically. They may not be a superstar, but hey aren't "average." An average kid is getting some Bs and Cs, doesn't always do their homework, but gets by and is going to graduate. They aren't winning writing awards and studying earth sciences in their free time in 10th grade.

And yes, average is okay. But when you tell a kid who is clearly academically inclined and hard working (if not some kind of genius or superstar, but clearly smart and disciplined) they are just average, what does that make the actually average kids? Some of you have no sense of perspective about all of this. You really and truly believe that if a kid isn't getting a 1600 on the SAT and getting admitted to the tippy top schools, they are just average and need to just suck it up and deal. No wonder the college boards are constantly in full meltdown mode -- your standards are psychotic.

It’s not word salad and you seem to be incapable of realizing that comparison is silly entirely squares with the concept that some people are better and some worse than you - this will always be true and so worrying about it, being surprised at the fact, and engaging in comparing is silly. It’s safe to assume some people are smarter and some less than. That’s the point. I can’t help you anymore with this concept.

You are determined to frame it as a hierarchy though, and it's not. It's not even accurate to say that the kids at the tippy top are smarter than those a little below them. Some would argue it's smarter to invest more energy in things you love and not put all your energy and effort into getting into a super competitive college, where even incredibly high achieving kids are regularly rejected. Other people will argue that it's the kids who are good enough academically while really developing soft skills who are "smartest" because while top grades and test scores can get you into good colleges, they will not on their own get you great jobs or promotions. And so on. There are many, many kinds of smart, and the way you avoid the comparison game is not by ranking everyone and making peace with your rank, but understanding any ranking is only going to measure people along one or a handful of metrics, and it's not the be all and end all.

You seem determined or simply incapable of understanding that for some, and this is true at my kids private “top three” in DC - the kids that do the very very best are not killing themselves. They are well rounded, play sports and are simply exceptional. There are exceptional people. That’s simply a truism. Accepting that isn’t harmful. For example, Gisele exists. Most of us are not even in her remote realm. Fighting that is simply just pointless.

Logic is not your strong suit, I guess.

Yes, Gisele exists. She is very beautiful. She is a very successful model. Tom Brady exists. He was arguably the best NFL quarterback of all time. Do you think either of them would rank in the top academically at your kids' "top three" (lol) private school? No? So it's like there are different ways people can excel in life, and being valedictorian of your high school class dies t not mean you are "Best Person" forever? Oh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, the reality is - and you’re not going to like this - some of those kids are just smarter. They don’t have to work as hard. Particularly the ones also excelling at sports. They aren’t “winning” because they’re doing so much more. This isn’t all of those kids, but a chunk. The lesson is that there is always going to be someone smarter than you, better than you, richer than you, someone less smart, less gifted, less affluent. Comparison is silly. Success is not pie, someone having some doesn’t mean you can’t have any. Sure it may for these honors right now, but not in any big picture sense. Let her make peace with being average. Average is okay.

This is weird DCUM word salad.

First, you are literally comparing students and saying some are smarter and then saying "comparison is silly." That's meaningless. If some kids are being recognized as better for certain skill sets, you can say "comparison is silly" until you are blue in the face and your kid will know you are lying because they live in a world where comparison is prevalent and meaningful. Yes, their world is narrow right now. It still exists. And comparison is forced upon these kids.

Second, we're talking about a kid who gets great grades, makes honor roll, and receives awards for excellence in a couple areas where they really excel. That kid is not academically average. They are only average if you are only looking at the subset of kids who actually care about and work at academics, which is not the majority of kids. That kid is above average academically. They may not be a superstar, but hey aren't "average." An average kid is getting some Bs and Cs, doesn't always do their homework, but gets by and is going to graduate. They aren't winning writing awards and studying earth sciences in their free time in 10th grade.

And yes, average is okay. But when you tell a kid who is clearly academically inclined and hard working (if not some kind of genius or superstar, but clearly smart and disciplined) they are just average, what does that make the actually average kids? Some of you have no sense of perspective about all of this. You really and truly believe that if a kid isn't getting a 1600 on the SAT and getting admitted to the tippy top schools, they are just average and need to just suck it up and deal. No wonder the college boards are constantly in full meltdown mode -- your standards are psychotic.

It’s not word salad and you seem to be incapable of realizing that comparison is silly entirely squares with the concept that some people are better and some worse than you - this will always be true and so worrying about it, being surprised at the fact, and engaging in comparing is silly. It’s safe to assume some people are smarter and some less than. That’s the point. I can’t help you anymore with this concept.

You are determined to frame it as a hierarchy though, and it's not. It's not even accurate to say that the kids at the tippy top are smarter than those a little below them. Some would argue it's smarter to invest more energy in things you love and not put all your energy and effort into getting into a super competitive college, where even incredibly high achieving kids are regularly rejected. Other people will argue that it's the kids who are good enough academically while really developing soft skills who are "smartest" because while top grades and test scores can get you into good colleges, they will not on their own get you great jobs or promotions. And so on. There are many, many kinds of smart, and the way you avoid the comparison game is not by ranking everyone and making peace with your rank, but understanding any ranking is only going to measure people along one or a handful of metrics, and it's not the be all and end all.

You seem determined or simply incapable of understanding that for some, and this is true at my kids private “top three” in DC - the kids that do the very very best are not killing themselves. They are well rounded, play sports and are simply exceptional. There are exceptional people. That’s simply a truism. Accepting that isn’t harmful. For example, Gisele exists. Most of us are not even in her remote realm. Fighting that is simply just pointless.

Logic is not your strong suit, I guess.

Yes, Gisele exists. She is very beautiful. She is a very successful model. Tom Brady exists. He was arguably the best NFL quarterback of all time. Do you think either of them would rank in the top academically at your kids' "top three" (lol) private school? No? So it's like there are different ways people can excel in life, and being valedictorian of your high school class dies t not mean you are "Best Person" forever? Oh.

The above pp didn’t say that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, the reality is - and you’re not going to like this - some of those kids are just smarter. They don’t have to work as hard. Particularly the ones also excelling at sports. They aren’t “winning” because they’re doing so much more. This isn’t all of those kids, but a chunk. The lesson is that there is always going to be someone smarter than you, better than you, richer than you, someone less smart, less gifted, less affluent. Comparison is silly. Success is not pie, someone having some doesn’t mean you can’t have any. Sure it may for these honors right now, but not in any big picture sense. Let her make peace with being average. Average is okay.

This is weird DCUM word salad.

First, you are literally comparing students and saying some are smarter and then saying "comparison is silly." That's meaningless. If some kids are being recognized as better for certain skill sets, you can say "comparison is silly" until you are blue in the face and your kid will know you are lying because they live in a world where comparison is prevalent and meaningful. Yes, their world is narrow right now. It still exists. And comparison is forced upon these kids.

Second, we're talking about a kid who gets great grades, makes honor roll, and receives awards for excellence in a couple areas where they really excel. That kid is not academically average. They are only average if you are only looking at the subset of kids who actually care about and work at academics, which is not the majority of kids. That kid is above average academically. They may not be a superstar, but hey aren't "average." An average kid is getting some Bs and Cs, doesn't always do their homework, but gets by and is going to graduate. They aren't winning writing awards and studying earth sciences in their free time in 10th grade.

And yes, average is okay. But when you tell a kid who is clearly academically inclined and hard working (if not some kind of genius or superstar, but clearly smart and disciplined) they are just average, what does that make the actually average kids? Some of you have no sense of perspective about all of this. You really and truly believe that if a kid isn't getting a 1600 on the SAT and getting admitted to the tippy top schools, they are just average and need to just suck it up and deal. No wonder the college boards are constantly in full meltdown mode -- your standards are psychotic.

It’s not word salad and you seem to be incapable of realizing that comparison is silly entirely squares with the concept that some people are better and some worse than you - this will always be true and so worrying about it, being surprised at the fact, and engaging in comparing is silly. It’s safe to assume some people are smarter and some less than. That’s the point. I can’t help you anymore with this concept.

You are determined to frame it as a hierarchy though, and it's not. It's not even accurate to say that the kids at the tippy top are smarter than those a little below them. Some would argue it's smarter to invest more energy in things you love and not put all your energy and effort into getting into a super competitive college, where even incredibly high achieving kids are regularly rejected. Other people will argue that it's the kids who are good enough academically while really developing soft skills who are "smartest" because while top grades and test scores can get you into good colleges, they will not on their own get you great jobs or promotions. And so on. There are many, many kinds of smart, and the way you avoid the comparison game is not by ranking everyone and making peace with your rank, but understanding any ranking is only going to measure people along one or a handful of metrics, and it's not the be all and end all.

You seem determined or simply incapable of understanding that for some, and this is true at my kids private “top three” in DC - the kids that do the very very best are not killing themselves. They are well rounded, play sports and are simply exceptional. There are exceptional people. That’s simply a truism. Accepting that isn’t harmful. For example, Gisele exists. Most of us are not even in her remote realm. Fighting that is simply just pointless.

Logic is not your strong suit, I guess.

Yes, Gisele exists. She is very beautiful. She is a very successful model. Tom Brady exists. He was arguably the best NFL quarterback of all time. Do you think either of them would rank in the top academically at your kids' "top three" (lol) private school? No? So it's like there are different ways people can excel in life, and being valedictorian of your high school class dies t not mean you are "Best Person" forever? Oh.

Oh, dear. There is no helping you here. There are indeed different ways to be exceptional. But not everyone is. Many of us are just average. And that is okay. Being upset that some are exceptional and insisting it’s because they are not well rounded or work all the time and you would be there too if you weren’t so totally cool and more better at doing life is silly and petty. It’s not the case and it’s far better to focus on yourself and what you want to achieve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get some perspective OP. Some of us have smart but learning disabled kids who are never even going to be sure our kids will go to college at all. Your daughter can cope with not being THE star. So can you. Literally do not give it another thought.

The whole point of this thread is helping a kid cope with not being the star. Like that's the whole premise -- help me help my kid see that where they are at right now is great and they don't need to worry about these other kids who are winning awards. At no point did anyone in this thread say anything to put down kids who don't go to college, or to make kids or parents of kids who struggle to do well academically feel bad.

You are the one who needs perspective here.

way to miss the point

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, the reality is - and you’re not going to like this - some of those kids are just smarter. They don’t have to work as hard. Particularly the ones also excelling at sports. They aren’t “winning” because they’re doing so much more. This isn’t all of those kids, but a chunk. The lesson is that there is always going to be someone smarter than you, better than you, richer than you, someone less smart, less gifted, less affluent. Comparison is silly. Success is not pie, someone having some doesn’t mean you can’t have any. Sure it may for these honors right now, but not in any big picture sense. Let her make peace with being average. Average is okay.

This is weird DCUM word salad.

First, you are literally comparing students and saying some are smarter and then saying "comparison is silly." That's meaningless. If some kids are being recognized as better for certain skill sets, you can say "comparison is silly" until you are blue in the face and your kid will know you are lying because they live in a world where comparison is prevalent and meaningful. Yes, their world is narrow right now. It still exists. And comparison is forced upon these kids.

Second, we're talking about a kid who gets great grades, makes honor roll, and receives awards for excellence in a couple areas where they really excel. That kid is not academically average. They are only average if you are only looking at the subset of kids who actually care about and work at academics, which is not the majority of kids. That kid is above average academically. They may not be a superstar, but hey aren't "average." An average kid is getting some Bs and Cs, doesn't always do their homework, but gets by and is going to graduate. They aren't winning writing awards and studying earth sciences in their free time in 10th grade.

And yes, average is okay. But when you tell a kid who is clearly academically inclined and hard working (if not some kind of genius or superstar, but clearly smart and disciplined) they are just average, what does that make the actually average kids? Some of you have no sense of perspective about all of this. You really and truly believe that if a kid isn't getting a 1600 on the SAT and getting admitted to the tippy top schools, they are just average and need to just suck it up and deal. No wonder the college boards are constantly in full meltdown mode -- your standards are psychotic.

THANK YOU

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a disconnect for me here. Your DD is not actively gunning to be at the tippy top, yet she is upset that she's not at the tippy top?
Ummmmmmmm....

OP here. She isn't mad she's not at the tippy top. She has made a choice to approach school in a different way and is happy with her choice. She just gets down because sometimes it's hard to see classmates honored and awarded for their choices, and not get that same validation.

There is no award for "most well rounded student" or "student synthesizing some themes from Moby Dick into a pretty cool art project" or "read and understood the most unassigned science books." Individual teachers might recognize that stuff (sometimes, sometimes they don't), but there are no trophies for those kinds of things. My kid is on a different path than the more competitive kids who are gunning for Ivy admission and other very visible rewards (though she does have straight As). I think a lot of the time, she just does her thing and it's fine. She's just struggling with the end of the year awards where a kid like her doesn't get much attention, even though she's worked very hard over the course of the year, just in ways that don't result in academic awards. That's it. She's not mad she's not at the tippy top, she's just sad that in not being at the tippy top, she feels kind of invisible at the moment.

1. Green is ugly color on her.

2. People who are obsessed with awards collapse hard when the awards stop coming after age 18 or 22. The awards only exist to motivate kids who lack internal motivation. (Some internally motivated kids mop of the awards anyway.) The people who *want* the awards don't matter. The awards don't matter. Your daughter is ahead of the game if she has an internal compass. Better, in fact, if she's not even playing the game, and living a life instead.
I have a shelf full of high end trophies to arrest to this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's a reason they say the silver medalist is always the least happy.

The gold medalist is thrilled. The bronze medalist is just happy to make the podium. The silver medalist is unhappy they didn't get gold.

Except Gulden's mustard!

"Number 2 - and that ain't bad!'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, the reality is - and you’re not going to like this - some of those kids are just smarter. They don’t have to work as hard. Particularly the ones also excelling at sports. They aren’t “winning” because they’re doing so much more. This isn’t all of those kids, but a chunk. The lesson is that there is always going to be someone smarter than you, better than you, richer than you, someone less smart, less gifted, less affluent. Comparison is silly. Success is not pie, someone having some doesn’t mean you can’t have any. Sure it may for these honors right now, but not in any big picture sense. Let her make peace with being average. Average is okay.

This is weird DCUM word salad.

First, you are literally comparing students and saying some are smarter and then saying "comparison is silly." That's meaningless. If some kids are being recognized as better for certain skill sets, you can say "comparison is silly" until you are blue in the face and your kid will know you are lying because they live in a world where comparison is prevalent and meaningful. Yes, their world is narrow right now. It still exists. And comparison is forced upon these kids.

Second, we're talking about a kid who gets great grades, makes honor roll, and receives awards for excellence in a couple areas where they really excel. That kid is not academically average. They are only average if you are only looking at the subset of kids who actually care about and work at academics, which is not the majority of kids. That kid is above average academically. They may not be a superstar, but hey aren't "average." An average kid is getting some Bs and Cs, doesn't always do their homework, but gets by and is going to graduate. They aren't winning writing awards and studying earth sciences in their free time in 10th grade.

And yes, average is okay. But when you tell a kid who is clearly academically inclined and hard working (if not some kind of genius or superstar, but clearly smart and disciplined) they are just average, what does that make the actually average kids? Some of you have no sense of perspective about all of this. You really and truly believe that if a kid isn't getting a 1600 on the SAT and getting admitted to the tippy top schools, they are just average and need to just suck it up and deal. No wonder the college boards are constantly in full meltdown mode -- your standards are psychotic.

It’s not word salad and you seem to be incapable of realizing that comparison is silly entirely squares with the concept that some people are better and some worse than you - this will always be true and so worrying about it, being surprised at the fact, and engaging in comparing is silly. It’s safe to assume some people are smarter and some less than. That’s the point. I can’t help you anymore with this concept.

Regarding the bolded, the reason it doesn't square is that from the kid's perspective it won't make sense. Comparison happens whether kids want it to or not. They compete for a spot on the soccer team or a role in the school play or certain academic awards. They will be in competition for college admissions, too. That is their reality. Telling a child in that environment "comparison is silly" will sound incredibly dumb to them because the comparison is happening and it has a real impact on stuff that matters a lot to them in this moment. It will just confuse them or make things worse because now instead of thinking "Sally is smarter than I am and that makes me feel bad" they will also think "oh and I'm dumb for even noticing this and caring about it." Even though their response is actually normal and they need to learn how to work through those feelings, not pretend they don't even exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a disconnect for me here. Your DD is not actively gunning to be at the tippy top, yet she is upset that she's not at the tippy top?
Ummmmmmmm....

OP here. She isn't mad she's not at the tippy top. She has made a choice to approach school in a different way and is happy with her choice. She just gets down because sometimes it's hard to see classmates honored and awarded for their choices, and not get that same validation.

There is no award for "most well rounded student" or "student synthesizing some themes from Moby Dick into a pretty cool art project" or "read and understood the most unassigned science books." Individual teachers might recognize that stuff (sometimes, sometimes they don't), but there are no trophies for those kinds of things. My kid is on a different path than the more competitive kids who are gunning for Ivy admission and other very visible rewards (though she does have straight As). I think a lot of the time, she just does her thing and it's fine. She's just struggling with the end of the year awards where a kid like her doesn't get much attention, even though she's worked very hard over the course of the year, just in ways that don't result in academic awards. That's it. She's not mad she's not at the tippy top, she's just sad that in not being at the tippy top, she feels kind of invisible at the moment.

1. Green is ugly color on her.

2. People who are obsessed with awards collapse hard when the awards stop coming after age 18 or 22. The awards only exist to motivate kids who lack internal motivation. (Some internally motivated kids mop of the awards anyway.) The people who *want* the awards don't matter. The awards don't matter. Your daughter is ahead of the game if she has an internal compass. Better, in fact, if she's not even playing the game, and living a life instead.
I have a shelf full of high end trophies to arrest to this.

The "awards" don't stop coming after the age 18 or 22. There are pretty well defined metrics of success in most fields, and, if nothing else, you can also compare money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's a disconnect for me here. Your DD is not actively gunning to be at the tippy top, yet she is upset that she's not at the tippy top?
Ummmmmmmm....

OP here. She isn't mad she's not at the tippy top. She has made a choice to approach school in a different way and is happy with her choice. She just gets down because sometimes it's hard to see classmates honored and awarded for their choices, and not get that same validation.

There is no award for "most well rounded student" or "student synthesizing some themes from Moby Dick into a pretty cool art project" or "read and understood the most unassigned science books." Individual teachers might recognize that stuff (sometimes, sometimes they don't), but there are no trophies for those kinds of things. My kid is on a different path than the more competitive kids who are gunning for Ivy admission and other very visible rewards (though she does have straight As). I think a lot of the time, she just does her thing and it's fine. She's just struggling with the end of the year awards where a kid like her doesn't .

Our school has awards like that. Teachers nominate their students for various things like Book Awards and Art Awards and I don’t remember but it wasn’t an award night for the top GPAs. They don’t keep track but I’m sure some of them got awards too. They also included students in the middle of the pack or in the learning center who had an impressive year.